2018 Bullpen

[adambr2]

Suter might not be the problem but if Woodruff can even repeat Suter's performance in the rotation and Suter can help the bullpen, it is a win-win. To be honest, I'm not sure why they keep forcing Suter to be a starter anyways. He was so good at the end of the year as a swingman/spot starter.

 

What's keeping them from removing Chacin from the rotation? He's been demonstrably worse than Suter, and his slider profiles well in a bullpen role. Personally, I like Suter in the rotation better than Chacin. At least Suter has look competent at times this year. All Chacin has done is throw a ton of pitches and benefit from some quick hooks before getting shelled.

 

I would say first historically, Suter has had more success in the pen and probably benefits from not seeing hitters 2-3 times per game.

 

Second I would say realistically, they aren't going to give a guy 2 years and 16M to start and pull the plug on him as a starter after 4 starts.

[FVBrewerFan]

Suter might not be the problem but if Woodruff can even repeat Suter's performance in the rotation and Suter can help the bullpen, it is a win-win. To be honest, I'm not sure why they keep forcing Suter to be a starter anyways. He was so good at the end of the year as a swingman/spot starter.

 

Right, I wasn't knocking Suter. As you said, it's all about using the resources you have. As we move forward, there's not going to be room in the rotation for Suter anyhow with Nelson, Burnes, Peralta, and Ortiz on the way. And Woodruff has a higher upside as a starter than Suter, just makes a lot of sense to go that route.

 

Thanks for linking that Hader article by the way, great read. It really affirms my opinion, that he should be given a shot at the rotation at some point. Does it have to be this year? No. But this is what I got out of the article. He is knocking down every concern about being a starter one by one. His control is a problem, he can't be a starter. Well, he has addressed that. Relies too much on FB to be a starter. Done. He is mixing in more sliders and even a change here and there.

 

If they ever give him a shot at the rotation, I have no doubt he'll get more comfortable with his change and use it more, and learn how to at least pitch into the 6th inning.

[KeithStone53151]

Bullpen depth is definitely a mild concern. Miley is making a rehab start today I think, and I believe they are planning for 3 rehab starts before it's decision time. I fully expect us to keep him and bump someone(suter) to the bullpen. We also have Logan coming back in probably 3-4 weeks and Knebel around the end of May.

 

Long story short, we likely have to get through the next 2-3 weeks with what we have before reinforcements arrive. That means we might have to hide Drake at the back end for those 2-3 weeks and hopefully he only costs us one or two more games until we can finally get rid of him. What we need more than anything, is the offense to truly get going and win some games on their own to keep us in it early on. We could get a heck of a lot better a month or so from now with prospects coming up from AAA and Nelson/Logan/Knebel all returning.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Suter might not be the problem but if Woodruff can even repeat Suter's performance in the rotation and Suter can help the bullpen, it is a win-win. To be honest, I'm not sure why they keep forcing Suter to be a starter anyways. He was so good at the end of the year as a swingman/spot starter.

 

What's keeping them from removing Chacin from the rotation? He's been demonstrably worse than Suter, and his slider profiles well in a bullpen role. Personally, I like Suter in the rotation better than Chacin. At least Suter has look competent at times this year. All Chacin has done is throw a ton of pitches and benefit from some quick hooks before getting shelled.

 

Not saying I disagree with you but its doubtful that they pull the plug on Chacin as a starter this soon into the season after paying them a decent chunk to be in our rotation. It is just not how things usually work at that level. That is why Suter, even though he hasn't been terrible, is probably the odd man out and could help extend our bullpen.

 

$8 million isn't very out of line for a decent reliever. If Chacin continues to put up 3-4 inning starts, I don't think it's too out of line to think he may be replaced. You are probably right, though, that the leash is probably longer with him than with someone like Suter or Guerra. The fact that Suter could theoretically come out of the pen and provide 2-3 innings on a semi regular basis would be valuable as well.

 

It just is a little depressing that the rotation has performed pretty much exactly as advertised, i.e. extremely hittable for the most part, with short starts. Thank goodness Chase Anderson has been good this year. He's the only one who provides any semblance of length. The mediocrity of the rotation has me thinking we may see some of the young prospects taking turns at some point soon.

[pacopete4]

Bullpen depth is definitely a mild concern. Miley is making a rehab start today I think, and I believe they are planning for 3 rehab starts before it's decision time. I fully expect us to keep him and bump someone(suter) to the bullpen. We also have Logan coming back in probably 3-4 weeks and Knebel around the end of May.

