Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade

[And That]

Entertainment value.

[Eye Black]

Look, the window(s) for small market teams to contend is so small, that anytime you get a chance you should do whatever you can(within reason) to capitalize on that. What if that window doesn't come around again for 10 more years?? I remember people here being legit upset when DM acquired CC and Greinke. He even said at the time, when your a small market team, you only get so many opportunities, so you have to try to "go for it" when you can. He's right. None of us know what the future holds...but we do know what the present holds..and overachieveing or not, they ARE contending at the moment. We also know that standings can turn dramatically in a week or two. In two weeks again we could be looking at the Brewers on top again with a 2 or 3 game lead. Then wouldn't everyone be a little disappointed that DS didn't do a little more now to help them maybe get over the hump?? I assure you Mark A is disappointed.

 

I wish TheCrew07 was still posting because he has countered this "short window" concept very articulately in the past, much more so than I am able to or even care to try. I think this is where you are hitting a divide with a lot of others here. You are seeking short-term gratification at the expense of giving yourself the highest possible probability to maintain longer term sustainable success. The goal for many of us here isn't to have pop-up success once or twice every 10 years where we can go all in, but rather it is to win consistently year-after-year for the foreseeable future. We desire an organization from top-to-bottom that is built to last over the long haul. The good news for many of us is that David Stearns is as close as we've had to someone that will lead the organization in this direction. You seem to make a lot of guarantees about what Stearns and Attanasio are or aren't. One thing I can guarantee you is that David Stearns does not subscribe to the Doug Melvin window theory.

[brewmann04]

I had no issue with DS not making a move at this point. But he also has to know if those Prospects that he believed to be holding onto don't pan out then He be looking for a new Job because Mark A will want a winner.

[Humans Need Water]

. You mean to tell me the Brewers couldn't have afforded to part with Say Breett Phillips + to acquire Gray(not buying Oakland would have ONLY taken Brinson)??

,

 

I guess it's easy to be mad about trades that didn't happen when you make up hypothetical terms that were never going to be accepted.

Nobody has any idea what was or wasn't going to be accepted because nobody knows the pieces that were on the table to begin with. If Stearns offered Phillips, Ortiz, Woodruff I'm pretty sure Beane would take that over what the Yankees offered so they absolutely could have done a deal without Brinson. All the rumors sound like Beane required Brinson as part of it based on who the secondary pieces were, which makes sense.

 

Yes, the Brewers could have afforded to part ways with Phillips + others for Gray. But it wouldn't make much sense to do so given the overall position the Brewers are currently in and where these prospects are in their careers. Based on the Yankees offer it would take something like Phillips, Ortiz, Dubon Just to "approach" matching it. Now, you have to improve upon that to get Beane to accept the deal over the Yankees. Hader isn't going anywhere, Ray I personally don't think they'd take over a MLB ready CF so he'd be out. There's no way Stearns is giving up Ortiz and Woodruff (or Burnes) so that leaves Diaz as the 3rd piece over Dubon (which is a terrible offer on our end) or Brinson as the only logical piece that would have to be included as he'd replace Phillips.

 

The Yankees are giving up a MLB ready CF in Fowler (current Top 100), AA CF/SS/2b who was Top 100 entering the season and then a 2015 1st rd pick who was Top 100 entering this season who had TJ but could be better than Ortiz/Woodruff and fly through the minors and take the same route as Walker Buehler. So when the rumor is it would take Brinson to deal with the Brewers I absolutely believe it. And there's no way Stearns is parting with him hence the talks broke off.

[Brewcrewin07]

I have no problem with trading away prospects to get talent but you just have to be realistic with the roster you have. This team is nowhere near as good as the Nationals or Dodgers. We are likely worse than the Diamondbacks and Cubs even with a few additions. So realistically we are hoping the DBacks or Cubs collapse and that we get really lucky and somehow beat 2 teams a lot better than us.

