Corbin Burnes

[OnTheBlack]

The way this guy has been dominating this year and now with a decent sample size in AA I wonder if there's any shot at all that if the Brewers can stay in the race into September they MIGHT bring Burnes up and use him out of the pen. Similar to how they did with Hader before his recent back to back starts?

 

I know how aggressive this would be and the fact that he now looks like the best young pitcher in the organization(at least still in the minors) and he has a fastball that can hit 96-97 and what's being described as a plus slider...what do you think? I would assume he'd abandon his curve and his changeup and just focus on his two best pitches if he was gonna get the bump. He also, unlike most pitchers this early into their careers shown exceptionally control. Not sure how great his command is but from the numbers....it looks pretty dang good.

 

What are the arguments against? Young pitcher..don't want to stress his arm with a new role this late into the season a year after he was drafted. The roster implications?

 

Or is the biggest one that he simply hasn't had enough time to develop? I think if a guy shows he can dominate AA like he has, he's at least close to being ready and given what we have in the BP, I would think he could make an impact.

 

I realize this is a bit out there, but he seems like a guy who could come up now and get some big outs. I think if we get to 5 games back then it's not even worth discussing, but if we can somehow manage to be within 2-3 games at the outset of September I would have to take him over guys like Drake and Torres in the pen the lst month of the year.

 

 

Thoughts?

[Lathund]

For me it's about a couple of things: Roster implications is one. It means one less spot on the 40-man, which means one less player protected in the rule 5 draft, room for one less offseason signing. Not having to add him until opening day (Or later) gives a lot of flexibility. He'd also not be playoff eligible if he was promoted after sept 1st (If I understand correctly), so if he was a significant contributor to the Brewers getting to the playoffs, he wouldn't be able to contribute once there. Could of course add him before September, someone on the ML roster could always have a timely 10 day minor injury to make room.

 

Maybe he is already good enough to be a major league reliever. He could very well be, I don't know. But he's also a starter with 140 IP this year. And he'd need to learn how to pitch from the bullpen, learn how to adapt to major league hitters in the middle of a pennant race. It's one thing having the raw ability to do the job, another thing doing it under these circumstances.

 

I think he could well be decent, but I don't think the overall benefit it gives is enough to warrant starting his clock and worsening the roster crunch this offseason. Nor do I really think it's the best move for his development. We don't need to rush things. He started the year in A+ and has done everything right, exceeding all expectations both there and in AA. Let him finish out the season as a starter, getting to the # of innings our staff wants. Invite him to camp next year, but likely have him start in AAA regardless next year; If he impresses in camp and early in AAA, have him as the first callup when a spot opens up. That's about the most aggressive I'd be with him right now. There are players in the high minors running out of options who I'd like to be given a look before we need to make a decision on them, I'd rather prioritize that atm.

 

tl;dr

Potentially decent short term move, not a fan in the long term.

[adambr2]

I brought this up in the bullpen thread the other day. As Lathund mentioned, there are some drawbacks, as it'll cost you someone on the 40 right now, unless you can find justification to send someone to the 60 day DL. Even then, you'll have to go forward in 2018 with Burnes on the 40 man.

 

Indeed he's a guy you definitely want in your rotation eventually, so you don't want to mess with his development too much. Most likely you could let him finish out the year in the pen and then start 2018 in the AA or AAA rotation to continue his development, and he'd be fine, so sticking him on the 40 this early in his career and having one less 40 spot going foward is probably the biggest drawback.

 

I do think he's a guy who could be an effective MLB reliever right now. In the end I don't think they probably see enough of a benefit out of a few September innings from him right now to outweigh the drawbacks. Frankly, I kind of doubt that Counsell would trust him with any critical innings yet anyway.

[shanedog19]

The way I see it, we weren't expected to contend this year and are playing with house money at this point. I'd throw a crazy high upside rotation out there come September 1 and see what happens. I'd go Nelson, Anderson, Davies, Burnes, and Woodruff, and send Garza to the bullpen for long relief. If it doesn't pan out, so what? Burnes gets a taste of the big leagues for next year, and we may have a preview of what our rotation could look like next year. I'd personally rather see Burnes skip Colorado Springs, seeing as what that place has done to some of our other pitching prospects. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of having Hader be an ultra weapon coming out of the bullpen a la Andrew Miller.

