Ian Kinsler

[ewitkows]

Hiura could be our starting 2b sometime next yr.

 

I doubt that. Just like Erceg before him hitting at the upper levels can be changeling. Plus he's going to need to spend a year or 2 working at 2B

[Greenleaf1]

I'm totally on board with getting Kinsler in a package from Detroit. If we could work out a big deal for Verlander/Wilson/Kinsler, I'd be ecstatic.

 

How much would Detroit want for Kinsler/Wilson if we were sending Villar back to Detroit?

[nate82]

If the Brewers are going to trade for a 2B they should trade for Dee Gordon from the Marlins.

I would like this move given Counsell's propensity to run. However, I would not offer a significant amount of talent to acquire him (Cordell-type) given Dubon is in Triple AAA and Diaz is still coming.

 

A deal of Cordell and Villar for Dee is about the extent of what I would offer.

 

I don't think the Marlins would want Villar and Cordell. I would do Diaz/Ray, Lopez and Cordell for Gordon but I think it would take a little bit more than that. Probably Ortiz, Ray/Diaz, Cordell and Supak is closer to what it would take.

[Warning Track Power]

I don't think the Marlins would want Villar and Cordell. I would do Diaz/Ray, Lopez and Cordell for Gordon but I think it would take a little bit more than that. Probably Ortiz, Ray/Diaz, Cordell and Supak is closer to what it would take.

I would do a Ray, Diaz, Villar, Cordell and Supak for Dee and Ramos. I wonder if they would be interested in something like this.

[adambr2]

I don't think the Marlins would want Villar and Cordell. I would do Diaz/Ray, Lopez and Cordell for Gordon but I think it would take a little bit more than that. Probably Ortiz, Ray/Diaz, Cordell and Supak is closer to what it would take.

I would do a Ray, Diaz, Villar, Cordell and Supak for Dee and Ramos. I wonder if they would be interested in something like this.

 

Holy smokes, I sure hope not. That looks more like a Sonny Gray package than a package for a good not great 2nd baseman and a 30 year old reliever with 1 more year of control.

[LouisEly]

Villar, Ray and Diplan for Kinsler and Wilson? Kinsler helps bridge the gap for Dubon and Diaz. Wilson takes the pressure off of Barnes and Knebel, reducing their innings and not burning them out. Ray and Diplan are both decent B level prospects.

If the Brewers are not going to acquire talent they need to put Barnes, Knebel and Hughes on the block. Adding will keep attendance high. If nothing is added and they continue to slide, enjoy 20,000 in August and less in September.

While Ray is having a disappointing season, he is still worth no less than a starting pitcher.

[TURBO]

All I can say is that I am really happy that some in this thread are not calling any shots in our front office.

 

Jeepers creepers...

 

[rickh150]

When we face lefties like Lester, it sure would be nice to have a .800 + OPS instead of a <200 Avg hitter at 2B.

[wildcat2237]

Joel Sherman on the Brewers and Tigers.

 

#Tigers scouts have been watching #Brewers #Astros systems could be about Verlander and/or Justin Wilson

 

[Brewcrewin07]

[NievesNoNO]

Sounds like there's still some legit conversation here. I would still really like for a Kinsler/Wilson to happen.

[brewmann04]

The brewers are looking to add another Reliever or starter?

[rickh150]

Again, we have a fairly large hole at 2B and in the leadoff spot against lefty pitching... That is Kinsler's specialty, along with stellar defensive play. We could get a top of order guy that makes hard contact and strikes out much less than Villar. If this does happen, what happens with Villar?

[reillymcshane]

As noted by a couple of people, I did not realize how productive Kinsler had been the last few years.

 

Baseball-reference.com has him at an average of about 5.9 WAR for his last three full years (2014-16). Fangraphs has him at an average of about 5.1 WAR during that same time frame. Either way, that's pretty good.

 

Even though he isn't having a great year in 2017, he's still has produced 2.1 bWAR/2.2 fWAR thus far. That's not too bad (not great - but not bad).

 

His BABIP is about 25 points lower than his career numbers, so there's some hope that he will rebound a bit (he's hitting .248 this year after hitting over .280 since coming to Detroit in 2014).

 

Fangraphs and Baseball Reference still rate his defense has excellent (in fact, Fangraphs puts him as the top defensive 2B in baseball this year - at least so far). He's also a good baserunner.

