Villar starting in CF

[JohnBriggs12]

it is very easy to underestimate just how talented Villar is.... myself included. Talent like that, you want to give him a long leash. He was extremely valuable in 2016 and is flashing signs of that talent again lately

 

The leash cannot be longer.

Others struggle and get demoted......quite a few actually this year. Villar plays regularly, leads off, fills in at center, and is treated like he is his 2016 version. Fact is, if he had an option, he isn't here. That is what I cannot get passed.

 

Couldn't agree more. I don't get the "Villar is so talented stuff". So talented? He was never ranked above 94th as a prospect and that was one year by one ranking service. He was brought up in Houston when they were in full tanking mode because he was all they had at the time. Houston gave him up for Cy (not Young) Sneed. He had a career year in 2016 at age 25. He caught the league off guard with his aggressive style and had an extremely high BABIP. He also led baseball in errors and fanned 174 times. Teams adjusted to his style and found ways to induce soft contact when he wasn't striking out which he still does a ton for a guy with modest power.

 

Old timers remember Pedro Garcia. He was 2nd in AL ROY race in 1973 after leading the league in doubles and banging out 15 HR which was a lot for a 2B in those days. Villar's decline reminds me of Garcia. Garcia's inability to make contact caught up with him. Same with Villar.

[monty57]

Villar was named the starter during the offseason because of what he did last year. That was understandable. With the way he played, he got benched for Sogard and the Brewers then traded for Walker to start at 2B. I don't see how the Brewers are mid-using him or giving him any special favors. We shouldn't read too much into one start in CF in order to get a LH bat in the lineup vs a guy who has troubles against lefties. If it does open up the possibility that he can play OF, and that adds more value whether we use him in the "super sub" role or trade him away.

[clancyphile]

A super-sub like Villar is valuable because he provides options in case of injury, not to mention a little roster flexibility as well.

 

I don't think he is as bad as 2017 shows, but maybe 2016 was his career year. Something in-between maybe where the "true" Villar is offensively. Maybe not a world-beating starter, but as an injury replacement or a late-game sub, it's still a net asset.

 

EDIT: Think of Villar and Perez as the centerpieces of a baseball equivalent to the "Bench Mob" the Chicago Bulls had a few years ago.

[pacopete4]

I'm over Perez. I can't handle his stat line for another full season. He just simply refuses to work a count and get on base more. Hopefully Stearns find someone else.

[adambr2]

I'm over Perez. I can't handle his stat line for another full season. He just simply refuses to work a count and get on base more. Hopefully Stearns find someone else.

 

Yeah, I don't have much use for Perez. It's too bad because every other part of his game is adequate. He can play anywhere in the field adequately, is an alright hitter with some pop. If he were a .258 hitter with a .328 OBP, he'd be a nice valuable player. 258 with a .286 OBP is just horrible.

 

Maybe it's Dubon next year. He profiles as a utility backup.

 

With Perez being a minimum salary guy I'm not totally opposed to keeping him around as a utility player next year but it doesn't look like he'll ever walk. He's actually showing less patience than last year.

[clancyphile]

I'm over Perez. I can't handle his stat line for another full season. He just simply refuses to work a count and get on base more. Hopefully Stearns find someone else.

 

Yeah, I don't have much use for Perez. It's too bad because every other part of his game is adequate. He can play anywhere in the field adequately, is an alright hitter with some pop. If he were a .258 hitter with a .328 OBP, he'd be a nice valuable player. 258 with a .286 OBP is just horrible.

 

Maybe it's Dubon next year. He profiles as a utility backup.

 

With Perez being a minimum salary guy I'm not totally opposed to keeping him around as a utility player next year but it doesn't look like he'll ever walk. He's actually showing less patience than last year.

 

Perez has actually reduced his strikeouts as a percentage of PAs from 21.86% in 2016 (94 in 430 PAs) to 16.8% in 2017 (63 in 375 PAs). He's making more contact, the ball's just being fielded and turned into outs. He plays seven positions (all three OF, all four IF). He can steal up to 30 bases, and he has pretty good power. He can fill in if someone gets hurt, he can give anyone a day off, if they need a double-switch, he's there.

 

If the Brewers can get a relatively cheap 5-6 years deal (say, $3-4 million a year) that buys out the arby years and 2-3 free agent years, Perez becomes an immensely valuable asset.

 

The same can go for Villar as well. This year, his BABIP is only .307. In three of his past major league seasons, it's been over .360, and his career BABIP is .338. If he returns to his career average, his versatility (playing SS, 3B, 2B, LF, CF) becomes valuable. He's also able to steal a minimum of 20 bases, and he does flash substantial power and switch-hits. Again it may be worth buying out his arby and a couple free-agent years at $3-4 million per year.

