2018 Bullpen

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Harder is a reliever and should stay there. This is not an argument anymore.

 

LOL, it's gonna be as long as he's in the pen. Also, I think speaking in absolutes doesn't do you any favors

[TJseven7]

Hader is a reliever and should stay there. This is not an argument anymore.

 

 

I could be wrong but Hader is an all star reliever in the very near future, I think, maybe. It's just my opinion but throwing that away to see if he can start is a big risk, possibly.

 

I had wondered for a long time why I'd see football draft guys say... Darnold is flawed and I think he's worth the 15th pick in my mock but he's also very good and could go with the top overall pick. I thought they were wishy washy hacks who talked out of both sides of their mouth because they didn't know anything... but I've learned its to appease the proofers.

 

Mod edit: please stick to your own opinions (as above) and you'll be fine.

[pacopete4]

Opinion. Because that’s what any of us have. There is no evidence, anywhere, that says Hader will or will not be a starter in this league so speaking in absolutes about whether it can be discussed doesn’t make sense and it comes off terribly. On a different note, if someone has that much dislike built up about other posters or how this forum operates, why come here?

[TJseven7]

His control issues and 2 pitch FB heavy approach is a starter common trait? His elevated pitch counts in relief appearances and 5ip per start vs inferior competition shouldn't be a consideration? That's not evidence? There's zero evidence he'll succeed as a starter. There are certainly signs of why he could struggle as a starter. There's also building proof of his worth as a RP. That pushes us past all we have is opinions.

 

Mod edit: again, stick to a baseball opinion and stop telling others how to post.

[adambr2]

I think Hader is probably best suited to be a reliever, but I think it's a valid question and discussion point.

 

I think at this time, he's still lacking that 3rd pitch that could be crucial to success as a starter. If he develops a good change, that could be a game changer.

 

Aside from that, his current value to the pen and what they have for expectations this year will keep them from even considering a change to his role in the near future, IMO.

[torts]

I love the idea of having Hader for 1+ IP out of the pen every few days. I have always had this idea that he would end up in the rotation (maybe he still does?) but he is just pure dominance out of the pen. I dont know if that holds up with 5+ innings an outing, but whats happening right now is working, so why mess with it?

[pacopete4]

His control issues and 2 pitch FB heavy approach is a starter common trait? His elevated pitch counts in relief appearances and 5ip per start vs inferior competition shouldn't be a consideration? That's not evidence? There's zero evidence he'll succeed as a starter. There are certainly signs of why he could struggle as a starter. There's also building proof of his worth as a RP. That pushes us past all we have is opinions.

 

Never said that some opinions don't hold more worth and there is nothing wrong with providing your evidence as to why he is a bullpen piece as you are doing but to say "This is not an argument anymore." is just not true and a terrible way to post. (It doesn't shock me from the source because that poster likes to create a stir by what they post; see Albers is not good post from yesterday's thread for evidence) I also don't think ridiculing someone for having an opinion needs to happen either. I know I've done it in the past but what's the reason for it? Usually just creates more crap on here than anything else.

 

On the topic: Others have come on here and mentioned why they believe he should get an opportunity as a starter, some have mentioned the two-pitch arsenal of our very own Ben Sheets. There have been successful two-pitch starters IF you have two really good pitches as Hader seems to have. Does that mean that having a third pitch wouldn't drastically help him? Of course not. But some keep mentioning his walks and so far this season (2.8/BB9) has been much, much better. Even his 4.2/BB9 last season wasn't terrible so that is a good sign moving forward if they were to want to make that switch.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Hader is a reliever and should stay there. This is not an argument anymore.

 

I could be wrong but Hader is an all star reliever in the very near future, I think, maybe. It's just my opinion but throwing that away to see if he can start is a big risk, possibly.

 

See no hurt feelings. I had wondered for a long time why I'd see football draft guys say... Darnold is flawed and I think he's worth the 15th pick in my mock but he's also very good and could go with the top overall pick. I thought they were wishy washy hacks who talked out of both sides of their mouth because they didn't know anything... but I've learned its to appease the proofers.

 

You are right. I didn't think it through. I don't have to. I know the team needs good starters. I know Hader is a great arm who has had a lot of success as a minor league starter. Pretty easy to connect the dots. Patronize me all you want, but I'd love to see Hader in the rotation at some point.

[homer]

I had to double check the stat line from the other day to make sure I was reading it correctly:

 

23 pitches, 2 innings, 5 K's.

 

That's ridiculous. That's like.....Bugs Bunny.

 

[pacopete4]

Josh Hader Is Becoming Baseball’s Most Valuable Reliever

[Never Outhustled]

I think we just saw the last of Oliver Drake.

 

Time to take a look at Radhames Liz. He's stuck out 8 of the 13 batters he's faced at AAA. He's always a a live arm.

[Boomer5]

Harder is a reliever and should stay there. This is not an argument anymore.

 

LOL, it's gonna be as long as he's in the pen. Also, I think speaking in absolutes doesn't do you any favors

 

22ks in 9.2 high leverage innings.

 

If someone wants to argue that isn’t valuable that’s on them, not me.

[adambr2]

Harder is a reliever and should stay there. This is not an argument anymore.

 

LOL, it's gonna be as long as he's in the pen. Also, I think speaking in absolutes doesn't do you any favors

 

22ks in 9.2 high leverage innings.

 

If someone wants to argue that isn’t valuable that’s on them, not me.

 

I really don't think anyone has or is arguing that Hader isn't valuable in the pen.

[pacopete4]

Harder is a reliever and should stay there. This is not an argument anymore.