 

This year the NL is really stacked with top end teams, it just isn't the time to make this kind of move. For me to think we had a good chance to win the World Series this year we would have to trade for 4 or 5 players and at least one of them would need to be an ace pitcher which Sonny Gray is not. So the Brewers could have gone the Yankee's path I guess. Trade for Quintana and Darvish and a couple of the bullpen guys. Maybe we become on even footing with the lesser NL playoff teams. We may or may not make the playoffs since we have ground to make up. That would have taken at least half of our top 10 prospects with some lesser prospects as well. Unlike the Yankees we don't have a bunch of young guys in the bigs performing at a high level though so now we just traded away our near future. It just isn't a good way to run a team, especially one without deep pockets.

 

This is a great post Ennder..and I'd like to touch on the highlighted quote. First i agree with you that Gray isn't an ace, but Verlander and Darvish are. I also agree with you that they need 4-5 players..Here's what i would have done, and I think you could have done it all without touching Brinson. Now, right or wrong I'm going to base this on the prospect rankings(by system that teams gave up to acquire these players). Now also keep in mind, the topic was about what was needed to compete THIS year...so control is NOT an issue for this comparison. Here's who I would have targeted:

 

Darvish/Verlander

Wilson

Kinsler

Granderson

 

That's 4 guys that touch on the Crew's major weaknesses this year..now who would I have given up to acquire these players?? Again remember, really the only baseline we have to compare is the prospect rankings by organization..

 

Brewers get: Yu Darvish(the Dodgers gave up their #4, #17 & #27 prospects)

Brewers give up: (#4 Brandon Woodruff, #16 Trey Supak(had to substitute him for #17 Ryan Cordell), #27 Larry Ernesto

 

Brewers get: Justin Wilson

Brewers give up : Isan Daz and Jacob Nottingham

 

Brewers get: Ian Kinsler

Brewers give up: Hard to judge what it would have taken, but given the Brewers would have taken on salary it couldn't have taken too much..so lets just say they give them a top 30 prospect..Let's just say Kodi Medeiros

 

Brewers get: Curtis Granderson

Brewers give: Again, hard to say, but let's just say it's a minor piece...pick whoever you want.

 

In looking at this, would that REALLY have been giving up that much for the Brewers in gaining those players?? I don't think so.

[Eye Black]

I had no issue with DS not making a move at this point. But he also has to know if those Prospects that he believed to be holding onto don't pan out then He be looking for a new Job because Mark A will want a winner.

Which specific prospects are you referring that his job security now hinges on? Plenty of prospects don't pan out, so I guess it would helpful to know which ones specifically now carry enough weight to jeopardize Stearns job status? If Attanasio was going to fire his GM because he didn't trade a prospect that ultimately doesn't work out (which can be due to a myriad of reasons related to health, opportunity, makeup, talent, etc.) then he probably isn't cut out to be the owner of a successful baseball organization.

[JosephC]

Thanks for sharing.

 

I'll bet the big trade was either with Detroit for Kinsler etc. or with Miami for Straily.

 

Doubt the Brewers were involved late on Gray or Darvish.

 

I'm just curious to see if it ultimately comes out as to what the "big trade" was.

 

My guess is also Straily. I was thinking he'd be a Brewer by the time I got home today and was pleasantly surprised it didn't happen. I really don't have anything against Straily and maybe time would have proven him to be a good pickup, but guys not even out of arbitration are almost guaranteed to carry a really high price-tag and I really didn't want the Brewers to go there.

[LouisEly]

Saw something on the Bleacher Report feed that Stearns said he thinks the August trade period will be "more active than usual". What I take from this is that names with big contracts (Verlander, Kinsler, maybe Samardzjia, Cueto) were discussed quite a bit but not finalized.

 

What I infer from this is that the Brewers may considers some of those if they are still in contention in late August.

[superfly]

It's always easier to spend someone else's money and make their own decisions for them, right brew?

[Brewcrewin07]

Saw something on the Bleacher Report feed that Stearns said he thinks the August trade period will be "more active than usual". What I take from this is that names with big contracts (Verlander, Kinsler, maybe Samardzjia, Cueto) were discussed quite a bit but not finalized.

 

What I infer from this is that the Brewers may considers some of those if they are still in contention in late August.

