Nelson out for the year, will miss time in 2018 (post #150)

[newrivervalley]

Spahn and Sain and pray for rain.

[gregmag]

I asked Will Carroll about this, and he said that Anibal Sanchez is the best case labrum-tear surgery return example.

 

No idea of the extent of Jimmy's injury though, as foamboy stated earlier, still a lot in play. It would truly break my heart - I've been a huge fan of Jimmy since the beginning and know what a great guy he is. He deserves better than this.

 

All of that said, the DH is hot garbage. The two leagues should be the same - DH in neither. About this and defensive indifference also being hot garbage, you will never sway me.

This is OT, but no defense of watching PAs by people who aren't trained to hit should go unanswered. The DH is the most obviously good idea to hit MLB since they started using clean baseballs. No pitcher in MLB should ever hit again unless a stray lightning bolt fries the entire dugout.

[DHonks]

how about another idea...let the NL only have 8 hitters. It preserves a difference between the leagues. I still like the purity of pitchers batting, understand the arguments to have all use DH, but just wanted to say something else

[young guns]

[sarcasm]This thread is triggering me[/sarcasm], everytime i see it i have flashbacks to jordy nelsons injury. As long as it isnt garza im happy. Lets see what jungmann or more especially wilkerson have.

 

As for the dh, i say bring it on. Im done with seeing pitchers hit.

[Never Outhustled]

I'm excited to see Jungman. He's earned his way back, pitching extremely well in an unbelievably tough environment. He been good in streaks before, hopefully he's finally found the consistency.

[JohnBriggs12]

In Jungmann's first 16 major league starts he posted an ERA of 2.42. Heck he was a dark horse ROY candidate in 2015 until he faltered down the stretch. He's coming off a solid AAA season. Could he make 4 solid starts for the Brewers now? I see no reason why he couldn't unless his control issues resurface. His walk rate at AAA was a bit high even this year at 4.1 per 9 IP.

[Devinep]

I'd be OK with Jungman or Peralta, just not Garza but I think we all know it will be. They should have pulled Anderson after the big inning yesterday at 29 pitches with an 8-0 lead and pitched him again Wednesday

[TURBO]

Please, not Peralta and not Garza. ANyone but them and I'm a happy boy!

 

EDIT: Oh, Freddy Peralta, that makes more sense than Wily...lol What was I thinking?

 

[Never Outhustled]

I'd be OK with Jungman or Peralta, just not Garza but I think we all know it will be. They should have pulled Anderson after the big inning yesterday at 29 pitches with an 8-0 lead and pitched him again Wednesday

 

If it wasn't going to be Jungman, he would have pitched game 5 for Colorado Springs today. He didn't.

[DHonks]

I'd like to see Jungmann and Wilkerson in a piggy-back scenario where each is told their objective is to go 4 innings (with flexibility of course). It would eliminate the 3rd time through the order, and give an audition for them.

 

It better not be Guerra. He can't survive an outing without allowing runs

[adambr2]

I know it's easy to say they can't replace Nelson, and they probably can't, but being in a pennant race, they owe it to themselves to try, especially with so many options.

 

Something beyond the norm is necessary now. Jungmann, Wilkerson, Peralta, Burnes, Derby, Hader ... I don't know what the answer is, but trotting out some combo of Garza, Suter and Guerra for 40% of the rest of our games isn't going to get us to the playoffs.

 

Agreed. No more Garza, no more Guerra. Not interested in Jungmann much either. Wilkerson should get the nod for sure. #5? No idea Peralta and Burnes are at with pitch limits, would love to see either. Otherwise maybe Suter/ Hader combo to get you through 6 innings.

 

Also, for those of you saying it's over.....nonsense. wasn't over when Anderson went down, or when Guerra turned out to be bad all year. Wasn't over when bullpen was imploding seemingly every night. And it wasn't over for the past couple months when they have struggled to score more than 2 runs a game.

 

Baseball, in fact sports in general are unpredictable. For all we know, offense heats up the rest of the year, Wilkerson steps right in and pitches great, who knows. What I do know is a win tomorrow puts them 2 games out of 1st.

 

And that it did. I want to clarify (and it seems you already understood this) that I was referring to Freddy Peralta, not Wily.

 

I don't see a single person that wants to see Wily in a Brewer uniform again so I think everyone is referring to Freddy but just clarifying.

[OnTheBlack]

Please, not Peralta and not Garza. ANyone but them and I'm a happy boy!

 

EDIT: Oh, Freddy Peralta, that makes more sense than Wily...lol What was I thinking?

 

 

 

I would honestly go with Wily Peralta myself. I know I'll get killed for this and I know that it PROBABLY wouldn't work, but we need a guy who at least has the potential to step in and perform like a 2/3. Peralta has the stuff. And when he attacks and goes after guys, he's really good. So while it maybe a long shot, I would hope that he could come in, throw strikes...strikes from Peralta lead to outs and he could get on a roll.

 

After that, just in case I haven't made enough heads explode on here, I'd go with Guerra. When he came back, he had one start in which his stuff looked really-really good. He went 5 shutout and then gave up a 3 spot maybe in the 6th, then had another start that was like 4 innings, gave up a 2 run shot and left with a couple guys on and they all came around to score.