[monty57]

Taking the potential negatives from the previous posts into consideration, it then becomes a case of marginal utility. Will he provide enough excess return to justify the potential downside? I would say that over the 10-15 innings he'd get in September, the answer to that would be "no."

 

The expanded rosters are generally for bringing up guys who are already on the 40-man roster and can give the team a boost. If Burns was already on the 40 man, then it might make sense to bring him up, but adding a potentially good future starter to the 40-man and starting his clock before he's probably ready for it may not be good roster management or good for Burns' long-term future with the Brewers.

[shanedog19]

To put things into context, Chris Sale was in the big leagues the same year he was drafted. Not comparing Burnes to Sale, but its not unheard of to make that quick of a jump to the big leagues.

[Outlander]

Roster management is a key reason. If he doesn't do that great then they added him to the 40 man for the entire off season for no reason and will burn an option once he goes to AA or AAA next year. If he does do great then he will likely stick in the rotation to start next year as well which results in one less year of team control. If they were in serious contention for a World Series they might consider it but the Brewers playoff chances are fading. Now if the Brewers are in it with a couple of weeks to play and there is a major injury to somebody like Nelson then Burnes might be the right call and would be eligible for the post season.

[OnaBadger58]

Looking at what's in the bullpen right now, it's hard to imagine he wouldn't be an instant upgrade. The big drawback is putting him on the 40 man, but it will likely have to happen next year anyways. There are enough marginal players on the 40 man where it's not the end of the world to add him this year. If they don't want to add him to the 40 man, I think Taylor Williams deserves a shot in the pen this year. I don't know what his innings limit is since he's coming off of TJ surgery however.

[OnTheBlack]

Looking at what's in the bullpen right now, it's hard to imagine he wouldn't be an instant upgrade. The big drawback is putting him on the 40 man, but it will likely have to happen next year anyways. There are enough marginal players on the 40 man where it's not the end of the world to add him this year. If they don't want to add him to the 40 man, I think Taylor Williams deserves a shot in the pen this year. I don't know what his innings limit is since he's coming off of TJ surgery however.

 

 

Yeah, but I think the point that others are making and one of the biggest reservations I had about this is those spots are going to be more important this next off-season than they have been in a while. I would say it's at least a part of the reason why we made the Copper trade with the Yankees. Might as well try and get something for him now before you lose him in the rule 5.

 

As for Taylor Williams...anyone who's dominating at Biloxi should be considered. But I don't want to see him out there where he could be put in any situations where they're pushing him at all...something that's going to almost certainly going to happen. Trying to get him through an inning and having him throw extra pitches...I would guess he's on a pretty regimented routine right now. I do wonder with him if they ever try to get him back to being a starter.

[Mr Southpaw]

If there was a guy I would put on the 40 man roster, it would be Nick Ramirez. He needs to be put there during the off season anyway, so why not just call him up and see what he can do. Corbin could then get called up to AAA and paly in the playoffs with CS.

[trwi7]

I doubt we put Nick Ramirez on the 40 man. A 28 year old reliever with basically no upside is not a player we should be using a 40 man spot on. Good story, if some other teams wants him, that's cool but it shouldn't be us.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Well, we just picked up Aaron Brooks and we have Oliver Drake and Ty Webb on the 40 man now. All are his age or older with similar "upside". Personally, I'd take a shot on Ramirez. A Loogy (or better) who can PH and hit HRs. That seems like ok upside.

[jerichoholicninja]

I doubt we put Nick Ramirez on the 40 man. A 28 year old reliever with basically no upside is not a player we should be using a 40 man spot on. Good story, if some other teams wants him, that's cool but it shouldn't be us.

