Brewers Trade for Neil Walker

[bill hAll Star]

I don't think you guys are understanding this.

 

I'm strongly assuming that Mark Attanasio has earmarked about $90-100 million (or a little bit more) per season when the Brewers are competitive. That's how it has gone in the past. It's a year-to-year thing. If we have a $60 million payroll this year that doesn't mean he'll add $40 million a few years from now if we really need it.

 

Knowing that, the Brewers have every offensive position but maybe 2B solved or it has a young player that clearly has the position locked for next year and probably 2019. The rotation could be improved but we have plenty of depth. RP is a weakness.

 

The Brewers have $50-60 million tied up in the majority of their roster for each 2018 and 2019. You're telling me that if Mark Attanasio has earmarked $100 million for those rosters. You're telling me that you'd decline short-term signings of earmarked money? There is no conceivable downside to this save for the veterans being worse than potential replacements.

 

Most people are simply saying don't make a bad deal just to spend all the money earmarked for this year. I don't think anyone is opposed to addressing areas of need by signing quality players to fair value contracts.

 

You're really just arguing semantics. Fair value for a veteran is generally overpaying them when you compare it to the production we're getting from Arcia or Shaw as compared to their pay.

 

I'd love to sign all fair value contracts and I know that's what Stearns is going to do. That's still going to be on the order of $5, $10, up to $15 million/year for some guys to help short-term.

 

I'm saying use the excess space to fill positional needs. There are 29 other teams competing for the services of a bunch of non-elite relief pitchers in the next few offseasons. They'll be overpaid but productive and very necessary.

[Humans Need Water]

If Villar is bouncing back and getting closer to what he's capable of then signing a vet at 2b in the offseason bumping him to the backup spot makes zero sense. Villar has 3yrs control, is very dynamic, has 20HR power with 50SB speed, switch hitter with SS range/arm at the 2b position. That's valuable and will bring a very good return once traded after 2018. Dubon can step in for 2019 or they can sign a vet for 1yr until Hiura or Diaz are ready. Signing someone like Walker to a 2-3yr deal putting Villar on the bench just kills his return value. The 2015/2016 Villar is better than those solid vets anyway.

[bill hAll Star]

If Villar is bouncing back and getting closer to what he's capable of then signing a vet at 2b in the offseason bumping him to the backup spot makes zero sense. Villar has 3yrs control, is very dynamic, has 20HR power with 50SB speed, switch hitter with SS range/arm at the 2b position. That's valuable and will bring a very good return once traded after 2018. Dubon can step in for 2019 or they can sign a vet for 1yr until Hiura or Diaz are ready. Signing someone like Walker to a 2-3yr deal putting Villar on the bench just kills his return value. The 2015/2016 Villar is better than those solid vets anyway.

 

If that's your opinion on Villar, that's fine, it is possible to stick with him and allocate the money elsewhere. I am saying that it's time to sign some vets to fill the few remaining holes on this team. It costs essentially zero prospects to do so.

 

I think people are confusing the smart, homegrown approach that is necessary and I 100% support and what that approach actually provides. If vets are willing to come for 2, maybe 3 years to the Brewers, this is what the homegrown approach provides for a few years. You have some money to spend to keep your own guys or get external vets. In our case, we don't have to worry about re-signing anyone of importance for at least 2 offseasons.

[adambr2]

Walker is probably going to cost around a 3 year deal for $15M a year or so. To me there's better use of our resources especially with our 2B depth on the farm. I'd rather give Villar one more shot in 2018 and use the money elsewhere.

 

Swarzak at maybe 2/$10M or 2/$12M is something I would be interested in, but I really have no idea what his market will be.

[3and2Fastball]

Walker is probably going to cost around a 3 year deal for $15M a year or so. To me there's better use of our resources especially with our 2B depth on the farm. I'd rather give Villar one more shot in 2018 and use the money elsewhere.

 

Swarzak at maybe 2/$10M or 2/$12M is something I would be interested in, but I really have no idea what his market will be.