 

The final game before he was taken out I was watching. He threw 3 innings, had 4 K's, gave up just 1 hit, but he was nibbling around the strike zone and then he started to really miss with the fastball bouncing a couple.

 

 

So he was certainly not great by any means, but I also didn't think it warranted be taken out of the rotation after the year he had last year.

 

My 3rd option would be Jungman. As mentioned previously, he had a good run as a rookie, then a short stretch where he struggled and hasn't been given another shot. I think we need to be a little bit more patient with our younger guys and a little less with our older guys. I'd take any of these 3 over Garza again.

 

 

I know people will flip out over the Wily idea and I get why, but my reasoning is simple. We need to replace ace like production and while Wily has been MILES away from that, he's got the best stuff out of anyone in AAA or the big league team most likely and at least has a chance to do that. And if he's awful...then at least you're not just doing the same thing by pitching Garza again. I'd rather fail going for it with someone else than fail by going BACK to Garza.

 

 

Also, while I was the one who suggested Burnes about a month ago, I wouldn't want to get him to start throwing again after the year he had and 160 innings, and I wouldn't want to stress Freddy Peralta's arm at this point either. Young guys who thought their season was over getting called up to not only pitch, but to take the spot of Jimmy Nelson are susceptible to over-throwing and probably already suffering a little arm fatigue and too important to the future to bother with now.

 

 

I'll sit back and wait for the meme's and wait for people to clean their screens and keyboards after I endorsed Wily, Junior and Jungman in that order.

 

 

 

Edit-Ok, in fairness, I did NOT see that Wily had just given up 4 earned and 4 BB's in 1 inning to cost CS the game yesterday in their playoff series. Sooo....yeah.

[JosephC]

I'd like to see them go with Jungmann and have him on a short leash. Unfortunately it's likely going to be a few more starts for Garza. But who knows, maybe Garza rises to the challenge and exceeds expectations? He should be plenty motivated, because as of right now I don't think it's a slam-dunk that he gets a major league deal for 2018. Pitching well over the remainder of this season would go a long way in helping his chances.

[pacopete4]

Shouldn't it be someone like Freddy Peralta? If he is added, he would then be playoff eligible. He currently is not because he wasn't on the 40 man on Aug. 31st. You could always add a Jungmann if you wanted to after that but it would great to have more options for that playoff spot and Freddy needs to be added after the season anyways.

[FVBrewerFan]

Haven't seen it anywhere, so just guessing, but I have a feeling FREDDY Peralta and Burnes are shut down for the season. After Anderson, Davies, Woodruff I see three viable options for two spots. Only a couple days off the rest of the way, so I think they really need to go with 5 in the rotation.

 

1) Wilkerson

2) Jungmann

3) Suter/Hader tandem

 

The more I think about it, not sure I even have a strong preference for which two I want to see. Any one of those options could really come through or implode.

[KeithStone53151]

Haven't seen it anywhere, so just guessing, but I have a feeling FREDDY Peralta and Burnes are shut down for the season. After Anderson, Davies, Woodruff I see three viable options for two spots. Only a couple days off the rest of the way, so I think they really need to go with 5 in the rotation.

 

1) Wilkerson

2) Jungmann

3) Suter/Hader tandem

 

The more I think about it, not sure I even have a strong preference for which two I want to see. Any one of those options could really come through or implode.

 

This is spot on, I think any Suter day might have Jeffress piggy back for 2 innings instead of Hader depending on how many lefties in the lineup. I personally want to see Wilkerson get a couple starts. It absolutely cannot be Guerra, that guy is not an MLB quality pitcher. Garza seems likely but man that guy has not been able to keep runs off the board. I suspect it will be Garza and Suter down the stretch, but I'm really really hoping to see Wilkerson get a couple starts. Even if he's fairly lucky, if he were to have 3 good starts from an ERA standpoint at the MLB level to close the season...we could probably get some value in a trade.

[tmwiese55]

I go with Suter in the 4 spot and and then it's their call on Wilkerson/Jungman for the other when needed. I don't know much about Wilkerson's 'stuff', but I guess i'd go with him and just hope that since no one has seen him before that you can get a couple good starts from him. Similar to Jungman's first go around. Either works for me, just please no Garza. He should only pitch if we are getting blown out to eat a few innings.

 

That said, I fully expect them to start Garza.

[pacopete4]

If they start Garza and it blows up again and costs them a playoff spot, both Stearns and Counsell will lose these players trust. At least if I was on the team and it happened, I wouldn't trust a damn thing they did if that scenario were to play itself out.

[FVBrewerFan]

If they start Garza and it blows up again and costs them a playoff spot, both Stearns and Counsell will lose these players trust. At least if I was on the team and it happened, I wouldn't trust a damn thing they did if that scenario were to play itself out.

 

You should have kept it to the speaking for yourself part. By all accounts Garza is highly respected among the players, so they're not going to lose the players trust by starting Garza. During the course of a 162 games season there are many instances where players for any team may not agree with a decision that is made. Would take a lot more that starting Garza to lose the players trust.

