Babying Hader

[folly412]

He's a waste as a LOOGY. Use Drake (the R-LOOGY) or go get Wang to do that. Eat up 2+ important innings if he's not going to start this year.

[Jenkins5]

Counsell keeps this thread active again. Counsell can't see the forest before the trees. Hader's​ stuff was electric against Harper. Apparently Counsell wasn't watching.

 

Wow.... Hader just absolutely dominated arguably the best best hitter in baseball tonight!I was amped watching that tonight. Sad CC blew the came by over managing. Hader cranking 97-98 with nasty slider...fired up after challenging and destroying Harper sooo hey, lets pull him to make dumb and unnecessary moves. CC tooks that lose on his chin. Tonight is on him. I am usually lovefest for CC but I was just stunned with his choice there. Made zero sense.

 

Glad Brewers get to see what Hader has been doing and still have no interest in to use him much...

[JohnBriggs12]

He's a waste as a LOOGY. Use Drake (the R-LOOGY) or go get Wang to do that. Eat up 2+ important innings if he's not going to start this year.

 

He's got the best stuff on the team and he's also shown that the bigger the situation, the better he is. He dominated the Yankees before the break in Yankee Stadium and dominated arguably the best hitter in the NL in a game situation. He should be closing if not starting.

[MrTPlush]

Take this from someone who doesn't overreact in the moment(like most in the IGT) and has not been on the Hader love train:

 

Josh Hader should have been left in there and CC way over managed the bullpen today. He made Bryce Harper look foolish. Dude should have been left in there. Dissapointing to say the least how it transpired tonight. Was that some attempt at a huge confidence booster? Leave after dominating Bryce Harper? I don't know...didn't like that at all.

[Eye Black]

Josh Hader's usage (or lack thereof) has been the single most frustrating thing for me this season. I am guessing they aren't comfortable yet with his control, but he is just so tough to square up that the walks don't bother me as much as they normally would. I think they are underutilizing one of the top 2-3 arms on their roster, and it is really costing them.

[burnzy24]

Josh Hader's usage (or lack thereof) has been the single most frustrating thing for me this season. I am guessing they aren't comfortable yet with his control, but he is just so tough to square up that the walks don't bother me as much as they normally would. I think they are underutilizing one of the top 2-3 arms on their roster, and it is really costing them.

 

Agree 100%. It has been difficult watching our best pitching prospect only be used in a limited fashion while the bullpen has been struggling so much. Either use him or send him back down.

[NievesNoNO]

Counsell keeps this thread active again. Counsell can't see the forest before the trees. Hader's​ stuff was electric against Harper. Apparently Counsell wasn't watching.

 

I can't get it out of my head. The thing is he was ready with him, which obviously was good. It was planned out and then Hader flat dominates one of the best hitters in baseball... everything is looking up, Hader has to be jacked up and he's obviously throwing well and then.... nah- give me HUGHES???

[FVBrewerFan]

And if a ground ball stays down an inch, we're not even having this discussion. Or, Hader stays in gives up the lead, and I guarantee some complain why he was left in to face a RH hitter. So it goes. Barnes has hit arough spot. Hughes has been outstanding, got lit up tonight. If Hader is used more regularly as say 8th inning guy, he will get lit up some nights too.

[FVBrewerFan]

Counsell keeps this thread active again. Counsell can't see the forest before the trees. Hader's​ stuff was electric against Harper. Apparently Counsell wasn't watching.

 

I can't get it out of my head. The thing is he was ready with him, which obviously was good. It was planned out and then Hader flat dominates one of the best hitters in baseball... everything is looking up, Hader has to be jacked up and he's obviously throwing well and then.... nah- give me HUGHES???

 

Because CC is the 1st manager ever to use match-ups late in games.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Nelson walks the lead off man, then 3 lefties in a row come up. what was CC thinking????

[OnaBadger58]

Take this from someone who doesn't overreact in the moment(like most in the IGT) and has not been on the Hader love train:

 

Josh Hader should have been left in there and CC way over managed the bullpen today. He made Bryce Harper look foolish. Dude should have been left in there. Dissapointing to say the least how it transpired tonight. Was that some attempt at a huge confidence booster? Leave after dominating Bryce Harper? I don't know...didn't like that at all.

My first reaction was a confidence booster which, if it works, goes basically unnoticed. All i know is the pen will be tested with Blazek and Suter starting the next two games. Hader will need to pitch multiple innings of one game.

[JohnBriggs12]

Take this from someone who doesn't overreact in the moment(like most in the IGT) and has not been on the Hader love train:

 

Josh Hader should have been left in there and CC way over managed the bullpen today. He made Bryce Harper look foolish. Dude should have been left in there. Dissapointing to say the least how it transpired tonight. Was that some attempt at a huge confidence booster? Leave after dominating Bryce Harper? I don't know...didn't like that at all.

My first reaction was a confidence booster which, if it works, goes basically unnoticed. All i know is the pen will be tested with Blazek and Suter starting the next two games. Hader will need to pitch multiple innings of one game.

 

This was about as close to a must win game as there is. Won't matter tomorrow. There won't be a lead to protect. They'll likely be down from the get-go and will be lucky to score more than a run off Scherzer. Hader doesn't need a confidence booster. He's got the best stuff on the team. He knows it. We know it. His teammates know it. Opposing hitters know it. Unfortunately the manager doesn't know it.

[NievesNoNO]

Counsell keeps this thread active again. Counsell can't see the forest before the trees. Hader's​ stuff was electric against Harper. Apparently Counsell wasn't watching.

 

I can't get it out of my head. The thing is he was ready with him, which obviously was good. It was planned out and then Hader flat dominates one of the best hitters in baseball... everything is looking up, Hader has to be jacked up and he's obviously throwing well and then.... nah- give me HUGHES???