 

Strongly agree. The free agent market as it is will nothing special, as the game trends younger & younger. However if I was going to spend money in free agency I would spend it on pitching

[monty57]

I like using free agency for things like role players and relief pitchers. It's when we try to fill important roles through free agency that we could really get burned. That said, I think that Walker will probably be too expensive for his marginal contribution to the team for us to consider signing him beyond this year.

 

Even if it's only for three years, signing him to something like $17M / year could hamper the franchise. He turns 31 next month, so he's on the downward side of his career. That could be an untradeable contract in a year or two, and if we have better options at that time, that would be a lot of money to simply "eat." Therefore, even if we have "excess money," I don't think this would be the best way to use it.

 

I'm glad we got him for this season, but I'd let him walk at seasons' end.

[bill hAll Star]

Walker is probably going to cost around a 3 year deal for $15M a year or so. To me there's better use of our resources especially with our 2B depth on the farm. I'd rather give Villar one more shot in 2018 and use the money elsewhere.

 

Swarzak at maybe 2/$10M or 2/$12M is something I would be interested in, but I really have no idea what his market will be.

 

I agree with a lot of this. I've been one of the people that was vocal asking for Villar to get all of 2017 to figure it out. I still think he can, but I've seen enough of his struggles where I'm not sure of it for 2018.

 

I don't think Walker is "worth" that, though I continue to ask where, other than bullpen, where only so much money can be spent, would one want to spend the money? The detail about 3 years is the possible sticking point in this.

 

I think they'll bring back Swarzak, buy another bullpen arm (maybe 2), and do something like sign Walker.

 

Villar and Perez can both be super-utility guys off the bench and when there is an inevitable injury, basically any of it will be covered.

 

Those praying for a $55 million payroll so that they have nobody besides Braun if he's hurt to be mad at for being overpaid will be...mad...at this offseason.

 

It doesn't have to be Walker but they're going to spend on 2 or 3 veterans on shorter contracts.

[bill hAll Star]

Even if it's only for three years, signing him to something like $17M / year could hamper the franchise.

 

The 3rd year could be an issue if somebody this offseason gets a big deal for 3 seasons.

 

But I guess my question beyond that is, how will it hamper the franchise?

 

There may be an unlikely situation where some ace is available at the deadline but we can't absorb a $25 million/year deal for 2 seasons but otherwise (again, strongly assuming Mark will spend his usual amount) I don't really know how it will hamper the franchise.

[JohnBriggs12]

Walker is not going to command anything close to $15 million a year. He'll ask for around 3 years $33 million range, but will have to settle for 2 years in the $17 million ($8.5 mil per year) range with an option. Brewers could be a match at that number. Hoping Villar rebounds is foolish. If you put all your eggs in his basket and he's hitting .220 on Mothers Day again next year, then what do you do? Villar isn't solid enough defensively to be a utility option either.

[FVBrewerFan]

Walker is not going to command anything close to $15 million a year. He'll ask for around 3 years $33 million range, but will have to settle for 2 years in the $17 million ($8.5 mil per year) range with an option. Brewers could be a match at that number. Hoping Villar rebounds is foolish. If you put all your eggs in his basket and he's hitting .220 on Mothers Day again next year, then what do you do? Villar isn't solid enough defensively to be a utility option either.

 

Villar played at an All-Star level for an entire season last year. That's not a hot streak for a month in 2014, that was for an entire season just last year. He's already shown signs recently of breaking out of his funk. Will he ever be close to the player he was in 2016? No, we don't know.

 

But all the eggs wouldn't be in that basket, Dubon is an option. Not to mention other options they can pursue in the off-season.

[KeithStone53151]

Walker is not going to command anything close to $15 million a year. He'll ask for around 3 years $33 million range, but will have to settle for 2 years in the $17 million ($8.5 mil per year) range with an option. Brewers could be a match at that number. Hoping Villar rebounds is foolish. If you put all your eggs in his basket and he's hitting .220 on Mothers Day again next year, then what do you do? Villar isn't solid enough defensively to be a utility option either.

