2017-08-06: Brewers (Nelson) at Rays (Archer) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 2-1]

[trwi7]

And contact isn't necessarily going to work for Broxton because the Rays would play the infield in and do everything they can to prevent the run from scoring.

[tomwopat]

Despite the walkoff a great game for all 12,129 that bothered to show up.

[PinaMadness]

Broxton won't put the ball in play so you don't bunt to get to him.

Except he did put the ball in play. You can't play scared of the strikeout.

[pacopete4]

Take the bat out of one of your better hitters for one of your worst, maybe the worst. That isn't a great plan. Pina smoked that ball. Just some bad luck or we are looking at the Brewers scoring at least one and Knebel hopefully putting this one to bed. That's baseball.

[sauveb]

The Counsell decision making has been atrocious the last month. He doesn't seem to have a very good feel for the game. He manages like he used to hit, same bad batting stance over and over and over.

[TJseven7]

The people that are on the bunt train are probably the first that would comment on here of how stupid CC was if if it didn't work out.

 

The bunt is great if you didn't have back holes like Broxton in your lineup.

 

2nd and 3rd with no outs, tie game in the 9th. The only way that isn't an automatic bunt is if you've got 3, 4, or 5 up. Everyone else shouldn't even have to ask.

 

Not to mention scoring anything has been incredibly difficult. You got 6 runs for the series... you force 1 in and go to hader. Bunt doesnt work I blame pina. Broxton fails to get 1 in I blame broxton. An inept offense destroys analytical decision making.

[rcc]

15,000+ yesterday, 12,000+ today. What a weekend of baseball for the many fans of the Tampa Bay area. They don't care and it's got to be hard for a player there.

[JohnBriggs12]

Broxton won't put the ball in play so you don't bunt to get to him.

 

I kind of get that but can't he squeeze in a run? Pina hit it hard but that took all the pressure off. Barnes decision was dumbfounding. Hughes could have coughed it up too but at least he was fresh. Or go with Knebel. Hader still in witness protection. Barnes has been their worst reliever not named Drake since the break.

[TJseven7]

Bunts dont always work, and with a high k guy like broxton coming up its not necessarily the right decision.

 

Using Barnes in another high leverage situation, I just cant wrap my head around.

 

1 of our 6 runs in 26 innings was caused by a wild pitch and you think bunting is a bad idea. When the offense is this bad you force runs across any way you can and swing away isnt working.

[pacopete4]

I don't know what to think of Hader, his peripherals have still been just awful so I don't trust him even a little bit.

 

Im not sure how you or anyone can make this comment. You don't trust him at all? He has only stepped in when asked and got the job done.

Edited: removed your condescension

[homer]

Despite the walkoff a great game for all 12,129 that bothered to show up.

 

Tom, sorry about your arrest last week.

[TJseven7]

I wanted Hader to get the ball for the 9th today. And i expected a 1 run lead until CC decided to go with blind numbers and go for the big inning with a team that hasn't had a big inning in a month. You know... computers say we are due!

[newrivervalley]

MLB had pitch at 98 mph down the middle. Now how many posters hate on Suter and Davies for junk?

[DuWayne Steurer]

Bunts dont always work, and with a high k guy like broxton coming up its not necessarily the right decision.

 

Using Barnes in another high leverage situation, I just cant wrap my head around.

 

1 of our 6 runs in 26 innings was caused by a wild pitch and you think bunting is a bad idea. When the offense is this bad you force runs across any way you can and swing away isnt working.

 

I didnt say it was a bad idea. I said it wasnt necessarily the right decision. People are making this black and white, which it is not. The assumption is that Pina automatically gets the bunt down and moves the runners over. That is not a guarantee. Then you have a very poor contact hitter in Broxton. He k's 40% of the time. Youre giving up an out for potentially no advantage, and potentially giving up an out without moving runners. When people call for bunts they always assume best case scenario of runners moved over.

 

With a man on 3rd even contact doesnt guarantee that you score thr runner. Popups, shallow fly ball, hard ground outs....

 

The end point is this; given the scenario its reasonable for some to argue that with a man already on 2nd, having 3 chances for a run scoring hit is better than 2 chances for some kind of run scoring contact. It wasnt a black and white "yes" for a bunt.

[TJseven7]

I'm so sick of the nay sayers of old school move the runners baseball. No one can bunt well enough for them. Broxton strikes out 100% of the time right? For numbers people they sure do ignore a lot of them then act like they are the final say and decades of baseball minds are just old and stupid.

 

Manufacturing runs... teams have tried it for ages... they weren't all idiots... offenses in a funk need to do it... but blind stats man... and k hitters man.

 

Just say it computer guys... you dont want to see a single bunt ever. Maybe some pitchers but only if they bunt well and hit miserably.

[clancyphile]

Yeah I'm not sure a bunt is a smart move with your slow running catcher with strike out machines behind him.

