Ryan Braun

[JosephC]

Since I made a post 10 days ago Braun's OPS has dropped from .863 down to .819 and among qualifiers would now rank 57th (down from 36th) out of 146. Nearly 40% of league qualifiers rank above him. Braun doesn't have the look of still being a "special" hitter, at least how I would define special.

 

What is interesting is the guy who sits right above him in OPS.

 

Puig = .260/.340/.480/.820, Fangraphs WAR = 2.6, Baseball Reference WAR = 3.4

Braun = .267/.336/.483/.819, Fangraphs WAR = 1.4, Baseball Reference WAR = 1.1

[lcbj68c]

The remaining 3 years of his contract has albatross written all over it. Maybe we try and move him this offseason?

 

I don't understand the hand-wringing and complaining that goes on around here regarding Ryan Braun's $60M owed on his contract. Almost as if the contract was a poor one from the start. Were these same folks complaining when Ryan Braun was putting up top numbers while earning 380k in 2007, 455k in 2008, 745k in 2009, $4m in 2011 and so forth? How can one complain about the contract being an albatross when during a majority of the contract, it allowed the Brewers to compete somewhat and pay other players while other stars at the same time were earning far north of $10M, per year. I'm thinking contracts like Pujols, Josh Hamilton, etc. I think any amount that Ryan Braun is "overpaid" over the final 3-4 years of his deal was far worth the money saved during his first 10 seasons.

[pacopete4]

It’s mostly a talking point for anyone that doesn’t like him due to his actions a few years back. Nothing more to it really. Is what it is.

[MrTPlush]

It’s mostly a talking point for anyone that doesn’t like him due to his actions a few years back. Nothing more to it really. Is what it is.

 

Actually wrong. Don't generalize. If you want to generalize why I think something I will generalize that everyone who thinks that deal is anywhere near acceptable has blinding fandom for Braun that is brighter than the sun.

 

Regarding the above comment explaining how his pre arby years were cheap makes no sense. Just because we got a good deal to start doesn't mean we shrug our shoulders when we voluntarily resign a 30+ year old to a contract that turns sour. It was questionable at best to resign him so early and it is proving to be a mistake. Whatever makes you feel better I guess.

 

The real problem is the fact we could have gotten out of a contract that was already going south and opted not to. Now it has fallen of a cliff this year and who knows if it gets better.

[SomewhereInTime]

The remaining 3 years of his contract has albatross written all over it. Maybe we try and move him this offseason?

 

I don't understand the hand-wringing and complaining that goes on around here regarding Ryan Braun's $60M owed on his contract. Almost as if the contract was a poor one from the start. Were these same folks complaining when Ryan Braun was putting up top numbers while earning 380k in 2007, 455k in 2008, 745k in 2009, $4m in 2011 and so forth? How can one complain about the contract being an albatross when during a majority of the contract, it allowed the Brewers to compete somewhat and pay other players while other stars at the same time were earning far north of $10M, per year. I'm thinking contracts like Pujols, Josh Hamilton, etc. I think any amount that Ryan Braun is "overpaid" over the final 3-4 years of his deal was far worth the money saved during his first 10 seasons.

 

And on top of that, it's not like he's a bad player, last season was an excellent year for him, and this year he's been an above average hitter.

[pacopete4]

It’s mostly a talking point for anyone that doesn’t like him due to his actions a few years back. Nothing more to it really. Is what it is.

 

Actually wrong. Don't generalize. If you want to generalize why I think something I will generalize that everyone who thinks that deal is anywhere near acceptable has blinding fandom for Braun that is brighter than the sun.

 

The word mostly was used. It wasn’t as blanketed of a statement as you are making it out to being. Most of the hate comes from his past mistake(s). The economics of it are another thing but for the most part Braun hasn’t stopped the Brewers from doing really anything they want. If they thought he was going to, they would’ve pulled the trigger on that trade last year. Actually by Braun taking just contract, he may have saved us from signing Fielder to that ridiculous contract he got.

[MrTPlush]

The remaining 3 years of his contract has albatross written all over it. Maybe we try and move him this offseason?

