2018 Bullpen

[Greenleaf1]

How's this for some optimism about the state of the team as a whole (but also the bullpen as a whole).

 

We just took a series from the 1st place DBacks on the road.

 

Jeffress didn't pitch.

Knebel didn't pitch.

Hader only pitched once.

 

The other guys did a great job at holding our leads and obviously the offense broke out as well. But this bullpen is deep and isn't going to blow a lot of leads.

[KeithStone53151]

How's this for some optimism about the state of the team as a whole (but also the bullpen as a whole).

 

We just took a series from the 1st place DBacks on the road.

 

Jeffress didn't pitch.

Knebel didn't pitch.

Hader only pitched once.

 

The other guys did a great job at holding our leads and obviously the offense broke out as well. But this bullpen is deep and isn't going to blow a lot of leads.

 

It's really quite nice having Williams, Lopez, and Jennings/Logan as the mop-up type guys...with Jeffress, Hader, Knebel, and Albers to some degree as the back end guys. I think many teams would feel great about having Williams as their setup guy.

 

I've also noticed and generally like how CC has been using Williams in the 9th inning of a 4 or 5 run game. He's done it at least a few times, gives him the mentality of finishing a game at the mlb level.

[clancyphile]

How's this for some optimism about the state of the team as a whole (but also the bullpen as a whole).

 

We just took a series from the 1st place DBacks on the road.

 

Jeffress didn't pitch.

Knebel didn't pitch.

Hader only pitched once.

 

The other guys did a great job at holding our leads and obviously the offense broke out as well. But this bullpen is deep and isn't going to blow a lot of leads.

 

It's really quite nice having Williams, Lopez, and Jennings/Logan as the mop-up type guys...with Jeffress, Hader, Knebel, and Albers to some degree as the back end guys. I think many teams would feel great about having Williams as their setup guy.

 

I've also noticed and generally like how CC has been using Williams in the 9th inning of a 4 or 5 run game. He's done it at least a few times, gives him the mentality of finishing a game at the mlb level.

 

The nice thing about such a deep bullpen is you can deal from it to fill some other needs... or re-load the farm system.

 

When our mop-up guys can be someone else's set-up guy, and there is a nice pipeline from the minors, this could be a huge area of strength to deal from.

[JohnBriggs12]

Twice this week Counsell has used Williams in a spot that called for Albers in order to play the match up game with his new toy Logan. It's failed both times because Williams has walked the leadoff man both times and Logan gave up big hits. One, Williams is not ready for high leverage situations particularly in hostile environments and two, Logan after nearly 2 months out should have been eased in with less stressful situations. Of course part of that is the starter not going deep enough, but it's not like he couldn't have tried to get a few more outs of Guerra.

[MrTPlush]

Anyone a little disappointed they are labeling Knebel the closer? Was hoping they would just let Jeffress/Hader/Knebel pitch whenever necessary and whenever it makes sense. Why save Knebel all week for one inning? We have the arms to let multiple guys have that all important inning. Just always make sure one can pitch the next day.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Anyone a little disappointed they are labeling Knebel the closer? Was hoping they would just let Jeffress/Hader/Knebel pitch whenever necessary and whenever it makes sense. Why save Knebel all week for one inning? We have the arms to let multiple guys have that all important inning. Just always make sure one can pitch the next day.

 

Not disappointed at all. The guy was an All-Star shut-down closer last year, and arguably the team's MVP. It wouldn't surprise me to see Jeffress and Hader continue to get multiple-inning save chances, though. Maybe just not as frequently. The way that Counsell handled the pen during Knebel's injury was masterful, so it would be a shame for them to scrap that entirely.

[FVBrewerFan]

Anyone a little disappointed they are labeling Knebel the closer? Was hoping they would just let Jeffress/Hader/Knebel pitch whenever necessary and whenever it makes sense. Why save Knebel all week for one inning? We have the arms to let multiple guys have that all important inning. Just always make sure one can pitch the next day.

 

It's just semantics. They let Hader close a game a couple days ago. In the old way of doing things, they would have brought Knebel in to close in the 9th.

 

There will be times, like last night, where it's just natural to have Knebel close the game. Depending on how the bullpen is set up that day, game situation, etc. But Hader will continue to finish games, and even Jeffress will get a close here and there when Knebel isn't available.

[KeithStone53151]

Anyone a little disappointed they are labeling Knebel the closer? Was hoping they would just let Jeffress/Hader/Knebel pitch whenever necessary and whenever it makes sense. Why save Knebel all week for one inning? We have the arms to let multiple guys have that all important inning. Just always make sure one can pitch the next day.

