Comparing 2011 to 2017

[mlloyd10]

Trying to compare both teams and seeing what pieces we may be missing - Purely looking at stats

 

2017 vs 2011

C - Pina/Vogt > LuCroy

1B - Thames < Fielder

2B - Villar < Weeks

SS - Arcia > Betancourt

3B - Shaw > McGehee

LF - Braun < Braun

CF - Broxton = Morgan

RF - Hart = Santana

 

 

Anderson >Greinke -

Nelson >Gallardo

Davies < Marcum

Guerra < Wolf

Garza = Narveson

 

Knebel = Axford

Hughes < KRod

Barnes < Hawkins

Drake < Loe

Hader > Estrada

 

2017 has better offense - If we get that Ace type (Archer) and another bullpen arm, we would be a better team than 2011

 

Thoughts?

[3and2Fastball]

2017 defense is much much better, as is the 2017 bench and organizational depth.

[rickh150]

Yo and Greinke were tough.....

Put a couple of those type pitchers on top of our rotation, and the doubters go away.

[DHonks]

Davies is going to have a big 2nd half, get the ERA down, and challenge 20 wins. That will be huge

[logan82]

The 2011 offense was better. Other than CF, that defense in 2011 was pretty brutal. Pitching in 2011 was better. Overall I would take the 2011 team. I still think the Brewers are playing over their head a bit this year.

[MrTPlush]

I will take Morgan over Broxton easily. Would also prefer Hart over Santana. Pitching was way way better. Anderson/Nelson likely fade a bit.

[AKCheesehead]

What I'd change/add:

Anderson = Grienke

Nelson = Gallardo

Drake = Loe

2017 mix < Saito, Mitre

Perez > Counsell

[DocLuna7]

I think we should bring back K Rod just for nostalgia's sake

[stalton]

I think we should bring back K Rod just for nostalgia's sake

 

[sarcasm]...and then flip him for a 3rd prospect.[/sarcasm]

[Boomer5]

The 2011 Brewers won 96 games.

[DuWayne Steurer]

The 2011 offense was better. Other than CF, that defense in 2011 was pretty brutal. Pitching in 2011 was better. Overall I would take the 2011 team. I still think the Brewers are playing over their head a bit this year.

 

I guess you have to look at it with some relativity.

 

2017 team OPS .777

2011 team OPS .750

 

2017 team OPS+ = 100

2011 team OPS+ = 102

 

2017 team ERA = 4.09

2011 team ERA = 3.63

 

2017 team ERA+ = 108

2011 team ERA+ = 109

 

The 2017 team is scoring more runs and has a better team OPS. Is it "better" relative to the competition and the run-scoring opportunities in the league? They seem about even. The 2011 team had better pitching, but again, the ERA+ (a very simplistic measure, I admit) shows that again, relative to the competition, the teams are super similar. A lot of people will say the pitching in 2011 was a LOT better. The pitching this year hasn't really been *that* bad. The bullpen has been better the last few months. The starting rotation (aside from Davies and Guerra) has been better than expected.

 

Are the starters as good as they have performed? Maybe not, but the numbers aren't measuring the actual talent level, they are measuring what has occurred on the field.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

From July 26 to September 5, the 2011 Brewers went 30-8. They had an insane August and won the majority of those games giving up 3 runs or fewer (and put together a 5 game winning streak while never scoring more than 3).

 

I think the 2017 edition has a similarly balanced offensive attack and more depth for sure. Better defense too, definitely up the middle. 2011 pitching feels much, much better, though. After Nelson, I don't have a lot of faith in the rest of the starters. We'll see if Anderson can return to form when he comes back. The difference for me is that the 2011 Brewers had a deep pitching staff that could largely be counted on for quality starts and solid late-inning outs. I still feel like this year's team is going to have to win games 7-5. Maybe somebody from the pen or Davies comes alive, or maybe Suter is for real and Guerra figures out his mechanics and velocity. That's what it'll take for me to really believe, though.

 

Two ten game road trips in the next month, one of them out west. It's tough not to be frustrated when the lead shrinks, but I am trying to remind myself that the overall record matters more right now. Just keep playing well and trying to go 6-4 every 10 or 7-5 every 12. Crew does that, and they're probably right there in September, for the wild card at the very least and hopefully holding off the rest of the Central.

[A Swing and A Drive]

How is Chase Anderson greater or even equal to Zack Greinke?