 

I don't understand the hand-wringing and complaining that goes on around here regarding Ryan Braun's $60M owed on his contract. Almost as if the contract was a poor one from the start. Were these same folks complaining when Ryan Braun was putting up top numbers while earning 380k in 2007, 455k in 2008, 745k in 2009, $4m in 2011 and so forth? How can one complain about the contract being an albatross when during a majority of the contract, it allowed the Brewers to compete somewhat and pay other players while other stars at the same time were earning far north of $10M, per year. I'm thinking contracts like Pujols, Josh Hamilton, etc. I think any amount that Ryan Braun is "overpaid" over the final 3-4 years of his deal was far worth the money saved during his first 10 seasons.

 

And on top of that, it's not like he's a bad player, last season was an excellent year for him, and this year he's been an above average hitter.

 

And below average on defense. So yippee we payed an average player $20mil.

[lcbj68c]

It’s mostly a talking point for anyone that doesn’t like him due to his actions a few years back. Nothing more to it really. Is what it is.

 

Seems like a truthful take.

[lcbj68c]

 

And below average on defense. So yippee we payed an average player $20mil.

 

This is what I'm talking about. "Yippee, you got MVP numbers in 2011 for $4M."

[adambr2]

It’s mostly a talking point for anyone that doesn’t like him due to his actions a few years back. Nothing more to it really. Is what it is.

 

Seems like a truthful take.

 

Not really. Any player who makes a lot of money and isn't that productive gets similar treatment from fans. See Garza, Matt. That part doesn't have anything to do with PEDs.

 

Braun is still a better player than Garza, to be sure, but yeah for me it's more about the fact that he's a 1 and a half win player that people still talk about like he's something special.

[SomewhereInTime]

"And below average on defense. So yippee we payed an average player $20mil."

 

And last year he had an excellent season, worth more than the 20mil he was paid.

[MrTPlush]

 

And below average on defense. So yippee we payed an average player $20mil.

 

This is what I'm talking about. "Yippee, you got MVP numbers in 2011 for $4M."

 

Yah that was great and a totally different contract. You can't make any comparison there.

[adambr2]

I can't understand at all the argument at all that if a player is underpaid at some point, it's fine if he's overpaid later because he earned more than his salary then in production.

 

To me that's total nonsense and strange rationalizing. 2007-12 (especially since most of those were pre-arby years), has absolutely nothing to do with now. No one is arguing that Braun was overpaid 6 years ago. By that logic we might as well go ahead and give Lucroy a nice 3 year $75M contract in free agency, since we'll still come out well ahead given what he gave us over the years.

[tmwiese55]

Albatross would be a better word if he was awful, like hitting 235 or something. Yea he didn't perform to 20mil per year this year, not denying that or anything. But he was still a competent good player and put up ok numbers with a ton of bad luck holding back his offensive stats. I am worried about the cold streak in late August and the last 2 weeks or so of the year, that's like nothing we've ever seen from him before. But as some said, he's 33/34 now so a bit expected.

 

To the points about the good contract earlier not making up for the bad of the contract now, I see your point and all but you're ignoring that it was negotiated and structured this way. Like they could have moved a few mil from now and the next 3 years up to earlier in the deal and the now he'd be making something like 13 mil per year and it wouldn't look so bad. Sure I agree on the second extension being a general mistake but who could have foreseen the injuries he's had to deal with (along with ped stuff not allowing him to deal with those injuries).

 

I suppose I might seem too soft on him, maybe I am, but mostly I'm just saying that if you take this year and extrapolate to a full year 270/340 with 25 hr and 80 or so RBI would be the least of our problem. Of course it's not worth 20 mil but it's still not some liability like it's being talked about here, especially with the current salary structure of the team (which is likely why they structured his deal like they did). The main thing about him is health, it's that simple. If he can play 140ish games instead of 100 that's what you need to make the contract about 'fine'. Hopefully he can do that next year and soon after they put the DH in for the NL

[pacopete4]

I'd tell Braun he can waive his no trade or sit on the bench. I'd like to see the youngsters in the OF for 2018. We have plenty of them who need playing time.

 

Can't he just retire for his own health or something? One can dream. I'm kind of sick watching someone swing helplessly at the plate half the time because of some injury. If we DLed him when we probably should I am not even sure he would play in half our games. This year he started just 95 games in the field...

