Ian Kinsler

[dacbrewers]

Why dont they just let Iván De Jesús Jr have a shot

 

Batting .363

 

Colorado Springs (and PCL).

 

They brought Sogard up and he caught fire for a while, try it with DeJesus. I'm open to it.

[bill hAll Star]

Why dont they just let Iván De Jesús Jr have a shot

 

Batting .363

 

Colorado Springs (and PCL).

 

They brought Sogard up and he caught fire for a while, try it with DeJesus. I'm open to it.

 

Broxton - .385

Cooper - .366

Brinson - .363

Bandy - .310

Phillips - .301

 

Garrett Cooper is leading the pack at .240 in 26 ABs in the majors out of that group.

 

Something tells me that the Sogard streak was complete luck/randomness.

 

De Jesus's career MLB batting average is .240.

[Devinep]

Why dont they just let Iván De Jesús Jr have a shot

 

Batting .363

 

Colorado Springs (and PCL).

 

They brought Sogard up and he caught fire for a while, try it with DeJesus. I'm open to it.

 

Plus it would be basically impossible to be as bad as Villar

[bill hAll Star]

Plus it would be basically impossible to be as bad as Villar

 

What's really impressive is that De Jesus has put together a full career of 4 partial seasons (545 plate appearances) where his stat line is about on par with Villar's terrible 2017 season.

[Devinep]

Plus it would be basically impossible to be as bad as Villar

 

What's really impressive is that De Jesus has put together a full career of 4 partial seasons (545 plate appearances) where his stat line is about on par with Villar's terrible 2017 season.

 

Well Villar is going to continue to be Villar-level bad. We're in August now. and IF Dejesus is also Villar-level bad then you're no worse off than continuing to play Villar. At least try something different.

 

This is all assuming (which I think we can) that Sogards fall from grace will continue and Perez will never learn how to take a pitch

[RollieTime]

They brought Sogard up and he caught fire for a while, try it with DeJesus. I'm open to it.

 

Plus it would be basically impossible to be as bad as Villar

 

If DeJesus came up and continued to rake, he could help jump start the offense that has been struggling for a few weeks now. Even if he performs to his career average of .242, it would be an improvement over Villar's average of .214 this season. DeJesus' ability to strike out less could also help advance runners and manufacture more runs.

 

DeJesus is not the second baseman of the future, but he would be the stopgap for the rest of the season that could help spark the offense if he performs as well as he has in Triple A. Villar can go into the offseason, refine his approach, and hopefully return to his 2016 form next season.

[bill hAll Star]

Plus it would be basically impossible to be as bad as Villar

 

What's really impressive is that De Jesus has put together a full career of 4 partial seasons (545 plate appearances) where his stat line is about on par with Villar's terrible 2017 season.

 

Well Villar is going to continue to be Villar-level bad. We're in August now. and IF Dejesus is also Villar-level bad then you're no worse off than continuing to play Villar. At least try something different.

 

This is all assuming (which I think we can) that Sogards fall from grace will continue and Perez will never learn how to take a pitch

 

Because we know what to expect from Sogard and De Jesus and likely Kinsler given all of their ages. We know it won't be much better. There is a lot of data to back that up.

 

Yes, I will agree with you that Villar is probably broken for this season and we likely also know that his numbers will be bad.

 

However, if you said "I have a crystal ball and one of those 4 players ended up as August and September offensive MVP for the Brewers" I would wager 60% of my money on Villar, maybe 30% on Kinsler, 9% on Sogard, and 1% on De Jesus.

 

Why? Because Jonathan Villar was a highly regarded prospect at one point and has actually produced results before and therefore there is actually a reasonable probability that he can do it again. Kinsler is an OK option because he once was good but is getting old. Sogard and Ivan De Jesus are 100% known commodities of AAA journeyman. the only reason people want to try them is because it's something and less frustrating to the human eye to watch when they're struggling in comparison to Villar.