 

Also, how is Jimmy Nelson greater or even equal to Yovani Gallardo?

 

 

I get that both Anderson Nelson are having breakout seasons, but that is just nuts.

 

I think overall our current offense could be on par with 2011, but 2011 Braun and Fielder are a more potent middle of the lineup.

 

The 2011 rotation after Yo was nothing too special, but that 2011 rotation still had a ton more experience and track record then our current one.

 

Also, the current bullpen overall might be as good but also lacks the experience that the 2011 bullpen had.

[mlloyd10]

How is Chase Anderson greater or even equal to Zack Greinke?

 

Also, how is Jimmy Nelson greater or even equal to Yovani Gallardo?

 

 

I get that both Anderson Nelson are having breakout seasons, but that is just nuts.

 

I think overall our current offense could be on par with 2011, but 2011 Braun and Fielder are a more potent middle of the lineup.

 

The 2011 rotation after Yo was nothing too special, but that 2011 rotation still had a ton more experience and track record then our current one.

 

Also, the current bullpen overall might be as good but also lacks the experience that the 2011 bullpen had.

 

If you would have read...Based purely on Stats...I guess most people don't realize that Grienke had an ERA of 3.83 (yes if FIP was 2.98)

[OnTheBlack]

From July 26 to September 5, the 2011 Brewers went 30-8. They had an insane August and won the majority of those games giving up 3 runs or fewer (and put together a 5 game winning streak while never scoring more than 3).

 

I think the 2017 edition has a similarly balanced offensive attack and more depth for sure. Better defense too, definitely up the middle. 2011 pitching feels much, much better, though. After Nelson, I don't have a lot of faith in the rest of the starters. We'll see if Anderson can return to form when he comes back. The difference for me is that the 2011 Brewers had a deep pitching staff that could largely be counted on for quality starts and solid late-inning outs. I still feel like this year's team is going to have to win games 7-5. Maybe somebody from the pen or Davies comes alive, or maybe Suter is for real and Guerra figures out his mechanics and velocity. That's what it'll take for me to really believe, though.

 

Two ten game road trips in the next month, one of them out west. It's tough not to be frustrated when the lead shrinks, but I am trying to remind myself that the overall record matters more right now. Just keep playing well and trying to go 6-4 every 10 or 7-5 every 12. Crew does that, and they're probably right there in September, for the wild card at the very least and hopefully holding off the rest of the Central.

 

 

Anderson is the guy that I'm surprised by...though less than others. I was going to post a link, but I just recently read an article from fangraphs that was from before the season that had 10 bold predictions across MLB. Two were Brewers related and both were dead on, one was Arcia was going to out produce Aledmys Díaz this year and the other was that Anderson was going to finally pitch to his potential. I guess I never viewed him as having this type of potential, but he definitely did.

 

That 2011 team was more proven, they were deeper with proven pitchers(Grienke was arguably the 4th best pitcher that one year). You also had Weeks, Hart, Braun and Prince all having career years or near career years. I don't think this years team can match that team. This current team has definitely has a more balanced attack, but they don't have that MVP in the middle of the order, they don't have that guy like Prince with a .400 OBP.

 

That said, this year might be the most fun I've had watching the Brewers. If they don't make the playoffs or add anyone that won't change. If the 2011 team didn't make the playoffs that would have been a huge letdown.

 

Of course back in 2011 I still believed Mat Gamel would end up hitting like Ben Gamel currently is.

[gregmag]

I'm just throwing this in here because there's no "2017 Brewers pessimism thread," and I'd feel bad starting one . . . the worst team in baseball just pretty much played us to a draw in a home series. That's bad. I don't mind game 2, because Nola's good, but the other win and the loss didn't exactly look like the work of a playoff team.

 

It's only one series, yeah, but I'm worried. Right now I don't know if we have the arms to make up for the inevitable lapses in offense. FWIW, I don't think Sonny Gray is anything close to the answer. We need either (a) Guerra to find his mojo, (b) Davies to find his mojo, or © Woodruff to make a splash, in order to hold the fort until Anderson gets back; then we need Anderson to pick up where he left off. That's a lot to ask for.

 

OTOH, my favorite thing about this team is how they haven't folded. When they were in danger of losing the division lead, they won. They hadn't lost ground in the standings before yesterday in quite a while. They've earned respect.