 

It's just semantics. They let Hader close a game a couple days ago. In the old way of doing things, they would have brought Knebel in to close in the 9th.

 

There will be times, like last night, where it's just natural to have Knebel close the game. Depending on how the bullpen is set up that day, game situation, etc. But Hader will continue to finish games, and even Jeffress will get a close here and there when Knebel isn't available.

 

I personally don't think Jeffress finds his way back to a close situation unless Knebel goes back to back or something. I could see Hader getting a couple chances in multi-inning situations or if the 9th inning includes 2 lefties or something. Jeffress has been incredible, it's simply a situation where we have 4(including albers) very good relievers performing at their peak. I'm sure you all saw Knebel's save yesterday, dude completely wrecked the dbacks. His curve was quite the weapon and he was back in the 97-98 range consistently. His command was even pretty good. Knebel and Hader are our best relievers right now. That isn't a knock on Jeffress, it's honestly kinda like being the pitcher that finishes 3rd in the cy young voting. We should have at least 2 relievers pitch in the all star game, Jeffress is more deserving of that accolade than Knebel based on not missing so much time.

[long ball]

Anyone a little disappointed they are labeling Knebel the closer? Was hoping they would just let Jeffress/Hader/Knebel pitch whenever necessary and whenever it makes sense. Why save Knebel all week for one inning? We have the arms to let multiple guys have that all important inning. Just always make sure one can pitch the next day.

 

Did Counsell come out and name Knebel the "closer"? If he did, I must've missed that. Just because he was used in a save situation last night isn't necessarily indicative of how they'll manage the bullpen as a whole going forward.

 

I think how Counsell used the bullpen last night was perfect.

 

Albers- 2 run lead- faces the bottom of the order.

Exits for PH.

Jeffress- 2 run lead- faces top of the order.

Exits game for Knebel who hasn't pitched in several days and Jeffress likely available for the next game.

Knebel- 2 run lead- faces middle of the order.

 

I think Counsell had the guys he wanted facing the part of the order he wanted them to face. Sometimes if makes sense to have guys pitch multiple innings depending on game situation, rest, and other available options. Last night it made sense to go inning to inning.

[djoctagone]

a reminder that unless replacing a player put on the disabled list, a player must remain optioned for a minimum of 10 days before he is eligible to be recalled again.

 

alec asher (optioned 13 may and can be recalled at any point)

brandon woodruff (optioned 24 may)

jorge lopez (optioned 25 may)

adrian houser (optioned 27 may)

 

obviously, the brewers have "untouchable" bullpen arms until the first full week of june and beyond. but the brewers have an advantage with only four more games to play before an off day and then five games in american league parks (where a pitcher won't be pulled for a pinch hitter), plus two off days in that first full week of june.

[clancyphile]

Anyone a little disappointed they are labeling Knebel the closer? Was hoping they would just let Jeffress/Hader/Knebel pitch whenever necessary and whenever it makes sense. Why save Knebel all week for one inning? We have the arms to let multiple guys have that all important inning. Just always make sure one can pitch the next day.

 

Not disappointed at all. The guy was an All-Star shut-down closer last year, and arguably the team's MVP. It wouldn't surprise me to see Jeffress and Hader continue to get multiple-inning save chances, though. Maybe just not as frequently. The way that Counsell handled the pen during Knebel's injury was masterful, so it would be a shame for them to scrap that entirely.

 

The Crew's bullpen has the following:

Knebel (9th inning/closer)

Asher and Jennings (one-inning guys pitching well)

Hader (Andrew Miller-type pitcher)

Jeffress (multi-inning capable/closer capable)

Taylor Williams (very promising K/9 ratio, multi-inning capable)

Jacob Barnes (good one-inning pitcher)

 

Knebel has the highest ERA at 5.23, but was arguably the best closer in baseball in 2017. Jennings has posted a 2.19 ERA that in most years would have people excited to see him come in - but when Asher, Hader, and Jeffress have ERAs of 1.17 or below, he's understandably seen as a letdown. Barnes went down for "struggling" to a 2.84 ERA, and Taylor Williams is pretty much the guy the Crew would call on to fill "garbage" innings - while whiffing 13.5 hitters every 9 IP.

 

Top to bottom, a lead is extremely safe with this bunch. If the 2018 Nasty Boys aren't the best bullpen Major League Baseball has ever seen, show me who beats them.

