Brent Suter Graduates!

[reillymcshane]

I'm very excited to announce that Brent Suter has topped the 50 inning mark, and therefore is ineligible for our Top 25 poll.

 

Enjoy!

[82brewcrew82]

Welcome to the Ronnie Gideon era.

[FVBrewerFan]

Clancy must feel like a proud father right about now.

[Jenkins5]

Clancy must feel like a proud father right about now.

 

I've long waited for the day to not see Suter as a top 3 prospect in rankings. Like Suter but no where near that high of an opinion on him as a prospect.

 

Who is next Clancy?! Yamamoto or Perrin?

[FVBrewerFan]

Clancy must feel like a proud father right about now.

 

I've long waited for the day to not see Suter as a top 3 prospect in rankings. Like Suter but no where near that high of an opinion on him as a prospect.

 

Who is next Clancy?! Yamamoto or Perrin?

 

Nope you don't even wanna know. Was going to be Cooper. Hint is initials RG.

[Jenkins5]

Gideon lost all his value after the college hitter left Helena.... just another one of those college Helena wonders.

[clancyphile]

Wait and see, folks... wait and see...

 

Mua ha ha ha...

 

EDIT: Seriously, at this point, Corbin Burnes would have to be the prohibitive favorite based on his performance, although Nate Griep looks like someone who could be a fast riser for the back end of the bullpen, Troy Stokes Jr. has emerged as probably the best all-around bat among outfield players, and Trent Clark's added power and superb OBP skills all recommend themselves as well.

[Jenkins5]

Wait and see, folks... wait and see...

 

Mua ha ha ha...

 

EDIT: Seriously, at this point, Corbin Burnes would have to be the prohibitive favorite based on his performance, although Nate Griep looks like someone who could be a fast riser for the back end of the bullpen, Troy Stokes Jr. has emerged as probably the best all-around bat among outfield players, and Trent Clark's added power and superb OBP skills all recommend themselves as well.

 

You know.... I like all those choices!

[clancyphile]

Wait and see, folks... wait and see...

 

Mua ha ha ha...

 

EDIT: Seriously, at this point, Corbin Burnes would have to be the prohibitive favorite based on his performance, although Nate Griep looks like someone who could be a fast riser for the back end of the bullpen, Troy Stokes Jr. has emerged as probably the best all-around bat among outfield players, and Trent Clark's added power and superb OBP skills all recommend themselves as well.

 

You know.... I like all those choices!

 

Not sure what happened with Perrin - that bullpen time was mind-boggling.

 

Gideon flashed something in June... dunno what the deal he had in April and May... still a prospect, but he may drop. Clark and Michael Reed are probably the two best OBP guys in the system, and both seem to have power and speed, too.

[Mass Haas]

We could do a search and pull up all the posts giving clancyphile a hard time about his Brent Suter #1 prospect obsession, but we don't want to embarrass all those posters.

 

Kudos, Harold, for sticking by your guns.

[clancyphile]

We could do a search and pull up all the posts giving clancyphile a hard time about his Brent Suter #1 prospect obsession, but we don't want to embarrass all those posters.

 

Kudos, Harold, for sticking by your guns.

 

Some of my picks have lamed out over the years... so I don't blame people for being skeptical.

 

Ronnie Gideon may be a flameout (although I think it's more an adjustment to full-season ball and the colder weather in Wisconsin - he may do better repeating the level).

 

Mitch Ghelfi missed a lot of time this year, as did Michael Reed. BTW, do you know why Perrin was stuck in the pen for a lot of this year? I had him at #7 this year, but he kinda vanished for the first half.

[MrTPlush]

We could do a search and pull up all the posts giving clancyphile a hard time about his Brent Suter #1 prospect obsession, but we don't want to embarrass all those posters.

 

Kudos, Harold, for sticking by your guns.

 

I never really had a problem with Clancy believing Suter could be an MLB player. If I recall one of the recent times he rated him #1 he also called him a mid rotation guy. I just don't get how in a deep system our #1 guy isn't anything short of a potential All Star. If you are going to rate Suter #1 he better be a future ace in your mind.

 

Too bad Clancy rates these unknowns way too high. If he rated them more like 15-20 range people might take them more seriously and be interested in his view. When you put them above 5 or so Top 100 prospects it's hard to even take seriously. Being aggressive when rating certain guys is fine just don't over do it. I love Monte Harrison and will rank him higher than most, but I won't rate him #1.

[adambr2]

We could do a search and pull up all the posts giving clancyphile a hard time about his Brent Suter #1 prospect obsession, but we don't want to embarrass all those posters.

 

Kudos, Harold, for sticking by your guns.

 

I never really had a problem with Clancy believing Suter could be an MLB player. If I recall one of the recent times he rated him #1 he also called him a mid rotation guy. I just don't get how in a deep system our #1 guy isn't anything short of a potential All Star. If you are going to rate Suter #1 he better be a future ace in your mind.

 

Too bad Clancy rates these unknowns way too high. If he rated them more like 15-20 range people might take them more seriously and be interested in his view. When you put them above 5 or so Top 100 prospects it's hard to even take seriously. Being aggressive when rating certain guys is fine just don't over do it. I love Monte Harrison and will rank him higher than most, but I won't rate him #1.