 

I'll take Barnes over Hughes or Drake in general. I don't know what to think of Hader, his peripherals have still been just awful so I don't trust him even a little bit. Hard to blame the manager on this one. The offense has to figure it out, they have an OPS right around .650 since the all star break and that isn't going to work.

 

That is the big problem.

 

You can't win if you don't score runs.

 

There has to be a hard look at the offense - figure out who can and who can't produce.

[OnaBadger58]

Good news: Nats are only down 1 run now

[Brewcrewin07]

I'm telling you, when Vogt gets back, this offense will get better. I know it sounds strange, but you watch and see.

[adambr2]

I'm so sick of the nay sayers of old school move the runners baseball. No one can bunt well enough for them. Broxton strikes out 100% of the time right? For numbers people they sure do ignore a lot of them then act like they are the final say and decades of baseball minds are just old and stupid.

 

Manufacturing runs... teams have tried it for ages... they weren't all idiots... offenses in a funk need to do it... but blind stats man... and k hitters man.

 

Just say it computer guys... you dont want to see a single bunt ever. Maybe some pitchers but only if they bunt well and hit miserably.

 

People would take you a lot more seriously if you explained things logically rather than just 'rabble rabble rabble, back in the old days!!'

 

Saying it was done this way for ages isn't good enough. Shifting wasn't done for ages either. Things change.

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't have wanted to see a bunt there. I wouldn't have minded but I see the logic against it, too. It's no more of a sure thing than what we did. If it was, we could have sac bunted and then squeezed and had a 2-1 lead; if it waa that certain I'm sure we would have done it.

[TJseven7]

Bunts dont always work, and with a high k guy like broxton coming up its not necessarily the right decision.

 

Using Barnes in another high leverage situation, I just cant wrap my head around.

 

1 of our 6 runs in 26 innings was caused by a wild pitch and you think bunting is a bad idea. When the offense is this bad you force runs across any way you can and swing away isnt working.

 

I didnt say it was a bad idea. I said it wasnt necessarily the right decision. People are making this black and white, which it is not. The assumption is that Pina automatically gets the bunt down and moves the runners over. That is not a guarantee. Then you have a very poor contact hitter in Broxton. He k's 40% of the time. Youre giving up an out for potentially no advantage, and potentially giving up an out without moving runners. When people call for bunts they always assume best case scenario of runners moved over.

 

With a man on 3rd even contact doesnt guarantee that you score thr runner. Popups, shallow fly ball, hard ground outs....

 

The end point is this; given the scenario its reasonable for some to argue that with a man already on 2nd, having 3 chances for a run scoring hit is better than 2 chances for some kind of run scoring contact. It wasnt a black and white "yes" for a bunt.

 

Yes it is a black and white...yes bunt.

 

But maybe its a bad bunt... maybe he hits a gidp... maybe he ks or pops up. What are the odds of him moving the runners successfully to 2nd and 3rd with a bunt vs a ball in play. Its likely better with a bunt than other outcomes. Take your odds.... but what if he fails? Then he fails. Doesn't mean the decision was dumb... the results sucked. He made the dumb decision and the results destroyed his team today. That's the problem. Do the right thing accept the results.

 

But broxton ks 40%.... again is that under 100 cuz analytic people sure do use it to cover their bible of situation blind numbers as if its 100%. Did we score a run on a wp last night. Did broxton K?

 

We dont need a big inning.... we needed 1. You bunt them over. If TB can make you fail at that... then kudoz to them... but moving the runners is the play. Then you hope for 60% of broxton outcomes that give you a chance at plating that run... if he doesn't you get chance 2 with arcia.

 

Did arcia bat? No? So pina broxton maybe arcia over broxton arcia with runners on 2nd and 3rd... yeah option 2... every day option 2.

 

But he could fail!!!!!

 

Edit: I mean, really?

[OnaBadger58]

Nats put up a 5 spot to go up 8-4!

[TJseven7]

No that's said for a specific point. Had a brilliant professor (philosophy) in college who used to ask these questions of his class all the time.

 

WHY?

 

Because we've gotten to a point where we no longer trust judgement of our conscience. We overthink everything to death. Well he might strike out or but the bunt could go wrong. If you are educated your non emotion snap decision is ultimately most accurate. You start to over analyze you can talk yourself into any concievable possibke outcome... but right is right... and in an unemotional mind tgat is educated... right is instant.

 

Struggling offense short pen tie game low scoring... auto manufacture runs bunt.

 

When he asked this students would freeze... all semester long.... is it a trick... is my snap judgement correct.... and they'd pacify themselves into saying nothing or making a case for both.

 

There is a right... outcome be damned. You bunt.

 

Im 35 I give zero damns about the good old days and am too young for nestolga.

[rcc]

Nats put up a 5 spot to go up 8-4!

 

It's nice to see a team that can put up a big inning. Go Nats!

[MoreTrife]

So our offense has been nice for about three months and bad for almost a month and a half...what is real is becoming a valid question.

[yfinn6]

Despite the walkoff a great game for all 12,129 that bothered to show up.

 

Tom, sorry about your arrest last week.