[YelichPosse]

Anyone a little disappointed they are labeling Knebel the closer? Was hoping they would just let Jeffress/Hader/Knebel pitch whenever necessary and whenever it makes sense. Why save Knebel all week for one inning? We have the arms to let multiple guys have that all important inning. Just always make sure one can pitch the next day.

 

Not disappointed at all. The guy was an All-Star shut-down closer last year, and arguably the team's MVP. It wouldn't surprise me to see Jeffress and Hader continue to get multiple-inning save chances, though. Maybe just not as frequently. The way that Counsell handled the pen during Knebel's injury was masterful, so it would be a shame for them to scrap that entirely.

 

The Crew's bullpen has the following:

Knebel (9th inning/closer)

Asher and Jennings (one-inning guys pitching well)

Hader (Andrew Miller-type pitcher)

Jeffress (multi-inning capable/closer capable)

Taylor Williams (very promising K/9 ratio, multi-inning capable)

Jacob Barnes (good one-inning pitcher)

 

Knebel has the highest ERA at 5.23, but was arguably the best closer in baseball in 2017. Jennings has posted a 2.19 ERA that in most years would have people excited to see him come in - but when Asher, Hader, and Jeffress have ERAs of 1.17 or below, he's understandably seen as a letdown. Barnes went down for "struggling" to a 2.84 ERA, and Taylor Williams is pretty much the guy the Crew would call on to fill "garbage" innings - while whiffing 13.5 hitters every 9 IP.

 

Top to bottom, a lead is extremely safe with this bunch. If the 2018 Nasty Boys aren't the best bullpen Major League Baseball has ever seen, show me who beats them.

 

That list is good... however you're missing Matt Albers ... and just like in your list, I think he is too often overlooked (even by CC)! He is a much better pickup than Boone Logan, and who'd of thunk it?

[sveumrules]

If the 2018 Nasty Boys aren't the best bullpen Major League Baseball has ever seen, show me who beats them.

 

It looks like the standard to clear would be the 2003 Los Angeles Dodgers bullpen which managed 9.6 WAR via FIP or 12.9 WAR via runs allowed, both MLB bests since the original Nasty Boys in 1990. Their Win Probability Added of 12.65 over that same span was second best to the 2012 Orioles (13.52).

 

You probably remember prime Eric Gagne (82 IP, 1.20 ERA, 0.86 FIP) from that 2003 Dodgers pen but they also featured our old buddy Guillermo Mota chipping in 105 innings of 1.97 ERA work.

 

The Brewers relievers are currently sitting on 3.3 WAR via FIP & 5.1 WAR via runs allowed with a 5.07 WPA one third of the way into the season, so they're definitely on pace so far.

[young guns]

That list is good... however you're missing Matt Albers ... and just like in your list, I think he is too often overlooked (even by CC)! He is a much better pickup than Boone Logan, and who'd of thunk it?

He probably typed Asher instead of albers. Ashers been here what, 1 day?

[YelichPosse]

That list is good... however you're missing Matt Albers ... and just like in your list, I think he is too often overlooked (even by CC)! He is a much better pickup than Boone Logan, and who'd of thunk it?

He probably typed Asher instead of albers. Ashers been here what, 1 day?

 

I'd say that is likely. However my point was more so I believe CC has forgotten him... like in MN .. He picked the wrong large mid 30's fella to come pitch. Maybe if one was an upside down pear like Choi he'd be able to tell them apart lol - i forgot who said that last week but I haven't been able to think about Choi without thinking about pears since....

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

CP- Jeffers (9th inning saves)

CP- Hader (2 inning saves)

SU- Albers (8th inning)

LS- Logan (lefties only)

7th- Knebel

Junk Innings- Jennings, Houser, Williams, etc....

[clancyphile]

Not disappointed at all. The guy was an All-Star shut-down closer last year, and arguably the team's MVP. It wouldn't surprise me to see Jeffress and Hader continue to get multiple-inning save chances, though. Maybe just not as frequently. The way that Counsell handled the pen during Knebel's injury was masterful, so it would be a shame for them to scrap that entirely.