 

Now we have the nucleus of a "Bench Mob." Think of it this way - we have starting talent. So will big-market teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, and Cubs. The Brewers, though, need to think more outside the box. A "Bench Mob" is probably one wya to go. Get very versatile guys who have one or two reasonably plus tools...

[Lathund]

I'm happy to keep Perez around as long as he is used as that super utility man only, not the primary backup for several positions. He has a .286 OBP, OPS+ of 82. That's not someone you want to give 400 PAs like we have in both 2016 and 2017. Very useful to have for double switches, pinch hitting (and pinch running) or defensive substitutions which all add value, but I'd like to see someone else as the primary backup for most positions; except maybe SS/2B. So I'd like to see 4 from Braun/Broxton/Santana/Brinson/Phillips in the OF and a corner infield type on the bench (Or a Neil Walker). If we have that, and those players are the ones who come in when someone needs a day off, then I'm fine with Perez to fill any holes beyond that.

 

But yeah, perhaps Villar will be the one to fulfill that role going forward. It might be tough to justify keeping both around in that role though; if Villar doesn't stake a claim to be the starting 2B during the rest of the season (or fall/winter ball), there might be some tough decisions going forward.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm over Perez. I can't handle his stat line for another full season. He just simply refuses to work a count and get on base more. Hopefully Stearns find someone else.

 

Yeah, I don't have much use for Perez. It's too bad because every other part of his game is adequate. He can play anywhere in the field adequately, is an alright hitter with some pop. If he were a .258 hitter with a .328 OBP, he'd be a nice valuable player. 258 with a .286 OBP is just horrible.

 

Maybe it's Dubon next year. He profiles as a utility backup.

 

With Perez being a minimum salary guy I'm not totally opposed to keeping him around as a utility player next year but it doesn't look like he'll ever walk. He's actually showing less patience than last year.

 

Perez has actually reduced his strikeouts as a percentage of PAs from 21.86% in 2016 (94 in 430 PAs) to 16.8% in 2017 (63 in 375 PAs). He's making more contact, the ball's just being fielded and turned into outs. He plays seven positions (all three OF, all four IF). He can steal up to 30 bases, and he has pretty good power. He can fill in if someone gets hurt, he can give anyone a day off, if they need a double-switch, he's there.

 

If the Brewers can get a relatively cheap 5-6 years deal (say, $3-4 million a year) that buys out the arby years and 2-3 free agent years, Perez becomes an immensely valuable asset.

 

The same can go for Villar as well. This year, his BABIP is only .307. In three of his past major league seasons, it's been over .360, and his career BABIP is .338. If he returns to his career average, his versatility (playing SS, 3B, 2B, LF, CF) becomes valuable. He's also able to steal a minimum of 20 bases, and he does flash substantial power and switch-hits. Again it may be worth buying out his arby and a couple free-agent years at $3-4 million per year.

 

Now we have the nucleus of a "Bench Mob." Think of it this way - we have starting talent. So will big-market teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, and Cubs. The Brewers, though, need to think more outside the box. A "Bench Mob" is probably one wya to go. Get very versatile guys who have one or two reasonably plus tools...

 

Contact isn't the problem. The problem is that he has no discipline and swings at everything.

[rickh150]

it is very easy to underestimate just how talented Villar is.... myself included. Talent like that, you want to give him a long leash. He was extremely valuable in 2016 and is flashing signs of that talent again lately

 

The leash cannot be longer.

Others struggle and get demoted......quite a few actually this year. Villar plays regularly, leads off, fills in at center, and is treated like he is his 2016 version. Fact is, if he had an option, he isn't here. That is what I cannot get passed.

 

You honestly want him gone, DFA'd? You want to see him a year for now being a productive player for one of the other MLB teams while we get absolutely nothing for him?

 

Still can trade him.... run him thru the waiver wire and get something for him if he has all this potential talent. He's "Wang"ing (2014) up our bench now. Like I said earlier in a different thread, I didn't like Villar's game last year with Molitor like stats. Too many K's, eh defense, and beyond poor baserunning clouded my view of him last year.

[Ennder]

Villar was handled just fine. He struggled early, lost playing time to Sogard, got hot in June so recaptured some playing time, stunk in July so we traded for Walker and has been good in August. They sat him at the appropriate times and gave him more playing time at the appropriate times. Patience is very important in baseball because it is such a high variance sport. The biggest negative I have with him is they should have moved him down in the lineup much earlier than they did.

[djoctagone]

for the second straight game, villar is starting in center. craig counsell is certainly looking for ways to ride his hot bat right now.

[jerichoholicninja]

More about stacking with non-RHB. If he was riding hot bats Phillips wouldn't be in there.