Wild Card: Forget about it

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Every team in every sport flies division titles flags. Nothing embarrassing about that.

 

I believe the wild card flag was painted over and is no longer there.

[pacopete4]

Every team in every sport flies division titles flags. Nothing embarrassing about that.

 

I believe the wild card flag was painted over and is no longer there.

 

I don't think that any of this is true. For example, Busch Stadium has their World Champion Flags up but I do not recall seeing any division champs.

 

And the 2008 Wild Card banner is still up and in play.

 

 

 

And yes, it is somewhat embarrassing.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Are you sure about the wild card thing? I always thought it was stupid but noticed some time ago the "2008 wild card champions" thing was painted over. We must be referring to something else, because I'm 100% certain the thing in left was painted over. I've looked right at the paint splotch over it many, many times.

 

As far as celebrating division titles being "embarrassing" I'll digress. The Packers still put them on the ring. The Bucks owned the 80s and still noted them all.

 

It's an achievement that should be celebrated. I think calling it embarrassing is frankly just being a sourpuss. You won the division. It's a good thing.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Never mind, just found a photo of it. The banner is hanging, but the 2008 Wild Card "Champions" banner that was painted on WAS painted over.

 

I'm fine with the banner as long as they aren't calling it "wild card champions"

[MilwaukeeDoctor]

Wild Card World Champions, lol

[Dead Simmons]

I wonder if the Braves have all their division flags flying? Anyone know?

[Fear The Chorizo]

I've posted a similar statement in the optimism thread - with the games remaining against the Cardinals and Cubs, the Brewers simply need to avoid falling on their faces against the rest of their remaining schedule to have their playoff fate in their own hands.

 

As a Brewer fan, you root for the mets to take at least one of the final 2 against the Cubs before the Cubs and Cards hopefully beat up on each other this weekend. If the Brewers win tonight and find a way to win the series against the Marlins - which will fortunately be taking place at Miller Park - they'll likely find themselves no worse than 1 game out of first heading into a stretch that has the Cubs playing the Brewers and Cards 8 times.

[pitchleague]

I wonder if the Braves have all their division flags flying? Anyone know?

 

They did at Turner Field, I know that. But I don't know about the new place. Haven't seen a good enough picture to check.

[adambr2]

I'm good with the division flags. The WC flag is a bit much.

 

What if they win the second Wild Card, then lose the play-in game? Does the Wild Card 2017 banner still hang proud next to the 2008 one? Yeesh.

[SomewhereInTime]

It should depend on the team. Should the Packers put up banners for division and wild card years? No, they already have 13 titles and that's more than enough to celebrate. The Brewers have 0 titles and 1 pennant. At this point, [sarcasm]fly a banner for a winning season.[/sarcasm]

[MrTPlush]

Brewers now 3 games back on that second wildcard and 2.5 back on the division. Division is still obviously the easier path as they play their divisional foes down the stretch and those divisional foes have the opportunity to beat on eachother. With the Marlins up next they have a good chance to make up some ground if they can't start beating inferior talent like they should.

[OnTheBlack]

Everyone was excited when they saw the Rockies had to play the Dodgers. I wasn't. The Dodgers have just about nothing to play for and it's showing by losing 11 in a row.

 

 

By that logic I'm guessing you weren't worried about them playing the Brewers heading into their series a few weeks ago. The Dodgers haven't had anything to play since the all star break.

 

Their losing streak has nothing to do with them not having anything to play for, it has to do with them struggling. Anyone see Clayton Kershaw screaming and throwing stuff in the dugout after his last loss? Sure didn't look like a guy who didn't care because he had nothing to play for.

 

If anything, when a team is as talented as the Dodgers are, it seems more likely that having no pressure would be a good thing. It just goes to show how unpredictable the game is.

 

I find it difficult to believe anyone saw the Dodgers recent struggles coming before time. Now maybe if you're talking about the final week of the season when a team has locked up their spot in the post-season I can see them taking their foot off the gas, but the Dodgers are throwing Kershaw, Darvish, Bellinger, Seager and all the rest out there every night. This is an early unprecedented collapse/struggles by a dominant team.

[OnTheBlack]

I'm good with the division flags. The WC flag is a bit much.

 

What if they win the second Wild Card, then lose the play-in game? Does the Wild Card 2017 banner still hang proud next to the 2008 one? Yeesh.