 

I wouldn't be totally shocked if the Brewers got more aggressive in sitting him due to injury next year and DLed him more often. Lewis Brinson would outperform this years Braun on defense alone.

 

I guess we will see how next year goes. If he is injured this often and playing crippled half the time when he actually does play they need to figure something out for the future.

 

Since this was in another thread that really didn't fit, I thought I would move it here. Why can't Braun coexist with Brinson, Phillips, and Santana? Did he have rough patches this year? Sure. But if he wasn't struck by some really bad luck you can tack on about 20 points to that BA and all of a sudden his line looks that much more like Ryan Braun. That advanced stats are out there to prove he was hitting the ball harder than he has at any other part of his career. That is impressive considering the injuries that he went through. He finished the season playing just about every game for us. Hopefully, the injury is past him and he can be a huge reason why we are still in the mix next season.

 

There are about 1800 at-bats a year to our OF positions (3.7 AB's per game * 3 * 162) plus another 40 from interleague play (DH). If you take 1840 and divide it by 4 players you are looking at 460 at-bats per player in an all equal scenario. Now, we have to consider Braun possibly being injured or any of our other outfielders. Santana seems to need days off here and there and Brinson (the guy we should really be worried about) seems to be injured pretty frequently.

 

With having a guy like Perez on the roster along with Brinson and Phillips, you have three guys that can play all three outfield positions. That covers enough to where Braun and Santana's lack of position flexibility doesn't really affect anything. Just feels like this problem should be the least of our concerns and that it could be a real strength having four players who are competent in their own ways for our three OF positions. (Sorry I did not include Broxton, just don't want to see him back next year. Doesn't get on base, questionable D, and strikes out too often. We have enough of that)

[3and2Fastball]

Braun did have a .871 OPS vs LHP in 2017. He still has value.

[MrTPlush]

I'd tell Braun he can waive his no trade or sit on the bench. I'd like to see the youngsters in the OF for 2018. We have plenty of them who need playing time.

 

Can't he just retire for his own health or something? One can dream. I'm kind of sick watching someone swing helplessly at the plate half the time because of some injury. If we DLed him when we probably should I am not even sure he would play in half our games. This year he started just 95 games in the field...

 

I wouldn't be totally shocked if the Brewers got more aggressive in sitting him due to injury next year and DLed him more often. Lewis Brinson would outperform this years Braun on defense alone.

 

I guess we will see how next year goes. If he is injured this often and playing crippled half the time when he actually does play they need to figure something out for the future.

 

Since this was in another thread that really didn't fit, I thought I would move it here. Why can't Braun coexist with Brinson, Phillips, and Santana?

 

He can and not saying it won't happen. If we assume Ryan Braun is quite similar next year as he was this year that creates a lot of problems. Neither Phillips nor Brinson would have to hit much to match that kind of production. If you negate Ryan Braun to the #4 role it could work out fine. It just would suck because Ryan Braun can only play LF. Though that wouldn't be a large problem if two of our OFers are Brinson/Phillips. One can just shift over from LF to CF/RF to replace someone not in the line-up.

 

Really what I was getting at is if things don't prove the Brewers have to be committed to taking their $20mil former MVP man and putting him in a lesser role. Which is easier said than done sometimes. Ryan Braun already missed a solid 70 or so games this year in the field. That already gives Brinson/Phillips lots of ABs before taking into consideration other missed time in the OF. A four man rotation already seems inevitable next year.

[buckybrewer232]

Braun did have a .871 OPS vs LHP in 2017. He still has value.

 

He does have value now, which is why they should try trading him this offseason. What concerns me the most is Braun in '19 & '20. His defense is bad and only going to get worse, his bat isn't what it used to be, and we all know of his injury history. What will he look like in a couple years at 35-36 years old?

 

'19, '20 and beyond the Brewers could really be entering their competitive window IMO and I worry they could have a useless Braun at that time taking up $15 mil on the payroll. If some team is willing to take him on now, even if nothing comes back in return I would probably jump on it. It makes even more sense for the Brewers considering the clogged OF.

 

Highly doubt it happens, though.

[pacopete4]

Even if Braun plays his 130-135 games, he will get around 480-490 at bats. There will be plenty of opportunities for the other guys to get theirs. Seems like a non issue right now. Maybe in the future it becomes one but I just don't see it next season.