[bill hAll Star]

 

If DeJesus comes up and continues to rake, he could help jump start the offense that has been struggling for a few weeks now. Even if he performs to his career average of .242, it would be an improvement over Villar's average of .214 this season. DeJesus' ability to strike out less could also help advance runners and manufacture more runs.

 

DeJesus is not the second baseman of the future, but he would be the stopgap for the rest of the season that could help spark the offense if he performs as well as he has in Triple A. Villar can go into the offseason, refine his approach, and hopefully return to his 2016 form next season.

 

Why not call Yuni Betancourt? In theory, he could also "get hot."

[RollieTime]

 

If DeJesus comes up and continues to rake, he could help jump start the offense that has been struggling for a few weeks now. Even if he performs to his career average of .242, it would be an improvement over Villar's average of .214 this season. DeJesus' ability to strike out less could also help advance runners and manufacture more runs.

 

DeJesus is not the second baseman of the future, but he would be the stopgap for the rest of the season that could help spark the offense if he performs as well as he has in Triple A. Villar can go into the offseason, refine his approach, and hopefully return to his 2016 form next season.

 

Why not call Yuni Betancourt? In theory, he could also "get hot."

 

DeJesus has been performing well all season in Triple A. It is worth giving him a shot at this point in the season with how Villar has been producing all year. He would likely regress quite a bit, but even if he hit .250-.260, it would be a big upgrade over Villar. Best case scenario, DeJesus provides a much needed spark to the offense. Worst case scenario, he produces similar to Villar and strikes out less.

[Devinep]

Plus it would be basically impossible to be as bad as Villar

 

What's really impressive is that De Jesus has put together a full career of 4 partial seasons (545 plate appearances) where his stat line is about on par with Villar's terrible 2017 season.

 

Well Villar is going to continue to be Villar-level bad. We're in August now. and IF Dejesus is also Villar-level bad then you're no worse off than continuing to play Villar. At least try something different.

 

This is all assuming (which I think we can) that Sogards fall from grace will continue and Perez will never learn how to take a pitch

 

Because we know what to expect from Sogard and De Jesus and likely Kinsler given all of their ages. We know it won't be much better. There is a lot of data to back that up.

 

Yes, I will agree with you that Villar is probably broken for this season and we likely also know that his numbers will be bad.

 

However, if you said "I have a crystal ball and one of those 4 players ended up as August and September offensive MVP for the Brewers" I would wager 60% of my money on Villar, maybe 30% on Kinsler, 9% on Sogard, and 1% on De Jesus.

 

Why? Because Jonathan Villar was a highly regarded prospect at one point and has actually produced results before and therefore there is actually a reasonable probability that he can do it again. Kinsler is an OK option because he once was good but is getting old. Sogard and Ivan De Jesus are 100% known commodities of AAA journeyman. the only reason people want to try them is because it's something and less frustrating to the human eye to watch when they're struggling in comparison to Villar.

 

When you incorporate history, defense, baseball IQ, and bad luck his year (low BABIP+high hard contact rate) Kinsler is better than Villar and it's not that close

[bill hAll Star]

When you incorporate history, defense, baseball IQ, and bad luck his year (low BABIP+high hard contact rate) Kinsler is better than Villar and it's not that close

 

Sure, that's fine but that is not really the argument that we were originally having. Maybe I'd prefer Kinsler for August through October of 2017 (and Villar would come #2 of those 4, as bad as he's been) but as a realistic fan that knows the playoff chances are slim, I'd still prefer to not give something up to get Kinsler given this year's playoff run is unlikely and he's only getting older next year.

[MrTPlush]

Why dont they just let Iván De Jesús Jr have a shot

 

Batting .363

 

Because that would require losing Eric Sogard(NO THEY ARE NOT DFAing VILLAR). Sogard has the better track record and had that little magical run when he was first brought up. I don't he is any better than Sogard will be.