 

With all that said, please no more Garza.

[pacopete4]

If they start Garza and it blows up again and costs them a playoff spot, both Stearns and Counsell will lose these players trust. At least if I was on the team and it happened, I wouldn't trust a damn thing they did if that scenario were to play itself out.

 

You should have kept it to the speaking for yourself part. By all accounts Garza is highly respected among the players, so they're not going to lose the players trust by starting Garza. During the course of a 162 games season there are many instances where players for any team may not agree with a decision that is made. Would take a lot more that starting Garza to lose the players trust.

 

With all that said, please no more Garza.

 

I'm guessing that not all 30+ players(I wonder if Sogard has "great respect" for him?) on that team want to see the ball handed to a guy that can't get out of the 3rd inning. You can have great respect for someone and still not want to see them get the ball every 5 days. If it costs them in a big spot, it will have a definite effect on how they view management. And it should. There is just no reason to put Garza out there right now. Either he is hurt or he is finished as a pitcher. A a semi-supporter, I hope it's that he's hurt because it's sad when a player falls off a cliff.

[tmwiese55]

We have no idea on the losing respect for Counsell stuff just discussed. For all we know the players will like it that he's loyal to Garza in that they can trust him to be loyal to them as well even if they struggle. Probably best not to go down that Skip Bayless route of hot takes.

 

Still, I think if we had a poll on this thread we'd get a 100% vote on on "anyone but Garza" for who starts next game.

[FVBrewerFan]

If they start Garza and it blows up again and costs them a playoff spot, both Stearns and Counsell will lose these players trust. At least if I was on the team and it happened, I wouldn't trust a damn thing they did if that scenario were to play itself out.

 

You should have kept it to the speaking for yourself part. By all accounts Garza is highly respected among the players, so they're not going to lose the players trust by starting Garza. During the course of a 162 games season there are many instances where players for any team may not agree with a decision that is made. Would take a lot more that starting Garza to lose the players trust.

 

With all that said, please no more Garza.

 

I'm guessing that not all 30+ players(I wonder if Sogard has "great respect" for him?) on that team want to see the ball handed to a guy that can't get out of the 3rd inning. You can have great respect for someone and still not want to see them get the ball every 5 days. If it costs them in a big spot, it will have a definite effect on how they view management. And it should. There is just no reason to put Garza out there right now. Either he is hurt or he is finished as a pitcher. A a semi-supporter, I hope it's that he's hurt because it's sad when a player falls off a cliff.

 

You have no earthly idea if that is true, and I really doubt that it is. All we heard at the trade deadline from some is how they lost the team because they didn't get a Starting Pitcher. Now they'll lose the players trust by starting Garza? I realize that's how YOU would feel, but don't project how you feel on professional players who have learned to roll with the punches. If Cravy was up, he may have a problem with it I guess...I'll give you that.

[pacopete4]

 

By all accounts Garza is highly respected among the players, so they're not going to lose the players trust by starting Garza.

 

I realize that's how YOU would feel, but don't project how you feel on professional players who have learned to roll with the punches.

 

Isn't that exactly what you are doing but on the other side of the argument? Of course, it is opinion, as is yours. And this is a message board, where opinions are okay to have. Unless that's a new board rule that we are not aware of. We give opinions basically in everything that we post.

 

Done with the pissing match but please refrain from trying to curb my opinions, while giving your own on the message boards, please. Thanks.

[topper09er]

I dont see any way we dont trot Garza out there. They will not bring an unknown into the middle of a pennant race and Garza is the safe choice. CC can do a pathetic interview after the game about how Garza helped get them where they are now blah blah blah. If anyone in the org has the marbles to go with a minor leaguer I will be pretty surprised.

 

Allowing Garza to start might be #3 in my all-time most hated starts of guys who will obviously suck, after Shaun Marcum 2011 NLCS game 6 and Jeff Poop-on game 4 2008 NLDS.

[KeithStone53151]

 

By all accounts Garza is highly respected among the players, so they're not going to lose the players trust by starting Garza.

 

I realize that's how YOU would feel, but don't project how you feel on professional players who have learned to roll with the punches.

 

Isn't that exactly what you are doing but on the other side of the argument? Of course, it is opinion, as is yours. And this is a message board, where opinions are okay to have. Unless that's a new board rule that we are not aware of. We give opinions basically in everything that we post.

 

Done with the pissing match but please refrain from trying to curb my opinions, while giving your own on the message boards, please. Thanks.

 

I'd say the team bounced back pretty well from not acquiring a starting pitcher upgrade. And if you follow the brewers beat writers among other publications, his point about the players having a great respect for Garza is accurate. Both of you guys have an opinion, he included some support for both of his opinions.

 

I tend to agree with him. I know you were one of the people that thought the Brewers would tank mentally because we didn't acquire a SP. These players are professionals. They are paid big dollars to leave it all out on the diamond every day. If you watch the games, they have great attitudes pretty much all the time. They are also in the thick of a playoff chase and just swept the cubs in Wrigley. They are flying about as high as it gets right now, I can't imagine the choice of starting pitcher for one game is going to change that.