Ian Kinsler

[danzig6767]

Jonathan Villar is an overpay in my opinion. Kinsler is old, not playing incredibly well, and owed a good amount of money. You are vastly underrating Villar's value due to a bad year.

I agree that we very well could be seeing the end of Kinsler's effectiveness as a hitter. He's 35 and father time can hit athletes abruptly, not just gradually and at his current rate, he's overpaid.

 

As for Villar, i agree that this is maybe just a bad year for him where his confidence went into the dumpster and he could rebound next year. Turning down that extension and struggling could also have gotten in his head.

 

That said, he's always going to be a low IQ player on the bases and unreliable defensively. It's in his DNA, so he has to hit well to offset his other negatives. Rebounding next year to only say a .750ish OPS won't leave him that valuable when he's running into numerous head scratching outs and being erratic defensively.

[RockCoCougars]

This seems pointless to me. Brewers have plenty of options at second. Kinsler would require an over pay in both prospects and dollars. Same with Verlander.

[Eye Black]

From the Detroit Free Press article titled Ian Kinsler to Brewers? Tigers second baseman unfazed by trade rumors thought it was interesting that he actually acknowledged some of the factors that went into his 10-team no trade list. I know many of these factors (including taxes) are well known reasoning used by a player and agent when devising a no-trade list, but it's not that often a player actually recites their reasoning for reporters.

 

From the article...

 

Kinsler does have a partial no-trade clause that allows him to block trades from a list of 10 teams submitted before the season.”I don’t know what they are,” Kinsler said of who those 10 teams are. “I would have to look and see what the 10 teams are.”

 

Kinsler was asked what goes into determining which 10 teams to choose and said he discusses it with his agent and his wife: “There’s a lot of different things that factor in: Who is playing second base? How much taxes are? If the team is a winning team? There’s a lot of things that factor into it.”

Some other slightly more abrasive answers from Kinsler as the article continues, but I don't blame him for not being thrilled with being asked how he feels about the trade rumors.

[WV Brew]

If they want a second baseman why not give Orf a run out? He has a .381 OBP which equals his career average. It's true that he has no power but so what? They already have that. Only Sogard and Santana have higher OBP with the Brewers.

[Devinep]

Kindler has the lowest Babip and best hard-contact rate this year in his career. He could still turn it around. Combine that with doing Detroit the favor of salary relief and Kinzlers good defense and it could make sense. Villar has been one of the worst starters in baseball this year and Sogard is versatile (and will come back to Earth).

[pacopete4]

Just play Villar and Sogard.

[brewmann04]

I agree use the two 2nd baseman you have seem like Cc thinks Villar has turned the corner

[Boomer5]

Just play Villar and Sogard.

 

Agree X 100000

[adambr2]

That said, I'm not optimistic that the Sogard honeymoon phase is going to last much longer.

[Boomer5]

I really have no idea why Kinsler is a guy we are even thinking about now. Is our clubshouse in trouble that his intangibles matter? Doesn't seem that way. This seems like a close group.

 

We have Sogard as a stop gap and Villar as the lottery ticket. We have Dubon and Hiura on the farm. We were just told 4 months ago we had no use for a 2B only player. Why trade anything for one now when we gave up a superior player?

[Boomer5]

That said, I'm not optimistic that the Sogard honeymoon phase is going to last much longer.

 

[sarcasm]You don't think a 31 year old having a career year after having a 609 OPS in 1331 PA's seems like a fluke to you?[/sarcasm]

[nate82]

If the Brewers are going to trade for a 2B they should trade for Dee Gordon from the Marlins.

[JosephC]

I'm starting to warm up to the Brewers picking up Kinsler. Even in a down year he is still an average bat for a middle infielder (.241/.325/.394/.719) and he currently has a .254 BABIP which indicates the slash line probably goes up. His defense is excellent. Currently a +8 DRS and +15.9 UZR/150 and the defensive metrics have him as one of the better defensive second basemen in baseball over the last 3 or 4 seasons. Even if the guy doesn't hit at all he still brings value with his glove. Veteran of 37 post-season games. The 2018 option is for only 10 million and he doesn't have to OPS .750+ to make him a valuable player when considering the defense he brings.

 

Thing I really like is it sounds like there is no interest other than the Brewers and Red Sox and the Red Sox would want him to play 3B, but since he's only played a total of 2 MLB innings at third base it's not likely the Red Sox are going to make that much of an offer. Sounds like the Tigers want to move him and it could be a chance for the Brewers to pick up a solid player at a bargain price.

 

A Kinsler acquisition makes no sense if Stearns sees Villar as the Brewer's long-term answer at second base, but with the way this year has gone that is very questionable. If not, Kinsler is an ideal candidate to fill in for a year-plus until Mauricio Dubon is ready and if Dubon isn't the answer than it's Isan Diaz turn.