 

The Crew's bullpen has the following:

Knebel (9th inning/closer)

Asher and Jennings (one-inning guys pitching well)

Hader (Andrew Miller-type pitcher)

Jeffress (multi-inning capable/closer capable)

Taylor Williams (very promising K/9 ratio, multi-inning capable)

Jacob Barnes (good one-inning pitcher)

 

Knebel has the highest ERA at 5.23, but was arguably the best closer in baseball in 2017. Jennings has posted a 2.19 ERA that in most years would have people excited to see him come in - but when Asher, Hader, and Jeffress have ERAs of 1.17 or below, he's understandably seen as a letdown. Barnes went down for "struggling" to a 2.84 ERA, and Taylor Williams is pretty much the guy the Crew would call on to fill "garbage" innings - while whiffing 13.5 hitters every 9 IP.

 

Top to bottom, a lead is extremely safe with this bunch. If the 2018 Nasty Boys aren't the best bullpen Major League Baseball has ever seen, show me who beats them.

 

That list is good... however you're missing Matt Albers ... and just like in your list, I think he is too often overlooked (even by CC)! He is a much better pickup than Boone Logan, and who'd of thunk it?

 

I meant Albers... where did I get Asher...

 

Not enough Mountain Dew, I guess...

[TooLiveBrew]

Excellent feature piece on Hader from The Ringer.

 

TL;DR version: his stats are appalling, & he's even filthier than you thought.

 

The latter comment can best be summed up by the included gif of his fastball & slider, overlaid on top of one another. Good luck, batters -- https://mobile.twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/999117208679837696/photo/1

[cesser000]

Excellent feature piece on Hader from The Ringer.

 

TL;DR version: his stats are appalling, & he's even filthier than you thought.

 

The latter comment can best be summed up by the included gif of his fastball & slider, overlaid on top of one another. Good luck, batters -- https://mobile.twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/999117208679837696/photo/1

Great article. All I have to say is THANK GOD the Mets rebuffed the Gomez trade!

[TooLiveBrew]

Excellent feature piece on Hader from The Ringer.

 

TL;DR version: his stats are appalling, & he's even filthier than you thought.

 

The latter comment can best be summed up by the included gif of his fastball & slider, overlaid on top of one another. Good luck, batters -- https://mobile.twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/999117208679837696/photo/1

Great article. All I have to say is THANK GOD the Mets rebuffed the Gomez trade!

Hear hear.

 

There are a lot of stats in the article to blow you away about Hader, but my favorite is:

 

hitters he’s gotten to two strikes against have gone 1-for-78.

... That's an AVG of .013, if you're keeping score at home.

[cesser000]

Excellent feature piece on Hader from The Ringer.

 

TL;DR version: his stats are appalling, & he's even filthier than you thought.

 

The latter comment can best be summed up by the included gif of his fastball & slider, overlaid on top of one another. Good luck, batters -- https://mobile.twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/999117208679837696/photo/1

Great article. All I have to say is THANK GOD the Mets rebuffed the Gomez trade!

Hear hear.

 

There are a lot of stats in the article to blow you away about Hader, but my favorite is:

 

hitters he’s gotten to two strikes against have gone 1-for-78.

... That's an AVG of .013, if you're keeping score at home.

Mind-blowing.

 

Love this quote too -- "Thus far, the southpaw has been the most dominant member of any bullpen in baseball, in this or ANY year. Hader is doing things on a per-batter basis that haven’t been done..."

 

I mean, that is well over 100 years of baseball. Cherish Hader folks - he is definitely something special!

[Dragonbait]

Hope Hader continues to do very well and that Scherzer slips a bit...

 

Hader for Cy Young

[reillymcshane]

Taylor Williams is starting to display how good he can potentially be. Last six games - 7.0 innings, 4 hits allowed, no runs, no walks, 8K.

 

He seems to be getting more consistent work, which likely helps. Consistency will no doubt be a big deal for him - but I like the talent. If we can count on him in important situations, it makes our bullpen even more formidable.

[brewmann04]

the biggest thing with him is the ability to not allow walks.

[Greenleaf1]

Williams kinda reminds me of Hader last year. Electric fastball with so-so command and a slider that could be solid but still needs work.

 

Not saying he'll all of a sudden turn into a righty Hader, but the talent is certainly there to be a high-leverage reliever and it's nice to see him have more success recently.

 

He was impressive last night locking down the win and getting out of a jam. They obviously like him and want to put him in those sorts of situations where he can finish up games but has a nice lead.

 

The bullpen roles are increasingly fluid this year, and with Knebel/Hader/Jeffress there aren't going to be a lot of high leverage situations left over for Williams to take, but on the other hand it's very nice for a guy like Williams to get his feet wet in the Major Leagues with this much support behind him. Hopefully by the time we can no longer afford Knebel, Williams will be ready to step in and take his place.