 

This is what i think as well...I'd be willing to bet Stearns will claim several players at one point or another. I bet he claims Verlander and Kinsler if they are still in it in a week or two. then it depends on what could be worked out.

[MrTPlush]

Verlander is pretty similar to Braun last ear. Highly doubtful they would just let him go as complete salary relief(looks terrible for an all time great for the franchise) however no team is taking a chance on that. If Braun wasn't claimed no way Verlander is getting claimed.

[torts]

I'm convinced you're the dude in my signature with a new account

[brewmann04]

You have to think on game in Brinson Possine Hadar Woodruff and maybe Ortiz

[HighHeat19]

Verlander is not going to waive his no trade clause to come to Milwaukee.

[brewmann04]

I will have to agree on that but wonder if DS is working on something.

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm convinced you're the dude in my signature with a new account

 

Holy cow, you may be right!

[Brewcrewin07]

I'm convinced you're the dude in my signature with a new account

 

Holy cow, you may be right!

 

Nope, not him.

[FVBrewerFan]

One way to find out. What is Brewers record in games youve attended?

[TURBO]

One way to find out. What is Brewers record in games youve attended?

 

:laughing

[3and2Fastball]

When I first started posting here, I liked it when people were reminded that this isn't the Journal Sentinel online comments section, that one needed to have some deeper understanding of Baseball & the Brewers to be respected here. It was a little intimidating at first but made for much better overall reading. The unsubstantiated negativity from some here lately is a bit much. But I still love this place

[dacbrewers]

I have no problem with trading away prospects to get talent but you just have to be realistic with the roster you have. This team is nowhere near as good as the Nationals or Dodgers. We are likely worse than the Diamondbacks and Cubs even with a few additions. So realistically we are hoping the DBacks or Cubs collapse and that we get really lucky and somehow beat 2 teams a lot better than us.

 

This year the NL is really stacked with top end teams, it just isn't the time to make this kind of move. For me to think we had a good chance to win the World Series this year we would have to trade for 4 or 5 players and at least one of them would need to be an ace pitcher which Sonny Gray is not. So the Brewers could have gone the Yankee's path I guess. Trade for Quintana and Darvish and a couple of the bullpen guys. Maybe we become on even footing with the lesser NL playoff teams. We may or may not make the playoffs since we have ground to make up. That would have taken at least half of our top 10 prospects with some lesser prospects as well. Unlike the Yankees we don't have a bunch of young guys in the bigs performing at a high level though so now we just traded away our near future. It just isn't a good way to run a team, especially one without deep pockets.

 

This is a great post Ennder..and I'd like to touch on the highlighted quote. First i agree with you that Gray isn't an ace, but Verlander and Darvish are. I also agree with you that they need 4-5 players..Here's what i would have done, and I think you could have done it all without touching Brinson. Now, right or wrong I'm going to base this on the prospect rankings(by system that teams gave up to acquire these players). Now also keep in mind, the topic was about what was needed to compete THIS year...so control is NOT an issue for this comparison. Here's who I would have targeted:

 

Darvish/Verlander

Wilson

Kinsler

Granderson

 

That's 4 guys that touch on the Crew's major weaknesses this year..now who would I have given up to acquire these players?? Again remember, really the only baseline we have to compare is the prospect rankings by organization..

 

Brewers get: Yu Darvish(the Dodgers gave up their #4, #17 & #27 prospects)

Brewers give up: (#4 Brandon Woodruff, #16 Trey Supak(had to substitute him for #17 Ryan Cordell), #27 Larry Ernesto

 

Brewers get: Justin Wilson

Brewers give up : Isan Daz and Jacob Nottingham

 

Brewers get: Ian Kinsler

Brewers give up: Hard to judge what it would have taken, but given the Brewers would have taken on salary it couldn't have taken too much..so lets just say they give them a top 30 prospect..Let's just say Kodi Medeiros

 

Brewers get: Curtis Granderson

Brewers give: Again, hard to say, but let's just say it's a minor piece...pick whoever you want.

 

In looking at this, would that REALLY have been giving up that much for the Brewers in gaining those players?? I don't think so.

