2018 Bullpen

[liveforoctober]

I think there is pressure sometimes on managers, etc because if you have an established closer who you are paying a bazillion dollars ... the casual fan base and others will expect that guy to be in there to finish games and, in theory, that guy should be your most dominant reliever so your trust to put him in there is constant.

 

HOWEVER

 

With Knebel out this is a great experiment and I love that it has happened twice in a row now. The Brewers have multiple guys who can be dominant on a given night (Hader, JJ, Barnes, etc) As was mentioned above, if one of them comes in in the 8th and is throwing well (in theory that means he didn't throw a lot of pitches to get through the inning) ... don't burn another 'good' arm in the 9th. Let the guy finish and save the pen a bit.

 

I love the thought. Let's see if the practice proves the theory.

[benji]

Yes I am old enough to remember Rollie going 3 innings for saves. Makes a lot of sense I just hope these guys can handle this kind of workload through September.

 

 

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[FVBrewerFan]

Yes I am old enough to remember Rollie going 3 innings for saves. Makes a lot of sense I just hope these guys can handle this kind of workload through September.

 

I would guess pitching 2 innings every 2 or 3 days is better for the arm than pitching 1 inning in back to back games, 3 out of 4 games, etc.

 

Look at all the pitches thrown to warm-up, which don't get counted in the pitch count of course.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Yes I am old enough to remember Rollie going 3 innings for saves. Makes a lot of sense I just hope these guys can handle this kind of workload through September.

 

I would guess pitching 2 innings every 2 or 3 days is better for the arm than pitching 1 inning in back to back games, 3 out of 4 games, etc.

 

Look at all the pitches thrown to warm-up, which don't get counted in the pitch count of course.

 

 

I think we've reached a point where a lot of the guys have actually said that getting up, warming up, throwing in the BP, sitting down, geting up again, coming in, throwing on the mound, and pitching to 1-2 batters, is more taxing on the arm than warming up once, and throwing 2 innings.

 

Ned Yost used to do that... have guys get up multiple times during a game. It would drive me nuts. Like "man, that guy has pitched 60 innings this year, but I bet he has actually pitched the equivalent of 140 innings".

[Brewer Fever]

I think we've reached a point where a lot of the guys have actually said that getting up, warming up, throwing in the BP, sitting down, geting up again, coming in, throwing on the mound, and pitching to 1-2 batters, is more taxing on the arm than warming up once, and throwing 2 innings.

 

Ned Yost used to do that... have guys get up multiple times during a game. It would drive me nuts. Like "man, that guy has pitched 60 innings this year, but I bet he has actually pitched the equivalent of 140 innings".

 

It was Nedly who prompted the Russian Roulette analogy from me years ago. He would use 6 guys when it was apparent that 3 could have gotten them through 9 with the win. He'd inevitably bring in the guy who would implode at some point when it could have been avoided simply by sticking with the guys who were being effective.

[Mudville9]

http://milwaukee.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2018/04/19/everybody-loves-the-drake/

 

Did anyone see this? I know Drake catches a lot of flack here, but here is a positive spin. On the negative side, it sounds like he will be here forever....

[Outlander]

Trust the process with Drake, terrific.

[young guns]

"Oliver Drake should become a Brewers fan favorite: this is what a systemic arm looks like for the new, pitching-focused Brewers."

 

Shudder.

[istanbultaye]

I can understand a couple of the points in the article, but the fact is, Drake is one of the bottom arms in the pen, and he has rightfully been used in that fashion this year. He has some function in medium leverage situations as a lefty specialist, and mopping up some innings when behind or having a significant lead like last night. Considering his low salary, that's a-ok with me. We don't really need a young guy to fill a mop up role. Last year, he saw a few too many high leverage situations for all of our comfort levels, but the bullpen overall was not as strong as it is this year, so it seems like he isn't being miscast to a significant degree this year.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I am convinced that article was specifically written to rile up the posters here and on Brewer Twitter who aren't Drake fans. Isn't that author a regular on Brewers Twitter?