 

 

Yes..they should. Qualifying for the playoffs in baseball is no small feat. And I don't know how you make a distinction between when to fly a WC flag. If one year they go one and done and the next they lose in 7 in the NLCS do you only hang one for the second year?

 

It's a small thing and probably mostly inconsequential long term, but you don't get a lot of chances to hang banners or make the playoffs. Certainly not when you were expected to be closer to 90 losses than 90 wins.

[adambr2]

I'm good with the division flags. The WC flag is a bit much.

 

What if they win the second Wild Card, then lose the play-in game? Does the Wild Card 2017 banner still hang proud next to the 2008 one? Yeesh.

 

 

Yes..they should. Qualifying for the playoffs in baseball is no small feat. And I don't know how you make a distinction between when to fly a WC flag. If one year they go one and done and the next they lose in 7 in the NLCS do you only hang one for the second year?

 

It's a small thing and probably mostly inconsequential long term, but you don't get a lot of chances to hang banners or make the playoffs. Certainly not when you were expected to be closer to 90 losses than 90 wins.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I'm not trying to downplay what it would mean for us to make the playoffs this year, because no doubt for THIS team given pre-season expectations, it would be a huge accomplishment.

 

With that said, looking at the bigger scope....33.3% of teams make the playoffs, so just an average franchise averages playoffs one out of every 3 years in this era. Is it diluted as much as the NBA and NHL, no. Is it much 'less' of an accomplishment than it was in the early 90s and prior, yes.

 

The NFL is probably the closest comparable (37.5% of teams to the playoffs). I guess correct me if I'm wrong but I can't imagine there are any indicators hanging up at Lambeau of the 2009 and 2015 Wild Card teams, for example.

 

To me, part of it is simply getting out of that old Brewers mentality of 'we're just happy be to here', and goes along a bit with the overcelebration of the 1982 team.

[Dead Simmons]

Brewers now 3 games back on that second wildcard and 2.5 back on the division. Division is still obviously the easier path as they play their divisional foes down the stretch and those divisional foes have the opportunity to beat on eachother. With the Marlins up next they have a good chance to make up some ground if they can't start beating inferior talent like they should.

 

I had forgotten about the Marlins...MORE to worry about!

[MrTPlush]

NFL is a terrible example because they have a salary cap. Not saying salary caps makes things fair, but it works pretty well in the NFL. We are at a massive disadvantage in the MLB. Wild Cards are a big accomplishment believe it or not for us.

[SomewhereInTime]

NFL is a terrible example because they have a salary cap. Not saying salary caps makes things fair, but it works pretty well in the NFL. We are at a massive disadvantage in the MLB. Wild Cards are a big accomplishment believe it or not for us.

 

I agree with this. Much of the Brewers existence has been in the era of free agency and it's never been a level playing field. Any post season appearance is much tougher and much rarer for a small market team. This is a reason why, given the system, I've never been that angry or dissatisfied with Milwaukee's lack of success.

 

What's funny about the NFL in relation to the Packers, is you have the smallest market, yet due to their past success, the Packers actually have one of the larger national followings and have a lot of money which is to be expected I guess when you're the most successful pro football franchise of all time with 13 titles. In relation to the salary cap though, they've only won one title ('96) during a capped season ('10 was the last year of the CBA and an uncapped year)

 

So if only it was the opposite I guess, cap MLB and uncapped NFL.

[pacopete4]

Well, the Rockies lost so we are 2.5 games out there now.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Unfortunately the Rockies schedule is charmin soft here on out. SD, @SF, @SD, MIA and 3 with the Dodgers when they are going to be resting their starters getting ready for the playoffs. It would take a truly epic collapse for them to blow a 2.5 game lead with that schedule.

[TURBO]

Unfortunately the Rockies schedule is charmin soft here on out. SD, @SF, @SD, MIA and 3 with the Dodgers when they are going to be resting their starters getting ready for the playoffs. It would take a truly epic collapse for them to blow a 2.5 game lead with that schedule.

 

So you are saying there is a chance?

 

[FVBrewerFan]

Unfortunately the Rockies schedule is charmin soft here on out. SD, @SF, @SD, MIA and 3 with the Dodgers when they are going to be resting their starters getting ready for the playoffs. It would take a truly epic collapse for them to blow a 2.5 game lead with that schedule.