[Devinep]

Why dont they just let Iván De Jesús Jr have a shot

 

Batting .363

 

Because that would require losing Eric Sogard(NO THEY ARE NOT DFAing VILLAR). Sogard has the better track record and had that little magical run when he was first brought up. I don't he is any better than Sogard will be.

 

They could send down Brinson (since Counsell won't play him anyway) because of their other bench players' versatility. Dejesus would make a more logical platoon mate with Sogard than Villar because Villar hits lefties even worse than he hits righties.

 

Since they didn't get Kinsler (and assuming they dont still), 2B is just throwing turds at the wall. Sofasrd has slid off but they've thrown Villar enough that it's fairly obviously not gonna stick. If Dubon picks it up in AAA maybe he can be a September call up.

[Humans Need Water]

When you incorporate history, defense, baseball IQ, and bad luck his year (low BABIP+high hard contact rate) Kinsler is better than Villar and it's not that close

 

Sure, that's fine but that is not really the argument that we were originally having. Maybe I'd prefer Kinsler for August through October of 2017 (and Villar would come #2 of those 4, as bad as he's been) but as a realistic fan that knows the playoff chances are slim, I'd still prefer to not give something up to get Kinsler given this year's playoff run is unlikely and he's only getting older next year.

Agree with this. If Stearns wants to give up the Tayler Scott's of the world then go for it. But I entered this discussion when it turned the corner for dropping Villar off this team, which is absurd given his age, ability, control and us not having a 2b for 2018 then as Perez would be the only one on the roster heading into next year.

 

Also, Kinsler has like 10yrs more experience than Villar so you can make that same argument even if Villar was repeating his 2016.

[Devinep]

I'd agree to not give up anything major for Kinsler but it's possible Detroit would have looked at moving him a a salary dump.

 

And Kinsler has an affordable option for 2018 so he would be the 2B next year with Dubon ready in 18 also

[Humans Need Water]

I'd agree to not give up anything major for Kinsler but it's possible Detroit would have looked at moving him a a salary dump.

 

And Kinsler has an affordable option for 2018 so he would be the 2B next year with Dubon ready in 18 also

Not sure I'd call a 10M option affordable. Brewers can certainly take that on but that's still a lot for a declining 36yr old. And if they choose not to pick up that option then they owe a 5M buy out. Villar will make much less, has 3yrs of control left and rebounding to a solid season will give a solid return in a trade. Plus we still have Perez to play 2b; it's nuts that he hasn't seen much more time at that position.

[Boomer5]

Absurd that we are even thinking of trading for an expensive 35 year old 2B when Stearns wanted to extend Villar in spring and dumped Scooter and his 900 OPS for nothing less than 5 months ago.

 

Just fast track Hiura and use DeJesus Jr/Dubon to stop gap until he is ready.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Absurd that we are even thinking of trading for an expensive 35 year old 2B when Stearns wanted to extend Villar in spring and dumped Scooter and his 900 OPS for nothing less than 5 months ago.

 

Just fast track Hiura and use DeJesus Jr/Dubon to stop gap until he is ready.

 

Wrong! Scooter's 2016 OPS was .728. No one, and I mean NO ONE could have seen the kind of numbers he's putting up this year. Hindsight is 20/20 though, I guess.

[mlloyd10]

Hiura will be our starting 2b come 2019 - We need someone for next season - Villar hasn't proven a whole lot.

 

Next season - Villar cane fill in for Kinsler at 2b and Arcia at SS

[JohnBriggs12]

Absurd that we are even thinking of trading for an expensive 35 year old 2B when Stearns wanted to extend Villar in spring and dumped Scooter and his 900 OPS for nothing less than 5 months ago.

 

Just fast track Hiura and use DeJesus Jr/Dubon to stop gap until he is ready.

 

Wrong! Scooter's 2016 OPS was .728. No one, and I mean NO ONE could have seen the kind of numbers he's putting up this year. Hindsight is 20/20 though, I guess.

