Brewers Core?

[Outlander]

I view Shaw as part of the core but don't see an extension for him coming anytime soon, he will be 31 at the end of his time here just playing it year to year.

[Jenkins5]

To me core players don't need to be stars but solid guys who you can build around & that will be here probably until Arby's is up at least.

 

Shaw could be a more productive McGehee

Domingo Santana is Corey Hart

Jimmy Nelson I'd put as a lower Yovani

 

Think Pina is a guy who could hang around & at least split time or be key bench bat if someone like Nottingham comes up.... productive, great team guy, brings ton of energy to clubhouse.

 

Arica is of course part of the core moving forward.

 

Thames at least until contract is up, no one coming before that in system to push him.

 

Knebel & hopefully Barnes can be.

 

We have a lot of guys with a lot of control, hard to say how it all shakes out. Nelson is only SP right now I care about keeping around. Would say Anderson is core, the rest can go away (Davies, Guerra, Garza)

[OnaBadger58]

I think it is safe to say our core players are not defined compared to the rest of the contending teams. This is the main reason why I think it's too early to make a big splash before the deadline. Too many unknowns at this point.

[CheezWizHed]

In my mind "Core" guys are those you are thinking could likely retire with the team.

 

At this definition, I doubt any of these guys are core.

 

But for a longer term player:

 

Nelson - he has always been a bit of a tease to be dominant with control being his biggest bugaboo, but I think last year's loss of control was a fluke; a worst case outlier. This year is interesting to me because he has changed that way he pitched. For years he was forced to be a lowball pitcher. And now he moved up to a high-ball pitcher. As long as he controls his curveball, he will be effective (same with Anderson and Knebel there). Finally, as a pitcher, we need to take a chance that it is legit.

 

Shaw - The simple reason for him to be considered core is we don't have a replacement. Erceg might be, but is a few years away at this point. His MiLB numbers and scouting back up that he is a legit MLB bat. Maybe not a 900+ bat, but certainly a 750-850 type hitter. With no one to push him out, what other choice do we have? If Erceg starts knocking on the door, then you evaluate how long he stays or if he is trade bait.

 

Santana - I think he is probably the most "legit" of the three. Ironically, he is also the most replaceable with other prospects knocking at the door.

[Greenleaf1]

I view Shaw as part of the core but don't see an extension for him coming anytime soon, he will be 31 at the end of his time here just playing it year to year.

 

Extensions for guys who haven't signed their first big contract yet typically only go a few years beyond free agency anyways. I'm fine locking up Shaw through age 33 or 34, plus those years would likely be club options anyways.

[Oldcity]

Arcia

Brinson

Santana

 

The others are good but no longer young.

[Humans Need Water]

Edit: if we're talking guys who could be here a while (4yrs+) I'd say Santana, Shaw, Arcia, Knebel, Hader. I'd like to add Brinson, Phillips, Woodruff to that list by season's end.

[igor67]

Part of my reasoning for that phrasing is that it provides some clarity, who is worth the risk of a 5+ year contract? Based on the other examples people are providing the other attempts to define a core are whose worth having around for awhile? That's not just subjective it's downright unhelpful for making decisions. We've got a ton of player who we very easily could feel very differently about their evaluations a year from now. A huge part of the roster management has been to rapidly cycle through a lot of guys looking for an opportunity one last time to prove themselves. Between being good at identifying candidates, being willing on that strategy to move on from guys, and a crazy amount of luck that that many nuggets paid off in the same season well, next year could be very different regardless of what any other team in the central does.

[3and2Fastball]

Kiura, Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Arcia. That is the real Brewers core

[FVBrewerFan]

Part of my reasoning for that phrasing is that it provides some clarity, who is worth the risk of a 5+ year contract? Based on the other examples people are providing the other attempts to define a core are whose worth having around for awhile? That's not just subjective it's downright unhelpful for making decisions.

 

That's fine, except your bar has moved from your original post "retire as a Brewer" to now (5 years+) That's a big difference.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Kiura, Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Arcia. That is the real Brewers core

 

2 average middle infielders and 3 back-end starters?

 

Oh boy.

[Ennder]

My core of the team is Arcia and Santana. Some of the prospects obviously will join them but it is just too early to know which ones yet.

[3and2Fastball]

Kiura, Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Arcia. That is the real Brewers core

 

2 average middle infielders and 3 back-end starters?

 

Oh boy.

 

Average? Did you just call Arcia & Kiura average? Wow

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Kiura, Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Arcia. That is the real Brewers core

 

2 average middle infielders and 3 back-end starters?

 

Oh boy.

Dude you have some decent takes from time to time, but seriously cut your losses with this thread. I consider myself somewhat pessimistic about the Brewers this season in that I think they're gonna fade towards the end, but that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the ride thus far. You're just playing devil's advocate at this point.

[OnaBadger58]

Kiura, Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Arcia. That is the real Brewers core

*Hiura

[OnaBadger58]

Kiura, Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Arcia. That is the real Brewers core

*Hiura

[igor67]

I shortchanged myself a little bit in my initial post, partially because any definition is going to be a little bit fuzzy but I never said they had to retire with the Brewers only that one should think about that kind of longevity is a potential. My rationale behind that description was that typically people in the past have argued to lock core players up to long term deals like we did with Braun. Now that doesn't guarantee they retire with us for a variety of reasons, but if you are thinking of going with a long term deal you need to be prepared for injury driven retirements and the like. Trying to be too specific on length of deals for core players gets pretty crazy because even a 5 year deal on someone like Shaw could go south by the time he's 32. I wouldn't worry hugely about it, but it starts to enter my mind. It also depends on young vs. old player skills and just a bunch of other things. Every player is a separate conversation about where is that line. So while unclear I think I've been relatively consistent.