 

I disagree with you on this one Briggs. I looked back a couple years and tried finding a comp. 2016-17 had next to no middle infielders on the market that signed to big deals. Justin Turner got 4/64 and Luis Valbuena got 2/15(most thought he'd get like 3/30 i believe). 2015-16 saw Zobrist get 4/56, Daniel Murphy get 3/37.5, and Howie Kendrick get 2/20. Murphy and Kendrick were on a QO, so I think they were then tied to draft pick compensation as well driving down their values. Murphy is probably the best comp for Walker at that point(he's worlds better now but at that point they were statistically very comparable). I suspect he would have gotten a bigger deal without the QO, and that was 2 years ago with 2 other solid 2b on the market and he got 12.5/year. This year, Walker will be the best 2b on the market with a pretty significant dropoff beyond him. 15 million is probably very reasonable, and it could be more depending on which teams are involved in the bidding.

[bill hAll Star]

Walker is not going to command anything close to $15 million a year. He'll ask for around 3 years $33 million range, but will have to settle for 2 years in the $17 million ($8.5 mil per year) range with an option. Brewers could be a match at that number. Hoping Villar rebounds is foolish. If you put all your eggs in his basket and he's hitting .220 on Mothers Day again next year, then what do you do? Villar isn't solid enough defensively to be a utility option either.

 

Villar played at an All-Star level for an entire season last year. That's not a hot streak for a month in 2014, that was for an entire season just last year. He's already shown signs recently of breaking out of his funk. Will he ever be close to the player he was in 2016? No, we don't know.

 

But all the eggs wouldn't be in that basket, Dubon is an option. Not to mention other options they can pursue in the off-season.

 

I hate to mostly be in Briggs' camp, but I am kinda on his side here and I'm a Villar fan. Not sure I agree that Walker will come so cheap, but there is some considerable risk at 2B next season and possibly 2019.

 

Dubon looks like a younger version of Hernan Perez (that may be optimistic). I think Villar can sort it out but there is also a strong chance that he's going to put up another .680 OPS season with a ton of Ks in 2018.

 

If Neil Walker signs a 2/$25 million deal and becomes a glorified infield utility guy with some pop because Villar catches fire and returns to 2016 I will not mind one bit.

 

I say that above sentence because the chances are probably greater that Villar struggles or Dubon is just a guy and Walker is a 3-4 WAR player for 2 seasons. I'm willing to take that "risk" because looking at the Brewers' payroll and current roster, there is literally no risk.

[monty57]

Even if it's only for three years, signing him to something like $17M / year could hamper the franchise.

 

The 3rd year could be an issue if somebody this offseason gets a big deal for 3 seasons.

 

But I guess my question beyond that is, how will it hamper the franchise?

 

There may be an unlikely situation where some ace is available at the deadline but we can't absorb a $25 million/year deal for 2 seasons but otherwise (again, strongly assuming Mark will spend his usual amount) I don't really know how it will hamper the franchise.

 

I tried to think of a good word to use, and "hampered" was as good as I could come up with.

 

I'll use the term "excess cash," by which I mean the difference between the amount of money available to spend on payroll less the amount of money actually committed to payroll. Excess cash is a tool, and it should be used wisely. In some cases, it makes sense to use the excess cash to sign a FA, while in other cases it's better to not spend the money and let a prospect get his shot.

 

The Brewers should have plenty of excess cash over at least the next few seasons, and I hope they implement a strategy where they normally have excess cash. They could run out of "excess cash" if they commit themselves to too many contracts, so a couple of ways this hypothetical contract could do harm:

 

1) They sign multiple guys to deals like this, filling up all of their "excess cash." One of these deals may not seem like a lot, but it only takes three $15M deals to eat up $45M/year of "excess cash." That limits our flexibility for making deals going forward, and I'd rather not use up this money on aging vets who provide limited marginal upside.

 

2) At his age, he could hit the wall at any time. If he goes downhill in year two of the deal, we may not want to "eat" $17-$34M, so he could be kept on the roster even if he stinks while a better option sits in AAA waiting for the contract to run out.

 

3) Akin to #2 above, $17M may guarantee him a starting role beyond the time he deserves it. Even if Walker is still playing okay, if someone like Dubon is a better option in 2019, would we use Walker as a $17M bench bat?