 

Yeah, I think it's over the top, but I guess I understand that people have different ways of evaluating prospects, too.

 

Which is more important when ranking prospects, ceiling, or floor? Obviously you take a prospect like Corey Ray, or Isan Diaz, and you've got a much higher ceiling than Suter. You've also got a much lower floor, since Suter is already contributing at the big league level, and there is a chance that Ray and Diaz never do.

 

So I guess you could say that he just values floor that much, but I suppose Ronnie Gideon kind of throws that theory out the window.

[FVBrewerFan]

Be high on a guy, and call your shot, great. No problem with that. But putting him at #1 skews the list. Not a big deal really, I like different views.

[clancyphile]

We could do a search and pull up all the posts giving clancyphile a hard time about his Brent Suter #1 prospect obsession, but we don't want to embarrass all those posters.

 

Kudos, Harold, for sticking by your guns.

 

I never really had a problem with Clancy believing Suter could be an MLB player. If I recall one of the recent times he rated him #1 he also called him a mid rotation guy. I just don't get how in a deep system our #1 guy isn't anything short of a potential All Star. If you are going to rate Suter #1 he better be a future ace in your mind.

 

Too bad Clancy rates these unknowns way too high. If he rated them more like 15-20 range people might take them more seriously and be interested in his view. When you put them above 5 or so Top 100 prospects it's hard to even take seriously. Being aggressive when rating certain guys is fine just don't over do it. I love Monte Harrison and will rank him higher than most, but I won't rate him #1.

 

Yeah, I think it's over the top, but I guess I understand that people have different ways of evaluating prospects, too.

 

Which is more important when ranking prospects, ceiling, or floor? Obviously you take a prospect like Corey Ray, or Isan Diaz, and you've got a much higher ceiling than Suter. You've also got a much lower floor, since Suter is already contributing at the big league level, and there is a chance that Ray and Diaz never do.

 

So I guess you could say that he just values floor that much, but I suppose Ronnie Gideon kind of throws that theory out the window.

 

Gideon's numbers at Helena were eye-popping. Even given that he was a college player, that OPS of 1.010 was still very impressive - not quite Prince Fielder's 1.209 in the Pioneer League, but still way up there. Maybe I read too much into that, I dunno, but I don't really get to see a lot of games, and have never even seen a Brewers home game. I gotta go by the stats and the box scores.

 

The 2015 and 2016 stats for Suter convinced me he was something... is he the sub-3.00 ERA pitcher currently in the rotation? I don't know for sure, but I think he contributes. Even if he reverts to a 4.00 ERA, he is valuable through 2020 as a cheap, reliable rotation arm. His presence means you're not paying $10-15 million a year for Jeff Suppan or Randy Wolf. If he is this good, then stretch him out, and enjoy the TOR starter we got in the 31st round.

 

That's why I dropped Arcia from, 2 to 14 from pre-season 2016 to mid-season 2016. I felt that his lack of offense at Colorado Springs was a red flag. For the most past, with the exception of June, I'm not sure about the bat. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but at the same time... you know, maybe it isn't a bad idea to move Jake Gatewood back to short if he's put the offensive side of things together. I remember Al would always say you don't pay millions for a good field-no hit shortstop. Still makes sense to me. Best not to have a Gantner-type black hole in the lineup.

 

Right now, one of four guys ends up in the top spot of my ballot:

RHP Corbin Burnes - He's got even more statistical dominance than Suter showed.

RHP Nate Griep - Looks like a dominating closer/relief option

OF Trent Clark - Seems to be a 3TO bat who can steal 30-35 bases a season

OF Troy Stokes Jr. - Probably the best all-around bat among outfield prospects in the system

[Brewer Fever]

The problem as I see it isn't so much as placing too much stock in having a high floor or low ceiling, I think it's obvious you put too much stock in stats. That's the consistent theme here. You got way too high on Gideon because of stats. And way too low on Arica because of stats. You put Suter so high because he put up good numbers in Colorado Springs. If you weren't so stat reliant you'd more accurately peg these guys where they belong. You'd still be the guy who has a Suter or Gideon ranked highest but without the blow back. Let's say having Suter around #10 these last 2 years. You'd be getting nothing but props for that.

 

Apology in advance but the inflated rankings for guys like Gideon and Suter just seemed like an attempt to be outlandish. A look at me of sorts.

[Outlander]

I don't think Clancy is ever trying to be outlandish, he really believed Suter was the top prospect and isn't afraid to deviate from ranking norms. I have nevet felt his ranking have skewed the list because even with Suter at #1 it didn't really impact overall rankings.

[82brewcrew82]

I do think he is being outlandish to a point. He knows full well, even anticipates, the reaction he is going to get for ranking these players where he does. I don't think anyone bashed him for being high on a guy like Suter, just being THAT high on the guy. In the end this is a message board. If you are going to post something like that, you are going to have to deal with comes with it. Let's not forget, there have been many other players (I believe Jorge Ortega was one as well as a couple of low level catchers that might not even be in the system any more) were also favorites and those folks didn't pan out at all. He hit on one..........maybe.