[pacopete4]

That said, I'm not optimistic that the Sogard honeymoon phase is going to last much longer.

 

It probably won't. He wasn't any good before his hot streak. That's okay, then just ride Villar into the ground and hope he'll come out of it. If not, make an adjustment in the offseason. A much younger and cheaper adjustment.

[JosephC]

Red Sox just promoted Rafael Devers. The market for Kinsler might now be Milwaukee and nobody else. Perhaps a real bargain opportunity for Stearns if the Tigers are set on moving Kinsler and saving some money.

[brewmann04]

if the brewers get him cheap no issue but like who we have and we have a prospect in triple a

[LouisEly]

I have a feeling that Milwaukee's interest in Kinsler is nothing more than "we'll take him if you take less in prospects for Wilson".

 

Kinsler had a great year last year, but it was far and away the best of his last six seasons. I want no part of him unless it means no top-15 prospects for Wilson.

[adambr2]

Ya know, would a trade of Villar for Kinsler be that out of the realm of possibility?

 

Villar has 4 years of control, is cheaper, has played better recently, and could be a bounce back candidate. Kinsler would provide Detroit salary relief and would make them younger and faster.

 

Kinsler gives Milwaukee a veteran presence and polished bat. He hit 29 HRs last year, strikes out much less than Villar, walks at a good clip, and allows the Brewers to have a good bridge to younger hOmegrown 2B in 2019. He hits lefties well. He and Sogard could be a good tandem at 2B for a couple of seasons.

 

If we really want to give up on Villar, which I feel iffy about, Villar for Kinsler straight up actually makes a ton of sense for both sides.

 

It makes sense for us because if we trade for Kinsler we are basically giving up on Villar anyway. He's not a good super utility candidate and he'll just rot on the bench if we had Kinsler. Kinsler would be controlled through next season which would be exactly what we need to bridge the gap to Dubon/Hiura/Diaz.

 

It makes sense for Detroit because they are in a good position to buy low on a young controlled 2B who had 19 HRs and 60+ steals last year. They need to get younger.

 

I don't know if I'm really crazy about trading for Kinsler but if we did Villar for Kinsler actually makes a lot of sense to me.

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

Villar, Ray and Diplan for Kinsler and Wilson? Kinsler helps bridge the gap for Dubon and Diaz. Wilson takes the pressure off of Barnes and Knebel, reducing their innings and not burning them out. Ray and Diplan are both decent B level prospects.

If the Brewers are not going to acquire talent they need to put Barnes, Knebel and Hughes on the block. Adding will keep attendance high. If nothing is added and they continue to slide, enjoy 20,000 in August and less in September.

[wildcat2237]

Jerry Crasnick with more on the Brewers and Kinsler:

 

The Brewers, who are trying desperately to turn things around, are actively exploring both starter and relief options. As ESPN's Buster Olney reported, they've also talked to Detroit about second baseman Ian Kinsler. But this appears to be more a case of Detroit trying to link Kinsler with reliever Justin Wilson and move a veteran salary. The Brewers would love to have Kinsler, but pitching is their main priority at the moment. Kinsler has a $10 million club option for 2018 with a $5 million buyout. If the Brewers were to assume that financial obligation, it could lessen the player package Detroit receives for Wilson.

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0681139156012765518-4

[rickh150]

Just get Kinsler for bit prospects now; we have a big question mark at 2B too. Then we can look at pitching.

[Warning Track Power]

If the Brewers are going to trade for a 2B they should trade for Dee Gordon from the Marlins.

I would like this move given Counsell's propensity to run. However, I would not offer a significant amount of talent to acquire him (Cordell-type) given Dubon is in Triple AAA and Diaz is still coming.

 

A deal of Cordell and Villar for Dee is about the extent of what I would offer.

[Boomer5]

If the Brewers are going to trade for a 2B they should trade for Dee Gordon from the Marlins.

I would like this move given Counsell's propensity to run. However, I would not offer a significant amount of talent to acquire him (Cordell-type) given Dubon is in Triple AAA and Diaz is still coming.

 

A deal of Cordell and Villar for Dee is about the extent of what I would offer.

 

Hiura is going to pass Diaz if he hasn't already. At this point, Diaz doesn't appear to be a future major leaguer. He is still young of course but a 718 OPS in A doesn't suggest he is a top 10 prospect.

 

Dubon is interesting though he doesn't seem like a difference maker that Hiura will be.

[Warning Track Power]

Hiura is going to pass Diaz if he hasn't already. At this point, Diaz doesn't appear to be a future major leaguer. He is still young of course but a 718 OPS in A doesn't suggest he is a top 10 prospect.

 

Dubon is interesting though he doesn't seem like a difference maker that Hiura will be.

I will be curious to see what position Hiura ends up long term. Is it guaranteed he will end up at 2B? What other position is possible if not there?

[mlloyd10]

Hiura could be our starting 2b sometime next yr.