 

Were talking about 2.5 games, not 12.5. That wouldn't be an epic collapse. In fact, what's the Rockies strength? Hitting. Look at some of the parks they'll be visiting. Won't take a miracle.

[adambr2]

NFL is a terrible example because they have a salary cap. Not saying salary caps makes things fair, but it works pretty well in the NFL. We are at a massive disadvantage in the MLB. Wild Cards are a big accomplishment believe it or not for us.

 

Not true, we're not at a massive disadvantage. Maybe we were in the past, but our owner and attendance can and has supported a top 10 MLB and 9 figure payroll in a given year. Consistently, we can probably sustain a middle of the pack payroll. No, we're never going to spend like the Dodgers or Yankees, but our owner can and will spend money. We're just not right now because it didn't fit our plan coming into this year.

 

Yes, more money is an advantage, but it's still a very poor excuse to consider finishing in the top third of the league one year to be a massive accomplishment. The Cleveland Indians just rattled off their 22nd consecutive win and have the 17th highest payroll in baseball. The smallest market in baseball won the World Series in 2015, and the A's and Twins have 14 playoff appearances between them this century. Let's stop using not having Dodger or Yankee or Cub money as a crutch and excuse for celebrating lesser accomplishments.

[ZBTMP]

The smallest market in baseball won the World Series in 2015

 

No, we didnt, we had a historically bad month of April and never did anything exciting. What metric are you using to show Kansas City is a smaller market than Milwaukee? Media market size, total market GDP both have Milwaukee as the smallest in baseball.

Population: 5,057,409 Average; 1,555,908 minimum (Milwaukee)

GDP: $291,137,577 Average; $84,574,000 minimum (Milwaukee)

A top 10 payroll is 160 million+. No the Brewers cannot pay that much. Local TV contracts are continuing to grow revenue gaps. The Brewers are in a significant hole to half of baseball before anyone even sells one hot dog, parking pass, or ticket. Sure with the current structure, the Brewers can make a run, but large market teams are getting more efficient.

[adambr2]

The smallest market in baseball won the World Series in 2015

 

No, we didnt, we had a historically bad month of April and never did anything exciting. What metric are you using to show Kansas City is a smaller market than Milwaukee? Media market size, total market GDP both have Milwaukee as the smallest in baseball.

Population: 5,057,409 Average; 1,555,908 minimum (Milwaukee)

GDP: $291,137,577 Average; $84,574,000 minimum (Milwaukee)

A top 10 payroll is 160 million+. No the Brewers cannot pay that much. Local TV contracts are continuing to grow revenue gaps. The Brewers are in a significant hole to half of baseball before anyone even sells one hot dog, parking pass, or ticket. Sure with the current structure, the Brewers can make a run, but large market teams are getting more efficient.

 

I didn't consider Milwaukee the smallest by either metric, because #1, the Brewers aren't really a Milwaukee team, they're a Wisconsin team. I will never understand why people use the small amount of people in Wisconsin as a measuring stick for their market when their base clearly extends well outside of Milwaukee. Using the GDP of Milwaukee itself as a measuring stick for the Brewer marker just doesn't make much sense.

 

Yes, the TV market can't compete with the big boys, but they actually have a larger TV contract than the Royals who I was obviously referring to before.

 

And $160M is likely pushing too much, but I would guess they could easily double their current payroll without operating in the red. They had a beginning 2015 payroll of $104M and turned a $27M profit that year despite a drop in attendance and a 90 loss season. They had a $60M payroll last year and essentially matched that in income.

 

Look, I understand it's a competitive advantage to have more money to spend, I'm not denying that. I just hate using it as an excuse for being content with smaller accomplishments, there ARE small markets winning the World Series. The 0-6 system allows for control of young talent through prime years. The competitive balance lottery exists to try to move the bar back toward the middle. 27% of MLB income is shared to also help smaller markets. We have to be smarter, but there are ways.

[Roderick]

 

They had a beginning 2015 payroll of $104M and turned a $27M profit that year

 

Someone from the Brewers actually stated this somewhere or is it some estimate from some writer? I find that hard to believe, as no private sports ownership ever gives out that much detail. That is why the NFL players union loves the Packers.