 

You forget I'm still around? Maybe .900 is impressing even me but I've always thought Gennett was a very solid hitter. Heck he posted an .834 OPS as a 23 year old rookie in 2013 in a not so tiny sample of 230 PA. Compare that with the struggles of their highly rated guys now.

[JohnBriggs12]

Perez can give them offensively what Kintzler can do these days. Ideally they could find a taker for Villar for anything, bring Phillips up and make Perez the primary 2B. Then let Sogard be the infield utility guy.

[mlloyd10]

Perez can give them offensively what Kintzler can do these days. Ideally they could find a taker for Villar for anything, bring Phillips up and make Perez the primary 2B. Then let Sogard be the infield utility guy.

 

Fine with that too, but Perez isn't looking great either - I especially love his .298 OBP

[Humans Need Water]

Absurd that we are even thinking of trading for an expensive 35 year old 2B when Stearns wanted to extend Villar in spring and dumped Scooter and his 900 OPS for nothing less than 5 months ago.

 

Just fast track Hiura and use DeJesus Jr/Dubon to stop gap until he is ready.

 

Wrong! Scooter's 2016 OPS was .728. No one, and I mean NO ONE could have seen the kind of numbers he's putting up this year. Hindsight is 20/20 though, I guess.

 

You forget I'm still around? Maybe .900 is impressing even me but I've always thought Gennett was a very solid hitter. Heck he posted an .834 OPS as a 23 year old rookie in 2013 in a not so tiny sample of 230 PA. Compare that with the struggles of their highly rated guys now.

Can we discuss Scooter hitting out of his @ass in 2013 compared to his 2012 AA and 2013 AAA? His 2014-2016 is also evidence he hit out of his @ss in his first MLB stint. Additionally, were the 2013 Brewers winning the division when Scooter came up or did he not have any added pressure (won 74 games that year - 4th in division)?

 

Why don't you want to compare a 22yr old Arcia to a 23yr old Scooter? Since May 18 Arcia has 254 PA compared to Scooter's 230 and he's slashing 312/354/776 while playing MUCH better defense at THE premium defensive position.

 

I'm excited to compare Brinson and Phillips at 25-26yrs old to Scooter at 25-26 where he posted 675 and 728 OPS.

[MrTPlush]

Hiura will be our starting 2b come 2019 - We need someone for next season - Villar hasn't proven a whole lot.

 

Next season - Villar cane fill in for Kinsler at 2b and Arcia at SS

 

Keston Hiura is going to fly through 3 levels next year and be ready for 2019? I love Hiura and think he can move fast, but penciling him in is jumping the gun. He is mashing A ball pitching as a college draftee. His numbers are almost meaningless.

[Humans Need Water]

Hiura will be our starting 2b come 2019 - We need someone for next season - Villar hasn't proven a whole lot.

 

Next season - Villar cane fill in for Kinsler at 2b and Arcia at SS

 

Keston Hiura is going to fly through 3 levels next year and be ready for 2019? I love Hiura and think he can move fast, but penciling him in is jumping the gun. He is mashing A ball pitching as a college draftee. His numbers are almost meaningless.

I wouldn't go that far regarding his numbers being meaningless given the vast majority on here were in love with Erceg during his time in Appleton. I was in the camp of having him spend the first 4wks this year in Appleton because outside of his first 4 games or so there his numbers weren't overly impressive. Whereas Keston is destroying the ball. This development team likes challenging these prospects so I can see Hiura flying through the system next year and being ready to compete for a spot in spring of 2019. Realistically, like you, I don't think that happens. I think a more realistic approach is mid-2019 at earliest as that gives him a split of A+/AA next year and starting in AAA in 2019 - more along the lines of Ian Happ. Just depends on his performance - he still needs to get in the field too so that will be a factor. Worst case he's up to start 2020.