 

Long story short, we likely have to get through the next 2-3 weeks with what we have before reinforcements arrive. That means we might have to hide Drake at the back end for those 2-3 weeks and hopefully he only costs us one or two more games until we can finally get rid of him. What we need more than anything, is the offense to truly get going and win some games on their own to keep us in it early on. We could get a heck of a lot better a month or so from now with prospects coming up from AAA and Nelson/Logan/Knebel all returning.

 

Blood pressure rose just reading that.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Bullpen depth is definitely a mild concern. Miley is making a rehab start today I think, and I believe they are planning for 3 rehab starts before it's decision time. I fully expect us to keep him and bump someone(suter) to the bullpen. We also have Logan coming back in probably 3-4 weeks and Knebel around the end of May.

 

Long story short, we likely have to get through the next 2-3 weeks with what we have before reinforcements arrive. That means we might have to hide Drake at the back end for those 2-3 weeks and hopefully he only costs us one or two more games until we can finally get rid of him. What we need more than anything, is the offense to truly get going and win some games on their own to keep us in it early on. We could get a heck of a lot better a month or so from now with prospects coming up from AAA and Nelson/Logan/Knebel all returning.

 

Blood pressure rose just reading that.

 

If moving Suter to the pen as the long man meant finally getting rid of the Drake, that is a move I could get behind.

[adambr2]

I've always felt that depth is kind of overrated unless it's quality depth. Brett Phillips is depth. Webb, Hoover, and Drake are/were just guys. There is always one of these guys you can just pluck off the street, you're not going to run out of relievers.

 

Heck Dan Jennings was basically plucked off the street. You shouldn't be afraid of dumping someone like Drake who had plenty of chances to earn a spot here, just because you're worried about depth. Someone can always take his place regardless of who else is hurt now.

[KeithStone53151]

I've always felt that depth is kind of overrated unless it's quality depth. Brett Phillips is depth. Webb, Hoover, and Drake are/were just guys. There is always one of these guys you can just pluck off the street, you're not going to run out of relievers.

 

Heck Dan Jennings was basically plucked off the street. You shouldn't be afraid of dumping someone like Drake who had plenty of chances to earn a spot here, just because you're worried about depth. Someone can always take his place regardless of who else is hurt now.

 

YES! Depth and quality depth are 2 different things. I cannot understand why Drake didn't get the same treatment as Torres. It blows my mind, it's almost like they didn't watch him pitch at all last season. I feel more confident having Perez pitch an inning than Drake. We had much more depth heading into this season than we did last season. Guys like Lopez, Williams, Houser, Ramirez, Derby, any number of SP that could convert to relief short term(Guerra/Suter/Woodruff). We are taxing that depth a bit due to injury, but we still have a few quality options in the minors if we have any more injuries in the next couple weeks. It seems like a no brainer to move Suter to the bullpen, cut Drake, and Woodruff back up to the rotation. Suter can spot start if we have a SP injury, Houser/Ramirez/Derby are relief options in injury, and reinforcements are only a few weeks away.

[Never Outhustled]

I don't understand why Suter needs to move to the bullpen to replace Drake. Drake is a 1 inning pitcher at most. Drake got hammered yesterday, but the bullpen is in great shape. Barnes needs work tonight regardless of score just to stay active. We don't need a long man, just a pitcher who can prevent runs in any capacity.

 

They could cut Drake and replace him with a position player short term.

[KeithStone53151]

I don't understand why Suter needs to move to the bullpen to replace Drake. Drake is a 1 inning pitcher at most. Drake got hammered yesterday, but the bullpen is in great shape. Barnes needs work tonight regardless of score just to stay active. We don't need a long man, just a pitcher who can prevent runs in any capacity.

 

They could cut Drake and replace him with a position player short term.

 

Fine, a position player. You could replace Drake with a sack of potatoes and I'd be happy with the move...

[And That]

Fine, a position player. You could replace Drake with a sack of potatoes and I'd be happy with the move...

I think it's time to pull the trigger on making Counsell a player-coach.

[pacopete4]

Fine, a position player. You could replace Drake with a sack of potatoes and I'd be happy with the move...

I think it's time to pull the trigger on making Counsell a player-coach.

 

Then we can at least replace Sogard. I swear Counsell would be about the same player still.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Fine, a position player. You could replace Drake with a sack of potatoes and I'd be happy with the move...