 

At 35, there's a lot to be wary about. Guys just get old - and you'd have to dig deeper and scout him to get a better feel for his performance. But if the team is giving up on Villar - and they aren't buying Sogard as a starter - he's not a bad option. Assuming Kinsler keeps up his stellar defensive play, his salary isn't too high (he makes about $4M more in 2017, and $12M for 2018). Even if he only hits .250-260, he could be a solid player for 2018 while Hiura, Dubon and Diaz continue to develop. He doesn't fit the mold of a versatile player - but such is life.

 

I'm not necessarily saying we trade for Kinsler. Just saying that some of my initial reaction was overblown. I saw a 35 year old guy hitting under .250. Seemed like an automatic 'no way' in my head. But looking deeper, there's some value in the guy that shouldn't be dismissed.

[reillymcshane]

Going to throw this one out there:

 

Milwaukee gets Kinsler, Wilson and Anibal Sanchez

Detroit gets Jonathan Villar (I say this because getting Kinsler essentially says we are giving up on Villar - so no point in hanging on to him). If not Villar, then a couple of low level prospects.

 

The key here is Milwaukee taking on Sanchez's contract. The guy is junk at this point. By taking on his salary (roughly $6M left in 2017, and a $5M buyout for 2018), we are essentially buying Wilson and Kinsler for $11M.

 

Of course, we are also taking Kinsler's and Wilson's salaries - that saves Detroit about $5M more in 2017 - plus any future salaries (or buyouts) of both players.

 

For Milwaukee, it adds a quality left handed reliever and a steady defensive 2B.

 

The Brewers would likely just cut Sanchez (or perhaps keep him and get rid of Peralta or someone like that). Either way, he's probably worthless.

 

Just an idea.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Why on Earth would the the Detroit Tigers do

this? To save $11M? Wishful thinking.

[Jenkins5]

Why on Earth would the the Detroit Tigers do

this? To save $11M? Wishful thinking.

 

Tigers want to dump salary & get younger while not losing ability to compete. Verlander & Kinsler are aging, production has dropped, and they eat a ton of salary. They are out of contention this season so sell off some old expensive assets to give you flexibility in the off season to work with.

 

I could see Villar going to Detroit & getting hot again like he was last year. He has that ability to be that player.

[Boomer5]

Going to throw this one out there:

 

Milwaukee gets Kinsler, Wilson and Anibal Sanchez

Detroit gets Jonathan Villar (I say this because getting Kinsler essentially says we are giving up on Villar - so no point in hanging on to him). If not Villar, then a couple of low level prospects.

 

The key here is Milwaukee taking on Sanchez's contract. The guy is junk at this point. By taking on his salary (roughly $6M left in 2017, and a $5M buyout for 2018), we are essentially buying Wilson and Kinsler for $11M.

 

Of course, we are also taking Kinsler's and Wilson's salaries - that saves Detroit about $5M more in 2017 - plus any future salaries (or buyouts) of both players.

 

For Milwaukee, it adds a quality left handed reliever and a steady defensive 2B.

 

The Brewers would likely just cut Sanchez (or perhaps keep him and get rid of Peralta or someone like that). Either way, he's probably worthless.

 

Just an idea.

 

No way does that get you Wilson. He is one of the top trade chips at the deadline. Sub 1 WHIP and 12+ K/9 is worth way more than mediocre salary relief and guy the Brewers dont want.

 

Further, while Kinsler has little value to us unless you think we are a playoff team, he does have some value to a contending team that desperately needs a 2B for the next two years. The Brewers dont really need a 2B with Dubon and Hiura on the way and Sogard being a decent fill in even with obvious regression.

[502 to Right]

I'm very glad this possible trade never happened.

[mlloyd10]

I'm very glad this possible trade never happened.

 

Still can happen

[brewmann04]

does sound like DS is still talking to teams

[rickh150]

This still could happen.... straight up swap for Villar.

[Point Beer Is Best]

This still could happen.... straight up swap for Villar.

 

Assuming both players would clear revocable waivers, which is doubtful.

[benji]

Why not just claim him if he gets to the Brewers? Detroit gets out of contract, Brewers get better at 2b without giving up a prospect. Everybody wins lol

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jerichoholicninja]

Provided we're not giving up much, I see little downside to acquiring him. He's not blocking anyone this year or next unless you think Villar is actually last year's Villar and not the rest of his career Villar.