[bork]

The season ends and then we find out again that Braun was playing hurt. Hadn't heard about the wrist until now.

 

A left calf injury forced two stints on the disabled list in May before Braun's right wrist became the problem by July. He had a cortisone shot at the All-Star break, then quietly fought through irritation for most of the second half, impacting his ability to drive the baseball.

 

http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/257039266/brewers-ryan-braun-looks-back-on-2017-season/

[wildcat2237]

The season ends and then we find out again that Braun was playing hurt. Hadn't heard about the wrist until now.

 

A left calf injury forced two stints on the disabled list in May before Braun's right wrist became the problem by July. He had a cortisone shot at the All-Star break, then quietly fought through irritation for most of the second half, impacting his ability to drive the baseball.

 

http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/257039266/brewers-ryan-braun-looks-back-on-2017-season/

 

This new information brings forth three possibilities.

 

1. Braun could get healthy in the off-season and be productive in 2018.

 

2. Braun has aged poorly, will get injured again in 2018, and his career might be about done.

 

3. A $20 million 4th outfielder sucks, but maybe the Brewers need to utilize Braun as their #4 outfielder. This would limit his time in the field and hopefully keep him healthy. He could be used as a pinch hitter in key situations. If used properly, like Jesus Aguilar this year, he could be a key contributor.

[wildcat2237]

Braun did have a .871 OPS vs LHP in 2017. He still has value.

 

He does have value now, which is why they should try trading him this offseason. What concerns me the most is Braun in '19 & '20. His defense is bad and only going to get worse, his bat isn't what it used to be, and we all know of his injury history. What will he look like in a couple years at 35-36 years old?

 

'19, '20 and beyond the Brewers could really be entering their competitive window IMO and I worry they could have a useless Braun at that time taking up $15 mil on the payroll. If some team is willing to take him on now, even if nothing comes back in return I would probably jump on it. It makes even more sense for the Brewers considering the clogged OF.

 

Highly doubt it happens, though.

 

As others have said, I think that window closed on August 31, 2016.

 

The only way the Brewers trade Braun now is if they eat 80% of his salary.

[tmwiese55]

You wouldn't make him a 4th OF. If healthy he's still a very good hitter. Health is the key with him, it's that simple. You'd be a fool to sit his bat on the bench if healthy other than the normal maintenance keep fresh days like they've been doing the last few years. Now, if you have both Brinson and Phillips up and doing well next year then you don't need to force Braun out there if hurt like apparently they did second half this year. You just toss him on the 10 day and let him re-charge and keep asking the commissioner when the DH is coming to the NL.

 

As other have said above, for next year this doesn't seem to confusing or any kind of a problem. You have 4 guys, two of which make a perfect platoon in CF but are rookies so you can't fully trust yet and it could be good to bring them along without as much pressure. Then have Brinson get 1-2 games each week for Braun and here or there for Santana. It actually all seems to come together really well for next year and because no other OFs are banging down the wall yet. Come 2019 though if both rookies show well next year and Braun is oft-injured again then you have some decisions to make.

 

An outside the box team to ask him about being traded to is Boston imo. Contender every year and he can DH, he could slot in really well with them.

 

ETA: think if you jettison him for nothing. You'd be starting two rookies, one who's been just as injury prone as him. If one is hurt (which it's tough to make a whole with all 3 OF not getting hurt) and/or just doesn't do well. Then all of a sudden you're starting Perez every day in OF or some castoff like Kirk or Sogard. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Braun, it's not my 20 mil. Keep all 4 for next year and your OF is set and deep, ready to handle injuries or a rookie not living up to hype.

[jerichoholicninja]

With the amount of off days he needs to stay healthy and fresh he's basically a 3b outfielder. And that's fine.

[pacopete4]

Again, Braun will be fine in the mix because Brinson can't stay healthy either. He won't be a 162 games type of a guy and probably won't even be reliable as Braun has been for most of his career.

 

Brinson's Injuries:

-26 days on the minor league DL in May 2014

-36 days in May-June 2015

-34 days between two stints in 2016

-30+ days in 2017.

 

Brinson has played over 100 games three times (120 being the most) in six MILB seasons.

 

If we are talking about windows to trade someone, now might be the time on Lewis Brinson as he still has that Top prospect status.