 

One 3 year / $17M per year contract would not cripple this franchise, but it could do harm. We would really be looking at Walker as an answer for one year, as we have prospects who should be ready to take over before too long, and Walker is almost 32. If we could get him on a one-year deal, which seems unlikely, I'd be all for it. I'd pass on a multi-year deal for him.

[patrickgpe]

I'd be a fan of bringing Walker back for a 1-2 year contract. 3 max. There is plenty of room to spend the next few years.

 

I think the issue is, depending on what Neil wants, this is his last year to cash in on a 3-5 year contract.

 

I'd pay a higher dollar value to make it a 2-year contract.

i think this depends on how Villar performs the last 40 games. I think Stearns and Counsell still hasn't given up on JV. I would love to have Walker back but Villar is 5 years younger.

[bill hAll Star]

Even if it's only for three years, signing him to something like $17M / year could hamper the franchise.

 

The 3rd year could be an issue if somebody this offseason gets a big deal for 3 seasons.

 

But I guess my question beyond that is, how will it hamper the franchise?

 

There may be an unlikely situation where some ace is available at the deadline but we can't absorb a $25 million/year deal for 2 seasons but otherwise (again, strongly assuming Mark will spend his usual amount) I don't really know how it will hamper the franchise.

 

I tried to think of a good word to use, and "hampered" was as good as I could come up with.

 

I'll use the term "excess cash," by which I mean the difference between the amount of money available to spend on payroll less the amount of money actually committed to payroll. Excess cash is a tool, and it should be used wisely. In some cases, it makes sense to use the excess cash to sign a FA, while in other cases it's better to not spend the money and let a prospect get his shot.

 

The Brewers should have plenty of excess cash over at least the next few seasons, and I hope they implement a strategy where they normally have excess cash. They could run out of "excess cash" if they commit themselves to too many contracts, so a couple of ways this hypothetical contract could do harm:

 

1) They sign multiple guys to deals like this, filling up all of their "excess cash." One of these deals may not seem like a lot, but it only takes three $15M deals to eat up $45M/year of "excess cash." That limits our flexibility for making deals going forward, and I'd rather not use up this money on aging vets who provide limited marginal upside.

 

2) At his age, he could hit the wall at any time. If he goes downhill in year two of the deal, we may not want to "eat" $17-$34M, so he could be kept on the roster even if he stinks while a better option sits in AAA waiting for the contract to run out.

 

3) Akin to #2 above, $17M may guarantee him a starting role beyond the time he deserves it. Even if Walker is still playing okay, if someone like Dubon is a better option in 2019, would we use Walker as a $17M bench bat?

 

One 3 year / $17M per year contract would not cripple this franchise, but it could do harm. We would really be looking at Walker as an answer for one year, as we have prospects who should be ready to take over before too long, and Walker is almost 32. If we could get him on a one-year deal, which seems unlikely, I'd be all for it. I'd pass on a multi-year deal for him.

 

Given that we have a lot of known or assumed commodities at C, 1B, SS, 3B, all OF spots, and the SP rotation, let me present this idea:

 

Walker is a very good 2B (3.5 WAR, 3.5 WAR) then is more of a utility bat in 2020 (his 3rd year under contract) as Hiura takes over 2B. Villar ends up being closer to 2017 than 2016 and Dubon is a AAAA player.

 

The Brewers still have room to add relief pitching, a random starter to fill in in the rotation, and lose zero free agents that they'd be concerned about losing (basically nobody is a free agent until after 2020 anyways).

 

Is there anything wrong with this other than Walker is overpaid at $12 million/year as a utility player in 2020?

 

The only way this goes sideways is if they sign Walker and jettison Villar and Villar returns to 2016 form or Huira shoots up the prospect rankings but is blocked for 2019 when he would have been a better option, which I doubt will even be an issue...and even if it is, I think Hiura could just take over.

 

For the record, I'm not necessarily a giant fan of Neil Walker. I'm a big fan of plugging holes in competitive years when it does literally nothing to hamper your ability to maintain the players that you want to 3, 4, 5 years down the road and likely does not block anything substantial on your major league roster.