 

A LHP holding LHB to a .174 average and overall .202 average against after his first year of pitching is not just a "good story" to throw away. Especially considering the trash taking up 40 man spots right now.

[Austin Tatious]

I wonder if Taylor can be in Milwaukee from the jump next year. I've been really high on him and hope he can fulfill his promise.

[adambr2]

Couldn't Brinson be placed on the 60 day DL to free up a spot on the 40? He's unlikely to return this season anyway.

[pacopete4]

Couldn't Brinson be placed on the 60 day DL to free up a spot on the 40? He's unlikely to return this season anyway.

 

I think another poster mentioned this (and I could be wrong) but that if they do that, the Brewers are on the hook with paying him a lot more money than they would if they just have him ride the rest of the season out. Might get the MLB wage for 60 days?

[monty57]

Players on the 60 day DL are paid as major leaguers and accrue MLB service time.

 

As to the Ramirez idea, when the season is over, impending free agents will drop off the 40-man, freeing up space. Right now, we would need to dfa someone in order to add someone else. Also, we would use up an option if we add him now instead of after the season. Not saying we couldn't do it, but there may be reasons to wait until after the season.

[TURBO]

The way I see it, we weren't expected to contend this year and are playing with house money at this point. I'd throw a crazy high upside rotation out there come September 1 and see what happens. I'd go Nelson, Anderson, Davies, Burnes, and Woodruff, and send Garza to the bullpen for long relief. If it doesn't pan out, so what? Burnes gets a taste of the big leagues for next year, and we may have a preview of what our rotation could look like next year. I'd personally rather see Burnes skip Colorado Springs, seeing as what that place has done to some of our other pitching prospects. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of having Hader be an ultra weapon coming out of the bullpen a la Andrew Miller.

 

Garza to the bullpen? We saw what happened with that last year, big baby took his ball and went home... Real team player.

 

I don't want Garza back here next year in any capacity. Send him packing and let someone else have him...

[CheezWizHed]

I don't want Garza back here next year in any capacity. Send him packing and let someone else have him...

 

I tend to think Garza is decent in an SP role and is worth the $5M option. But the best use of him would be to trade him off to another team and promote... Corbin Burnes (see how I pulled the thread back on topic? )

[jerichoholicninja]

The way I see it, we weren't expected to contend this year and are playing with house money at this point. I'd throw a crazy high upside rotation out there come September 1 and see what happens. I'd go Nelson, Anderson, Davies, Burnes, and Woodruff, and send Garza to the bullpen for long relief. If it doesn't pan out, so what? Burnes gets a taste of the big leagues for next year, and we may have a preview of what our rotation could look like next year. I'd personally rather see Burnes skip Colorado Springs, seeing as what that place has done to some of our other pitching prospects. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of having Hader be an ultra weapon coming out of the bullpen a la Andrew Miller.

 

Garza to the bullpen? We saw what happened with that last year, big baby took his ball and went home... Real team player.

 

I don't want Garza back here next year in any capacity. Send him packing and let someone else have him...

 

Last year he had a wife in a high risk pregnancy with twins half a country away and this team was going no where. While he didn't exactly handle it the right way I have no problem with him going home.

[LouisEly]

Garza to the bullpen? We saw what happened with that last year, big baby took his ball and went home... Real team player.

You're encroaching on Briggs/Scooter Gennett territory. Give it a rest and let it go, just like everyone else has.

 

Nick Ramirez was the closer at Cal-State Fullerton, one of the most prominent college baseball programs in the country. He isn't someone trying pitching because he can't hit and has a good arm. He was a pitcher in college, and a darned good one.

[markedman5]

Stearns basically ruled out calling up Burnes in Sept in the JS article today.

[OnTheBlack]

Stearns basically ruled out calling up Burnes in Sept in the JS article today.

 

 

That's probably for the best. The more I think about it, let him hit 150 innings and go into the off-season on a positive note. Throwing him into the pen at this point probably provides more risk that reward. Hopefully he can start out next year like he's finishing this year and we'll see him in Milwaukee every 5th day at some point next year June or later.

[markedman5]