I think it's time to pull the trigger on making Counsell a player-coach.

 

Somewhere, Nate Orf just shed a single tear.

[AKCheesehead]

Fine, a position player. You could replace Drake with a sack of potatoes and I'd be happy with the move...

I think it's time to pull the trigger on making Counsell a player-coach.

 

There was a time in I believe 2012 when we had a bizarre wave of injuries to the guys who could play SS. I actually was starting to wonder if Counsell would have to come out of the office and suit up for a few games.

[KeithStone53151]

Lopez to AAA, Drake stays. I have no words.....

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Lopez to AAA, Drake stays. I have no words.....

 

"Something, something valuable depth mumble mumble." - Craig Counsell

[KeithStone53151]

Lopez to AAA, Drake stays. I have no words.....

 

"Something, something valuable depth mumble mumble." - Craig Counsell

 

Why don't the beat writers confront Counsell on this? Drake has never been a good pitcher. How he got past AA is beyond me. He's fringe useable against lefties only, but lefties wore him out pretty handily last night so that argument isn't even all that sound. All season so far it's been line drive outs...lopez was actually somewhat effective yesterday and is a much better option than Drake against any hitter.

[Greenleaf1]

Looks like several of us were right about that open spot on the 40-man.

 

Brewers claimed Alec Asher and optioned him to AAA.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/asheral01.shtml

[Greenleaf1]

For those hoping that we'll finally be at peace as soon as we cut Drake, I have bad news.

 

Alec Asher is a former Oriole righty with reverse splits and generally crappy numbers.....

 

http://www.thinkbluela.com/2018/04/dodgers-claim-rhp-alec-asher-from-orioles/

[liveforoctober]

Lopez to AAA, Drake stays. I have no words.....

 

We option out our best bench bat...

[pacopete4]

Don’t count out Nick Ramirez who just moved from AA to AAA. All he’s done since switching to the mound is get people out.

[djoctagone]

the brewers have talked about having flexibility in the back end of their bullpen. when you look at it, there isn't as much flexibility as one would think (assuming that no players are dfa'd). when a player is optioned, he has to spend at least 10 days optioned, unless replacing a player placed on the disabled/paternity/bereavement/restricted list.

 

thus, someone like adrian houser, who was optioned 9 april, has been off limits for an overworked bullpen (unless a player had been placed on the disabled or similar list).

 

management and fans will also have to take note of this when boone logan is ready to come off the disabled list, and again for corey knebel.

 

relievers on the 40-man and number of remaining options:

 

alec asher (1; has already met 10-day minimum stay with los angeles and can be recalled at any point)

jacob barnes (2)

oliver drake (0)

josh hader (2)

adrian houser (1; eligible to be recalled starting tomorrow)

dan jennings (0)

jeremy jeffress (0)

corey knebel (1)

boone logan (unclear on remaining options, but if he does have an option, he can refuse the minor league assignment, void his contract and become a free agent)

jorge lopez (1; optioned 17 april; must stay down 10 days unless replacing an injured player)

taylor williams (2)

[NYChez]

I like the 2-inning saves. Although it means losing the guy the next day, pitching 2 innings in a game involves less strain than pitching 1 inning in consecutive games (because you avoid the "pitches" thrown in the bullpen the day you don't pitch). It will be interesting to see if Hader is available on Thursday after throwing 2 clean innings on Tuesday. Perhaps Counsell has a per-week inning or pitch count in mind.

[Brewer Fever]

Love the 2 inning saves, and multiple inning relief appearances in general. I hope the Brewers are at the forefront of a new trend.

 

Been advocating fewer is better for years even if it means a pitcher is completely unavailable the next day. It's like Russian Roulette. If you fire enough bullets you're bound to find the guy who doesn't have it that day (the bullet). If one guy comes in and is sharp, stick with him. Nothing worse than seeing a guy breeze through an inning and then trot out a new pitcher because of some fallacy that relievers are 1-inning guys. Getting through a game with 3 pitchers (SP, RP, RP) each going multiple innings is much better than using 5 or 6 and increasing the chances you find the one who isn't sharp. Yes it takes 1-2 RPs out of the picture for the next day but you still have 5-6 guys rested.

[brewmann04]

I have issues why Drake is still in the pen but i thinking will we still Suter in the rotation or moved to the pen like some suggest.