[FVBrewerFan]

Walker is not going to command anything close to $15 million a year. He'll ask for around 3 years $33 million range, but will have to settle for 2 years in the $17 million ($8.5 mil per year) range with an option. Brewers could be a match at that number. Hoping Villar rebounds is foolish. If you put all your eggs in his basket and he's hitting .220 on Mothers Day again next year, then what do you do? Villar isn't solid enough defensively to be a utility option either.

 

Villar played at an All-Star level for an entire season last year. That's not a hot streak for a month in 2014, that was for an entire season just last year. He's already shown signs recently of breaking out of his funk. Will he ever be close to the player he was in 2016? No, we don't know.

 

But all the eggs wouldn't be in that basket, Dubon is an option. Not to mention other options they can pursue in the off-season.

 

I hate to mostly be in Briggs' camp, but I am kinda on his side here and I'm a Villar fan. Not sure I agree that Walker will come so cheap, but there is some considerable risk at 2B next season and possibly 2019.

 

Dubon looks like a younger version of Hernan Perez (that may be optimistic). I think Villar can sort it out but there is also a strong chance that he's going to put up another .680 OPS season with a ton of Ks in 2018.

 

If Neil Walker signs a 2/$25 million deal and becomes a glorified infield utility guy with some pop because Villar catches fire and returns to 2016 I will not mind one bit.

 

I say that above sentence because the chances are probably greater that Villar struggles or Dubon is just a guy and Walker is a 3-4 WAR player for 2 seasons. I'm willing to take that "risk" because looking at the Brewers' payroll and current roster, there is literally no risk.

 

This is another case of no right/wrong, just how you look at it. I don't want any more stop-gaps unless absolutely necessary, and cheap. I would have preferred a tear it down rebuild, but they are locked in to rebuilding yet having a competitive team at the same time.

 

So while I get that, I still lean towards rebuilding. Villar or Dubon may not be the answer. But if they are, they're the answer for several more years. in the case of Dubon, at least 6 more years. Finding out if either is the answer at 2B is more important to me right now than a couple more win shares for Walker.

[bill hAll Star]

 

This is another case of no right/wrong, just how you look at it. I don't want any more stop-gaps unless absolutely necessary, and cheap. I would have preferred a tear it down rebuild, but they are locked in to rebuilding yet having a competitive team at the same time.

 

So while I get that, I still lean towards rebuilding. Villar or Dubon may not be the answer. But if they are, they're the answer for several more years. in the case of Dubon, at least 6 more years. Finding out if either is the answer at 2B is more important to me right now than a couple more win shares for Walker.

 

The Brewers will not get to hang an extra banner for winning the division or World Series that notes "we also did this with a $55 million payroll." Dubon at his current state is probably not going to be a good MLB player. He's not hitting very well in Colorado Springs so I'm not expecting him to do much in 2018 in the majors. Villar is a giant risk. Dubon may be a good player in the majors (I'm not too high on him) but it probably won't be in 2018.

 

Paying Neil Walker or a similar veteran does not cost any draft picks or prospects, likely does not block a great player for 1-2 years, and if Dubon or Hiura look great in 2 years, they can step in front of him a la Happ and others taking Ben Zobrist's time in Chicago. And before you make the "well Chicago has more to spend" comparison...this will likely be the only big ticket item along with a couple of moderate salaries for relievers for the next 2 years.

[FVBrewerFan]

 

This is another case of no right/wrong, just how you look at it. I don't want any more stop-gaps unless absolutely necessary, and cheap. I would have preferred a tear it down rebuild, but they are locked in to rebuilding yet having a competitive team at the same time.

 

So while I get that, I still lean towards rebuilding. Villar or Dubon may not be the answer. But if they are, they're the answer for several more years. in the case of Dubon, at least 6 more years. Finding out if either is the answer at 2B is more important to me right now than a couple more win shares for Walker.

 

The Brewers will not get to hang an extra banner for winning the division or World Series that notes "we also did this with a $55 million payroll." Dubon at his current state is probably not going to be a good MLB player. He's not hitting very well in Colorado Springs so I'm not expecting him to do much in 2018 in the majors. Villar is a giant risk. Dubon may be a good player in the majors (I'm not too high on him) but it probably won't be in 2018.