 

LOL, it's gonna be as long as he's in the pen. Also, I think speaking in absolutes doesn't do you any favors

 

22ks in 9.2 high leverage innings.

 

If someone wants to argue that isn’t valuable that’s on them, not me.

 

Who said it wasn’t valuable? You’re making two separate arguments. He could be valuable as a starter also. So “this is not an argument anymore” still doesn’t apply.

[Greenleaf1]

Not sure if you guys have discussed this in here, but with the losses of Tyler Webb and JJ Hoover, our bullpen backup options on the 40-man are kinda thin.

 

Adrian Houser, who I don't believe is even eligible to be recalled yet, is really the only logical guy who could be called up to the bullpen right now if we needed someone. With Logan/Knebel on the DL, Wilkerson injured, and Diplan looking awful in his 3rd go around at A+, Freddy Peralta might actually be the only guy to call on if we needed somebody right away.

 

This is probably easy enough to fix: Move Suter to the bullpen if we needed to make a move and call up Woodruff. There's also a 40-man spot open that doesn't seem like it would be needed for anybody else right now, so maybe you could look down to Nick Ramirez or QTC at AA if you were feeling creative.

 

Luckily I don't think we really need any fresh arms at this point, but just something worth monitoring if we have a couple short starts in a row this week.

[trwi7]

Yeah, even with Webb and Hoover our backup bullpen options weren't very good because they were Tyler Webb and J.J. Hoover.

[pacopete4]

Krod is still out there I believe.

[djoctagone]

Not sure if you guys have discussed this in here, but with the losses of Tyler Webb and JJ Hoover, our bullpen backup options on the 40-man are kinda thin.

 

Adrian Houser, who I don't believe is even eligible to be recalled yet, is really the only logical guy who could be called up to the bullpen right now if we needed someone. With Logan/Knebel on the DL, Wilkerson injured, and Diplan looking awful in his 3rd go around at A+, Freddy Peralta might actually be the only guy to call on if we needed somebody right away.

i brought this up last week. the brewers are also at a disadvantage in pitching brandon woodruff and freddy peralta back-to-back in the colorado springs rotation. they should be spread apart, so either could be closer to his bullpen day in between starts and be able to cover the brewers in a pinch if needed.

 

the open 40-man spot is advantageous to the club, and they likely know that another spot will open up when all of their catchers are healthy.

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't like the notion of bringing Peralta up to the BP. There's a chance he could be in the rotation this year, so keep him stretched out. Once Woodruff is eligible to come up, put him in the rotation and put Suter in the pen. Then you have Liz and Ramirez as options. Houser, I'm not sure. He has the stuff to be a starter, and they're using him that way. Not sure if he should be called up to the pen again, or let him continue to develop as a starter.

[tmwiese55]

All I ask is that Drake finally goes, I have no idea how he's made it this long

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I don't like the notion of bringing Peralta up to the BP. There's a chance he could be in the rotation this year, so keep him stretched out. Once Woodruff is eligible to come up, put him in the rotation and put Suter in the pen. Then you have Liz and Ramirez as options. Houser, I'm not sure. He has the stuff to be a starter, and they're using him that way. Not sure if he should be called up to the pen again, or let him continue to develop as a starter.

 

Suter is not this team's issue. I know many here don't like the junkballer, but he's been just fine this year. Chacin and Davies, actually, have been a lot worse, save for Davies' start against the Cubs. Hard to win games when the offense can't get out of its own way.

[pacopete4]

Suter might not be the problem but if Woodruff can even repeat Suter's performance in the rotation and Suter can help the bullpen, it is a win-win. To be honest, I'm not sure why they keep forcing Suter to be a starter anyways. He was so good at the end of the year as a swingman/spot starter.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Suter might not be the problem but if Woodruff can even repeat Suter's performance in the rotation and Suter can help the bullpen, it is a win-win. To be honest, I'm not sure why they keep forcing Suter to be a starter anyways. He was so good at the end of the year as a swingman/spot starter.

 

What's keeping them from removing Chacin from the rotation? He's been demonstrably worse than Suter, and his slider profiles well in a bullpen role. Personally, I like Suter in the rotation better than Chacin. At least Suter has look competent at times this year. All Chacin has done is throw a ton of pitches and benefit from some quick hooks before getting shelled.

[adambr2]

If you're not going to bring up Burnes/Peralta anytime soon, Suter seems like a no-brainer addition to the bullpen with his success there and struggles as a starter.

 

Guerra and Woodruff both stay up, if you really want to find a spot for Miley when he comes back you can send the struggling one of Guerra or Woodruff down.

 

Gives you another lefty for the pen too with Drake getting his long overdue DFA.

 

Hader, Albers, Barnes, Jeffress, Williams, Suter, Jennings. Houser and Lopez can rotate in as an 8th man from time to time when the pen is gassed.

[pacopete4]

Suter might not be the problem but if Woodruff can even repeat Suter's performance in the rotation and Suter can help the bullpen, it is a win-win. To be honest, I'm not sure why they keep forcing Suter to be a starter anyways. He was so good at the end of the year as a swingman/spot starter.

 

What's keeping them from removing Chacin from the rotation? He's been demonstrably worse than Suter, and his slider profiles well in a bullpen role. Personally, I like Suter in the rotation better than Chacin. At least Suter has look competent at times this year. All Chacin has done is throw a ton of pitches and benefit from some quick hooks before getting shelled.

 

Not saying I disagree with you but its doubtful that they pull the plug on Chacin as a starter this soon into the season after paying them a decent chunk to be in our rotation. It is just not how things usually work at that level. That is why Suter, even though he hasn't been terrible, is probably the odd man out and could help extend our bullpen.