 

"Oliver Drake should become a Brewers fan favorite: this is what a systemic arm looks like for the new, pitching-focused Brewers."

 

Are we sure this isn't an Onion-esque tongue-in-cheek article?

[istanbultaye]

It might have been tongue-in-cheek, but it wasn't Onion-esque...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I can understand a couple of the points in the article, but the fact is, Drake is one of the bottom arms in the pen, and he has rightfully been used in that fashion this year. He has some function in medium leverage situations as a lefty specialist, and mopping up some innings when behind or having a significant lead like last night. Considering his low salary, that's a-ok with me. We don't really need a young guy to fill a mop up role. Last year, he saw a few too many high leverage situations for all of our comfort levels, but the bullpen overall was not as strong as it is this year, so it seems like he isn't being miscast to a significant degree this year.

 

I would advocate that you don't need a reverse-split lefty specialist when you have actual lefty specialists who are more effective. Once Logan is back, and Suter is shipped to the pen, Drake has no use anymore.

[pacopete4]

I'm sold. Drake is my new favorite player. Getting my shersey ordered this afternoon.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm sold. Drake is my new favorite player. Getting my shersey ordered this afternoon.

 

Well, I know a guy who still happily wears his Reuben Quevedo jersey. Everyone has a guilty vice I suppose

 

I guess I really don't mind Drake if he is truly used as he was last night. But with the short starts and low scoring games so far, the bullpen is being taxed pretty good, and it's tough having a guy out there who you can't trust to get an out in any sort of leverage situation. In any case, they are going to have a little pitching crunch soon when Logan and Miley are ready to contribute, and something will have to give.

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm sold. Drake is my new favorite player. Getting my shersey ordered this afternoon.

 

Well, I know a guy who still happily wears his Reuben Quevedo jersey. Everyone has a guilty vice I suppose

 

I guess I really don't mind Drake if he is truly used as he was last night. But with the short starts and low scoring games so far, the bullpen is being taxed pretty good, and it's tough having a guy out there who you can't trust to get an out in any sort of leverage situation. In any case, they are going to have a little pitching crunch soon when Logan and Miley are ready to contribute, and something will have to give.

 

Yes, something will have to give, and that something is Taylor Williams. You may not like it, but he has options and he will go down before Drake.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm sold. Drake is my new favorite player. Getting my shersey ordered this afternoon.

 

Well, I know a guy who still happily wears his Reuben Quevedo jersey. Everyone has a guilty vice I suppose

 

I guess I really don't mind Drake if he is truly used as he was last night. But with the short starts and low scoring games so far, the bullpen is being taxed pretty good, and it's tough having a guy out there who you can't trust to get an out in any sort of leverage situation. In any case, they are going to have a little pitching crunch soon when Logan and Miley are ready to contribute, and something will have to give.

 

Yes, something will have to give, and that something is Taylor Williams. You may not like it, but he has options and he will go down before Drake.

 

You are likely right, and while sending Williams down would be disappointing and I believe a very wrong choice, I agree that it is likely. But if they activate both Logan and Miley, that's two spots needed. If Suter is taking the long-man pen garbage man role, that still leaves Drake on the outside looking in, in my opinion.

[istanbultaye]

I can understand a couple of the points in the article, but the fact is, Drake is one of the bottom arms in the pen, and he has rightfully been used in that fashion this year. He has some function in medium leverage situations as a lefty specialist, and mopping up some innings when behind or having a significant lead like last night. Considering his low salary, that's a-ok with me. We don't really need a young guy to fill a mop up role. Last year, he saw a few too many high leverage situations for all of our comfort levels, but the bullpen overall was not as strong as it is this year, so it seems like he isn't being miscast to a significant degree this year.

 

I would advocate that you don't need a reverse-split lefty specialist when you have actual lefty specialists who are more effective. Once Logan is back, and Suter is shipped to the pen, Drake has no use anymore.