 

Paying Neil Walker or a similar veteran does not cost any draft picks or prospects, likely does not block a great player for 1-2 years, and if Dubon or Hiura look great in 2 years, they can step in front of him a la Happ and others taking Ben Zobrist's time in Chicago. And before you make the "well Chicago has more to spend" comparison...this will likely be the only big ticket item along with a couple of moderate salaries for relievers for the next 2 years.

 

There also aren't any banners for 80-82 teams. "Hey we were a tiny bit better with Walker in 2018." We don't know if Dubon can be a good player in 2018. He's hitting just fine in CS. We don't know if Villar can rebound.

 

Not directed at you, but there's too many comments in here lately with such absolute certainty about a given player. Truth is, we don't know what Shaw, Thames, Pina, and most other players on the roster will do next year. Almost everyone not names Braun has a very short track record at the MLB level. To say Villar can't bounce back is an opinion, not a fact.

[bill hAll Star]

There also aren't any banners for 80-82 teams. "Hey we were a tiny bit better with Walker in 2018." We don't know if Dubon can be a good player in 2018. He's hitting just fine in CS. We don't know if Villar can rebound.

 

Not directed at you, but there's too many comments in here lately with such absolute certainty about a given player. Truth is, we don't know what Shaw, Thames, Pina, and most other players on the roster will do next year. Almost everyone not names Braun has a very short track record at the MLB level. To say Villar can't bounce back is an opinion, not a fact.

 

Please don't mistake me as a fan that's interested in chasing mediocrity. I've been a fan all along of the rebuild and other than Mark just dumping some of his own money into a trade, I did not want to make any significant "buy" deadline or post-deadline deals.

 

The reality is that Mark wants to compete now. However, Stearns will keep him in check from unloading the farm to hurt the 2022 Brewers to help the 2018 Brewers (we hope).

 

Dubon hasn't been a good hitter above A+ ball or part of a season in AA in Boston's sytem (yet). A .740 OPS in Colorado Springs is something almost any player can do and he wasn't good in Biloxi.

 

The mantra of fans thinking they are being ahead of the curve by saying, "we are a small market and big contracts are bad" and "I don't want stopgaps" are missing out on the nuance of this. Signing a 2B or relievers (on short contracts) does nothing to affect future ability to bring in or retain players. I think there is some "our prospect" inflation going on with Dubon.

 

Finally, with Villar, I was a vocal proponent of letting him get all of 2017 to figure it out. He can still get plenty of ABs in 2018. The issue is that there are a lot of signs that 2016 was the outlier. If Villar plays at All Star form, we'll inevitably have an injury and Walker will fill in (1B, 3B) which would shift guys around anyways and Villar may be a regular player.

[FVBrewerFan]

There also aren't any banners for 80-82 teams. "Hey we were a tiny bit better with Walker in 2018." We don't know if Dubon can be a good player in 2018. He's hitting just fine in CS. We don't know if Villar can rebound.

 

Not directed at you, but there's too many comments in here lately with such absolute certainty about a given player. Truth is, we don't know what Shaw, Thames, Pina, and most other players on the roster will do next year. Almost everyone not names Braun has a very short track record at the MLB level. To say Villar can't bounce back is an opinion, not a fact.

 

Please don't mistake me as a fan that's interested in chasing mediocrity. I've been a fan all along of the rebuild and other than Mark just dumping some of his own money into a trade, I did not want to make any significant "buy" deadline or post-deadline deals.

 

The reality is that Mark wants to compete now. However, Stearns will keep him in check from unloading the farm to hurt the 2022 Brewers to help the 2018 Brewers (we hope).

 

Dubon hasn't been a good hitter above A+ ball or part of a season in AA in Boston's sytem (yet). A .740 OPS in Colorado Springs is something almost any player can do and he wasn't good in Biloxi.

The mantra of fans thinking they are being ahead of the curve by saying, "we are a small market and big contracts are bad" and "I don't want stopgaps" are missing out on the nuance of this. Signing a 2B or relievers (on short contracts) does nothing to affect future ability to bring in or retain players. I think there is some "our prospect" inflation going on with Dubon.