 

If people want to define 'core' as important guys that's fine, but I do not understand how that helps figure out who to trade, extend, or release. I'm comfortable with a definition that says we have a lot of good interesting players who could be here for a few years or might all be moved to let younger prospects play.

[3and2Fastball]

Kiura, Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Arcia. That is the real Brewers core

*Hiura

 

yes, Kiura is my poor attempt at a nickname. K Hiura = Kiura as in Kiura ("cure a") franchise of never winning a World Series

 

I'll let it go

[CheezWizHed]

Kiura, Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Arcia. That is the real Brewers core

*Hiura

 

yes, Kiura is my poor attempt at a nickname. K Hiura = Kiura as in Kiura ("cure a") franchise of never winning a World Series

 

I'll let it go

 

Thank you.

[OnaBadger58]

Kiura, Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Arcia. That is the real Brewers core

*Hiura

 

yes, Kiura is my poor attempt at a nickname. K Hiura = Kiura as in Kiura ("cure a") franchise of never winning a World Series

 

I'll let it go

My apologies

[Greenleaf1]

even a 5 year deal on someone like Shaw could go south by the time he's 32.

 

A 5 year deal on any player could go south. Shaw has shown potential in previous years, this year he made adjustments, cut his strikeouts, and now he's playing insanely consistently all year so far at a top level, plus his defense has been pretty solid too. I'm willing to take the risk on Shaw.

 

The thing about these extensions is that you pretty much have to take the risk with some of these guys early, before they are 100% proven assets (which nobody really is anyways), because that's how you can get the cheap deals that will either allow you to add necessary pieces later or allow you to trade them for big hauls if the team underperforms.

 

If you look at the Brewers recent extension history: If we don't sign Lucroy early before his bat came around, we wouldn't have had nearly as good of an opportunity to trade him and certainly not for the big name prospects we received. Extending Braun was seen as very team friendly and smart at the time. It hasn't played out exactly like we'd want, but Braun is hardly a burden on our team right now with his contract. He also makes less money later in the deal rather than more, so Braun would have to really fall off a cliff performance-wise for that extension to haunt our rebuild. Gomez's extension was reasonable and ended up netting us a huge haul of prospects. Hart signed a 3 year extension and ended up being a huge part of the playoff team.

 

Identifying your core players and signing them to team-friendly extensions is pretty much the name of the game these days. The risk is there, sure, but we have so much room to add money next year that I'd like to start seeing some of it used to lock up some of these players and start to actually build that core.

[MrTPlush]

I'd consider anyone who plays above average or better as a core player. They also have to have 4+ years of control(3.5 right now) and typically young. Because these players are usually cheap and good luck finding someone to outplay them. I personally would label someone as part of the core if they aren't in the MLB

 

 

Likely ones:

Arcia

Santana

Knebel

Shaw

 

Possible:

Thames

Broxton

Nelson

 

 

Don't rule them out:

Villar

Anderson

 

Because he has to be:

Braun

[Humans Need Water]

Kiura, Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Arcia. That is the real Brewers core

 

2 average middle infielders and 3 back-end starters?

 

Oh boy.

What's the reasoning behind your take

[igor67]

I agree that early extensions are the name of the game, but we can only do so many before topping out the payroll. Not all players are equally risky when it comes to extensions. Age is a large factor, so is position, and player skill set. You can't eliminate the risk, but generally the worst player to lock up are the 3TO types who are late bloomers.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Kiura, Burnes, Woodruff, Hader, Arcia. That is the real Brewers core

 

2 average middle infielders and 3 back-end starters?

 

Oh boy.

What's the reasoning behind your take

 

For starters, I agree with MrTPlush's post above. You shouldn't be counting on unproven minor leaguers as your franchises core unless maybe they are a Top 20 prospect in all of baseball, and even then I'd pause.

 

I do agree that Arica could be considered a core player because he's finally doing it at MLB level and is controlled for quite a while. I also think that Lewis Brinson has a more than 50% chance to become a core player also.

 

However, the way I see it:

 

SS Orlando Arcia

Best Case comp: Francisco Lindor

Likely comp: Alcides Escobar

Worst Case comp: Jose Iglesias

 

2B Keston Huira

Best Case comp: Ian Kinsler

Likely comp: Kolten Wong

Worst Case comp: Doesn't make it in the majors/Scooter Gennett

 

LHP Josh Hader

Best Case comp: Chris Sale

Likely comp: Drew Symly

Worst Case comp: Doesn't make it in the majors as a starter/bullpen LHP

 

RHP Corbin Burnes

Best Case comp: Michael Wacha

Likely comp: Jered Eickhoff

Worst Case comp: Doesn't make it in the majors/Jed Bradley

 

RHP Brandon Woodruff

Best Case comp: Dan Straily

Likely comp: Collin McHugh

Worst Case comp: Doesn't make it in the majors/Cody Scarpetta

 

 

We all have high hopes for these minor leaguers and I hope at least one reaches their talent ceiling (best case comp) at the Major League level as a Brewer.

 

However, I simply would not consider Alcides Escobar, Kolten Wong, Drew Symly, Jered Eickhoff, and Colin McHugh as core players on their teams, I guess.

 

Valuable league average regulars and mid-rotation starters, yes.

 

Core players? not yet, at least.