 

I agree. We'll see if the Brewers agree as time goes on.

[pacopete4]

Taylor Williams needs to start pitching better when he gets his opportunities to not give the GM reason to keep other guys like Drake around. Drake isn't good but when you support a 1.600 WHIP (Williams) so far, you are not giving anything extra for a reason to the GM to keep you around.

[FVBrewerFan]

You are likely right, and while sending Williams down would be disappointing and I believe a very wrong choice, I agree that it is likely. But if they activate both Logan and Miley, that's two spots needed. If Suter is taking the long-man pen garbage man role, that still leaves Drake on the outside looking in, in my opinion.

 

Except they are one short in the pen. So if/when Miley and Logan come up, Williams and position player go down. You still get to keep Drake.

[adambr2]

I think it's too early to tell what they plan to do when Logan returns. Logan may make Drake redundant, so it's not out of the question that they'd move on, and I think it's more likely than not that Suter ends up in the pen within the next month or two. They moved on from Hoover instead of optioning Williams.

 

Williams' only problem right now is he's walking too many, but it's only been 5 innings. Other than that, I think he's been pretty much as advertised and you can definitely see his appeal.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I find Drake intriguing. His K-rates are impressive. Anyone with his ability to miss bats is going to get opportunities.

 

However, he is out of options and only marginally effective. He has some serious "command" issues. He has too many mistake pitches whether that means the pitch is not placed in the right spot or not enough break on the ball. When he misses, he gets hit hard. Evidenced by his 800 OPS against this year and last. He also has a high BABIP against (approaching .400) which could mean he just has bad luck or could mean that is his normal. He either strikes people out or gets hit.

 

At this point Stearns is able to shuffle the roster around to keep Drake on the roster. I dont mind Taylor Williams and Houser shuffling between majors and AAA, because I dont want those guys being overworked too much. Both are still recovering from injury so fewer innings is fine by me. At some point he is going to need Drake's roster spot. That may happen when Boone comes back or it may be when one of these promising young pitchers shows they need to stay in the majors.

[reillymcshane]

At this point, I'm hoping they move Suter to the pen, and bring up Woodruff to take a rotation spot. Woodruff is pitching well at Colorado Springs and I just think he profiles as a better starter than Suter.

 

As for Suter, let's hope his stuff plays better out of the pen.

 

As for Drake, he gets his strikeouts, but he's just been too hittable in his career and walks too many batters. At 31, I don't see much more than what he is. Give Suter his job for now.

 

I like Hader, Jeffress, Barnes, T. Williams, Jennings, Albers group.

 

We can see how all of this shakes out once Boone Logan and Wade Miley are healthy (and eventually, Corey Knebel).

[adambr2]

Last season, Corey Knebel shattered a 26 year old Brewers record of 98 strikeouts by a reliever with 126. Josh Hader is on pace to shatter it again -- a current pace of an incredible 194.

 

While he's obviously unlikely to maintain that pace, if he stays healthy there shouldn't be any reason he doesn't break it.

 

By the way, the NL record is held by Brad Lidge with 154 K's in 2004.

[pacopete4]

It won’t last forever and I’m sure we will all moan and complain when/if they give up runs today but they haven’t allowed a run in 17 2/3’s inning. Very impressive.

[adambr2]

Is it completely possible that when Knebel returns, we'll be sticking with a non-traditional approach of just not having a full-time closer? This seems to be working well. The pen is such a luxury right now even without Corey. Counsell basically has 3 guys that he can use whenever the heck he wants to just to get outs in Hader, Jeffress and Barnes. Knebel could be the 4th guy on that list and even Taylor Williams if he can harness his command could be there too by the end of the year. Just really fun to watch all around.

 

Albers and Jennings are basically afterthoughts and yet both have been fantastic too. There are literally probably 5 guys in the pen who can close and you're not too worried about it. Quite a contrast from last year when it was, "Oh crap, Feliz sucks. Now what?"