 

Because CC is the 1st manager ever to use match-ups late in games.

 

Oh, I hadn't realized what was going on. CC is a good manager, I'm not really bashing him. I like Hughes just fine but it's not like he has some sort of ridiculous splits against RH or like Zimmerman can't hit Rhp. Sometimes given what you see in the actual game matters more than an obscure "odds" play.

[Jenkins5]

It's not like he is a lefty vs lefty loogy guy either. No one hits Hader (except Judge)... lefty, righty, doesn't matter. His BBs are only thing that hurt him at all. Tonight he was looked in & you could see the confidence in his eyes! That was huge situation to put him in & he didn't pitch well or good.... he was pure electric. Not many top notch pitchers come in & just overpower & make Harper look that foolish.... let alone a rookie with what 12 IPs under belt?

 

Amazing moment wasted by terribly overmanaging. Sad. Brinson HR at least cheered me up a little

[OnaBadger58]

Oh, I hadn't realized what was going on. CC is a good manager, I'm not really bashing him. I like Hughes just fine but it's not like he has some sort of ridiculous splits against RH or like Zimmerman can't hit Rhp. Sometimes given what you see in the actual game matters more than an obscure "odds" play.

He went with his "gut" earlier in the inning and Nelson walked the batter on 4-straight (no complaints at all by keeping Nelson in). Perhaps that made him go more by the book?

[FVBrewerFan]

Oh, I hadn't realized what was going on. CC is a good manager, I'm not really bashing him. I like Hughes just fine but it's not like he has some sort of ridiculous splits against RH or like Zimmerman can't hit Rhp. Sometimes given what you see in the actual game matters more than an obscure "odds" play.

He went with his "gut" earlier in the inning and Nelson walked the batter on 4-straight (no complaints at all by keeping Nelson in). Perhaps that made him go more by the book?

 

Right. Sometimes things don't work, whether you go by the book or use your gut. I don't think CC made any horrible decisions. Just horrible results, which happens with this Russian roulette bp.

[NievesNoNO]

Oh, I hadn't realized what was going on. CC is a good manager, I'm not really bashing him. I like Hughes just fine but it's not like he has some sort of ridiculous splits against RH or like Zimmerman can't hit Rhp. Sometimes given what you see in the actual game matters more than an obscure "odds" play.

He went with his "gut" earlier in the inning and Nelson walked the batter on 4-straight (no complaints at all by keeping Nelson in). Perhaps that made him go more by the book?

 

Yeah, I could see that. Judgement call and easy to judge after the fact I guess. It was encouraging to see Hader perform like he did. Hopefully he's in the mix more going forward. Knebel, Hader, Swarzak and Barnes really could be a solid group yet.

[Greenleaf1]

People want to act like Hader should've been in there instead of Barnes, but Barnes pitched well enough to get out of that jam last night and got insanely unlucky. He got the weak bunt, he made good pitches and got two weak grounders, and got unlucky in that one bounced a little too high and one found a hole. If there wasn't a runner on 1st base, Aguilar is playing back and gets that bouncer easily.

 

Personally, once Hader was in, I would've either had him pitch to Zimmermann or just walk him and face Murphy, but it's not like Hughes hasn't been very good lately and even when guys are making contact against Hughes it's on the ground which could've limited the damage a bit more.

[jerichoholicninja]

To me it's not about righty/left matchup, it's about bringing in a guy who pitches to contact versus a strikeout pitcher. There was a base open, if Hader walks him so be it. A double play wasn't needed so stick with the guy with nasty stuff - whether that was Hader or Knebel. Hughes was almost the worst choice to make in that situation.

[burnzy24]

People want to act like Hader should've been in there instead of Barnes, but Barnes pitched well enough to get out of that jam last night and got insanely unlucky. He got the weak bunt, he made good pitches and got two weak grounders, and got unlucky in that one bounced a little too high and one found a hole. If there wasn't a runner on 1st base, Aguilar is playing back and gets that bouncer easily.

 

I dont think anyone is saying hader should have been in there before barnes. Barnes was unlucky. However hader should have pitched to Zimmerman, especially after he flat out embarrassed harper.

[brewmann04]

Agree stop babying the kid

[monty57]

Agree stop babying the kid

 

Agree. He's been up 49 days and has only 13 appearances and 17 IP. He had 52 IP in AAA. At roughly 1/3 IP per day, he's on pace for around 93 innings for the year. He should get around 150 if he wants to be a Brewer starter next year.

 

As much as I disliked watching the 8th inning last night, I'm much more concerned that the best starting pitcher for a franchise that has had tremendous difficulty developing starting pitching, is going to end up a reliever. I don't care what Kansas City did, Hader will be far more valuable to the Brewers as a starter, so if they feel the need to have him in the bullpen this year, then they need to give him a lot more innings than he's getting.

[pacopete4]

Hey good thing Hader can't make this starting rotation so we can see gems like Blazek is giving us. What a joke.

[CheezWizHed]

Agree. He's been up 49 days and has only 13 appearances and 17 IP. He had 52 IP in AAA. At roughly 1/3 IP per day, he's on pace for around 93 innings for the year. He should get around 150 if he wants to be a Brewer starter next year.

 

Yikes, I hope he doesn't reach 150 IP while pitching out of the BP this year. None of our BP guys should be reaching 100 IP out of the BP (with Hader's 52 at AAA, he would need 100 in 4 months). That is incredibly hard on an arm out of the BP.

[hurricanecrush]

I'd like to start stretching him out again and let him get some more extended outings. How about starting him every fifth day in a piggyback situation or "bullpen game" situation. That would be easier in September after callups but I'd rather start it now.