 

Finally, with Villar, I was a vocal proponent of letting him get all of 2017 to figure it out. He can still get plenty of ABs in 2018. The issue is that there are a lot of signs that 2016 was the outlier. If Villar plays at All Star form, we'll inevitably have an injury and Walker will fill in (1B, 3B) which would shift guys around anyways and Villar may be a regular player.

 

Just to set the record straight, .909 in AA last year. .767 in CS this year. No, that doesn't scream All-Star, but solid enough. You can't win in CS, if if was hitting .900 the response would be "yea, but that's in CS." We also don't know if they're working with Dubon on certain things, etc. There's a lot we don't know. Personally, he looks like a nice utility guy to me but maybe he's good enough to play full time 2B, or close to full time.

 

No prospect inflation here, as I keep saying we just don't know about Dubon. It's just that I rather see ABs from him over 57 year old Walker.

[bill hAll Star]

Just to set the record straight, .909 in AA last year. .767 in CS this year. No, that doesn't scream All-Star, but solid enough. You can't win in CS, if if was hitting .900 the response would be "yea, but that's in CS." We also don't know if they're working with Dubon on certain things, etc. There's a lot we don't know. Personally, he looks like a nice utility guy to me but maybe he's good enough to play full time 2B, or close to full time.

 

No prospect inflation here, as I keep saying we just don't know about Dubon. It's just that I rather see ABs from him over 57 year old Walker.

 

Walker would be 32, 33, and maybe 34 in the hypothetical 2-3 year contract.

 

I am 100% on board with taking the long view for this team. Build through our own system. That said, we're not interested in tanking right now and there will be plenty of time to find out if Dubon is good down the road. Walker will be a better player for those years and you can decide between Dubon or Hiura somewhere in 2019 or 2020.

[monty57]

My biggest concern is age and length of contract. Walker isn't ancient, but players start slowing down past 30, and he'll be 32 next month. He could be one of those guys who can play until he's 40, or he could hit the wall and is washed up soon. There are more guys who fade out in their early 30's then there are guys who are still good into their mid-to-late 30's, so signing a guy in their 30's always scares me.

 

Three years isn't a really long time, but it's still guaranteed that for three seasons you will pay him, even if he falls off a cliff. The difference between a 2-year and a 3-year deal may be the difference between whether I'd like to sign him or not. He's been good in his prime, but now that he's coming out of it, will he continue to be a guy you want to be committed to?

[bill hAll Star]

My biggest concern is age and length of contract. Walker isn't ancient, but players start slowing down past 30, and he'll be 32 next month. He could be one of those guys who can play until he's 40, or he could hit the wall and is washed up soon. There are more guys who fade out in their early 30's then there are guys who are still good into their mid-to-late 30's, so signing a guy in their 30's always scares me.

 

Three years isn't a really long time, but it's still guaranteed that for three seasons you will pay him, even if he falls off a cliff. The difference between a 2-year and a 3-year deal may be the difference between whether I'd like to sign him or not. He's been good in his prime, but now that he's coming out of it, will he continue to be a guy you want to be committed to?

 

The 3rd year is a sticking point for the Brewers' payroll. Say it's a 2 year deal. Nobody that matters becomes a free agent this coming offseason or the next offseason. There will be some arbitration raises but none big enough to push the Brewers to a huge payroll (yet). The only assumed holes to fill are a few relief pitching spots.

 

If a 3rd year is added, there still aren't many free agents, but arbitration values start to rise to the point where I'd be concerned about adding anything at all through free agency if Walker or a few bloated reliever contracts are mixed in.

 

It still could be done as a 3-year deal, fully knowing that that is when Walker could fall off a cliff depending on what Mark wants to pay for the roster as a whole.

[jerichoholicninja]

The Pirates didn't resign Walker because of back issues. Looking at his games played per season I see only two healthy years. I have no problem signing a "proven veteran" for a couple years but with Walker's injury history I don't know if he's the guy I'd want.

[tmwiese55]

I never really thought of it before we got him of course, but I just can't believe Walker gets the numbers being thrown around here. Who knows I guess, but I can't see 3/45 for him. I guess I'm just guessing that he's a lot cheaper than the numbers being thrown here, therefor a much better chance of coming back.