I'm in agreement on this. I would have tried to get Darvish. Dodgers didn't give up the farm and got a stud for a couple months.

[Jenkins5]

The Brewers window hasn't even started.... they have realistically no true core or players outside of Braun who have any track record that 1st half performance wasn't a fluke. This team has more holes on roster than me trying to play goalie in men's league hockey (that's a lot) Arcia is growing & learning, hopefully Shaw, Domingo, Pina are for real, Braun can't stay on field this season. Villar has been terrible. Sogard is not as great as he started out. Our staff can't stay healthy. With way it's been going, he could have traded for one but they prob get hurt as well. Broxton is fire or ice. Brinson is struggling & mostly ice right now. Thames & Aguilar I still don't know what we truely have.

 

This is an overachieving team. Please.... for love of all that is holy look at the Nationals roster & staff! That is a contending team! They have a real core! They have 5 guys hitting .320+ with 20+HRs! Even without Strasburg, their rotation is strong!

 

Trading away our system to pretend we are even close to a true contender would be laughable. Windows start when top prospects come up & perform, Arcia & know Brinson are only two. Hader isn't starting. We will get there but no need to try to skip steps.

[tmwiese55]

Wow. There is no way Stearns is on the hot seat. Ownership seemed prepared for a multi year rebuild including some serious losing. It looks like we topped out with one 68 win year and a 73 win year and seem currently setup to continue being competitive from here out. And only one of those years was intentionally losing. Now we're supposed to be mad that the rebuild has gone so well that we're winning early but not winning enough, cmon.

 

I'm confident if the team didn't go to crap the last 3 weeks and still had a 3-6 game lead that they would have done something more significant to help assure them holding onto the division, in spite of knowing the Dodgers and Nats are loaded. Division titles matter and anything can happen in the playoffs. So if you're a few games ahead with 60 games left you have to go for it. Instead our team has fallen apart and Cubs got hot, now making this a serious uphill proposition and not worth significant prospects. Small bullpen improvements at low cost, yea why not, if we can get hot an pull it out, great. if not, the Cubs have blown their whole farm and don't look as much of a juggernaut as we feared. So can be more competitive alot quicker than we thought a year or so back. Plus Scherzer isn't exactly young and Harper is likely gone I think after next season (hopefully to NY and not CHC) so the Nats window is closing. I don't think the Dodgers are going anywhere anytime soon though. Also, keep in mind there wasn't a true CC/Greinke level pitcher out there. Gray/Quintana are solid pitchers, but not like that level. Darvish is a 2 month rental for us so I think we can all agree on not doing that.

 

Look at this way, we went into this year expecting to be done well before the ASB (heck probably by mid May) and we're still in it, enjoy the ride. Hope for the bats to come back and keep us in this longer, with the head to heads vs the Cubs anything can happen. It's a true underdog story, get it back going tonight.

[Jopal78]

I think its a valid criticism for an organization to overvalue its own prospects. Winning in baseball is hard, look no further than the Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun years. That core managed but three winning seasons and overall went 501- 471 (.515) from 2006 through 2011. There simply is no guarantee that the Brewers will be in the division race next year or in years to come. There's disadvantages to both sides of making a deal or not making a deal. Without quality reinforcements the Brewers will likely fade down the stretch in 2017, however the team's decision makers believe they're better off in the long run to have held on to all their key minor league players.

 

Which brings up the second point: by definition prospect means many of these players will fail. Again, look no further than the archived Power 50 lists on this web page to see a litany of players who failed despite being touted as having great potential by some folks here who follow seriously the minor leagues: Will Inman, Angel Salome, Cole Gillespie, Matt Laporta, Mat Gamel, Zach Braddock, etc.

 

As a fan I'm disappointed that there weren't reinforcements brought in this year, and I'm skeptical about how many of the prospects the Brewers have will turn out to be difference makers at the major league level, but the people who make these decisions have in essence staked their credibility on their evaluations of the players they currently have and as fans all we can do is sit back and see what happens this year and down the road.

[MrTPlush]

All these people touting trading a bunch of major prospects to be an OK contender(probably wild card level) I am just curious your thoughts on the last 3 weeks.