Quintana to The Cubs for a lot

[A Swing and A Drive]

 

I doubt the Cubs have the ammunition left to either acquire Gray or raise the cost to the Brewers unless they want to include Happ. I'm not even sure Baez or even Schwarber is all that exciting and even if they were, it would take away from the MLB roster.

 

Schwarber alone is probably more valuable than any one piece the Brewers could offer. Ian Haap also.

[pacopete4]

 

I doubt the Cubs have the ammunition left to either acquire Gray or raise the cost to the Brewers unless they want to include Happ. I'm not even sure Baez or even Schwarber is all that exciting and even if they were, it would take away from the MLB roster.

 

Schwarber alone is probably more valuable than any one piece the Brewers could offer. Ian Haap also.

 

Happ, maybe. Schwarber? No way.

[Boomer5]

 

I doubt the Cubs have the ammunition left to either acquire Gray or raise the cost to the Brewers unless they want to include Happ. I'm not even sure Baez or even Schwarber is all that exciting and even if they were, it would take away from the MLB roster.

 

Schwarber alone is probably more valuable than any one piece the Brewers could offer. Ian Haap also.

 

In my post I said Happ would be enough to aquire Gray but that takes away from the MLB roster.

 

Schwarber is in the eye of the beholder. Who do they see? The guy who looked like the next great LH slugger or the guy who can't field at all and is hitting .178 in mid July with a -0.6 WAR and has his service clock already running?

[brewcrewdue80]

Schwarber could be a DH/1b for Oakland. What if the Cubs returned Russell and Schwarber for Gray? All things considered The Cubs could be dealing away their troubled promising players and trade Gray this offseason for something not so troubling. Dies Oakland have an old 2b or SS to pass on with the trade? Itd be like us sending Escobar for Yuni.

[Boomer5]

Schwarber could be a DH/1b for Oakland. What if the Cubs returned Russell and Schwarber for Gray? All things considered The Cubs could be dealing away their troubled promising players and trade Gray this offseason for something not so troubling. Dies Oakland have an old 2b or SS to pass on with the trade? Itd be like us sending Escobar for Yuni.

 

I'm sure Oakland would do that. Two buy low guys for Gray? Moneyball indeed.

 

Still this just highlights that the only meaningful ammo left for the Cubs is their MLB roster.

[Ennder]

Schwarber does seem like the type of guy that Oakland likes. Bad fielding slugger who takes walks.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Schwarber is at 555 MLB plate appearances for his career thus far - just enough to qualify for 1 season although the MLB average for PA's for a heart of the order hitter (i.e., #5 hitter) is around 700 over 162 games. His career MLB OPS is 0.763 and he's a 0.210 hitter who can't play defense. He also has 157 MLB strikeouts (28% K rate). That's Adam Dunn K rate territory, only he's OPS-ing close to 100 points lower than Dunn's career average.

 

If Schwarber is going to be the next great left-handed slugger, he's got to be a different player than what he's shown at the MLB level to date.

[brewcrewdue80]

Thinking on if Baez can play SS Happ moves to 2b and Zobrist sits in OF....or maybe Happ with Schwarber keeping the middle infield intact.

[owbc]

I want Schwarber off the Cubs. He's 24. He's probably going to have a huge age 26 or 27 season like Travis Shaw is having. Perfect fit for an AL team.

 

Schwarber at age 24: .178/.300/.394

Aaron Judge at age 24: .179/.263/.345

[bigred]

Or possibly, Theo is just making a feeble attempt at getting DS to make a nervous decision to make a trade for a starter. Just a thought. To Theo: "Good luck with that ya Cha Chi!"

[reillymcshane]

For the Cubs, the guy I would want to give up is Schwarber. He's a guy without a position. He should play DH or 1B - and that's not happening in Chicago.

 

Cub fans became overly attached to Schwarber based on a few big moments. The reality is that he hit just fine (at least for that first year or so) for a young guy. He has 30 HR potential - that's pretty tantalizing. But the reality was that he was a left handed hitting Mike Napoli (at least at the plate). Mediocre average, lots of power potential, below average baserunner - but he was never the next Mark McGwire (even if Cub fans thought that's what he was).

 

Doesn't mean the guy won't someday bang out 40 dingers - but he's likely going to do it hitting .250 and not .300.

 

So, if I were the Cubs, I'd be building a trade around Schwarber if possible. Happ could play LF, Baez 2B, Russell SS. Zobrist is probably best as a utility guy - sort of our Hernan Perez. The guy is 35, and age may be finally catching up with him. But the Cubs are stuck with him for 2.5 more years - so they should keep him fresh. Zobrist might be best getting 350-400 ABs instead of being out there every day.

 

Schwarber, Jeimer Candelario and maybe a low level pitching prospect might work for Oakland. Although I think someone said that Oakland wanted a major pitching prospect back in any deal for Gray. If that's true, this doesn't work.

 

And it doesn't work if Oakland isn't enthralled with Schwarber. Who knows. Fun to speculate.

[Boomer5]

Or possibly, Theo is just making a feeble attempt at getting DS to make a nervous decision to make a trade for a starter. Just a thought. To Theo: "Good luck with that ya Cha Chi!"

 

Assuming the Brewers are in first by late July, they will be trading for a starter. Junior looks done (7.15 FiP) and it would be unwise to count on Garza to finish strong and healthy. That's leaves Suter as our 4 assuming Anderson comes back and can be an ace like he has been this year but hasn't been before.

[NievesNoNO]

I don't think the Cubs have the necessary minor league prospects for Gray. They do have young MLB guys, as others have mentioned. Happ straight up would be an excellent get for the A's, imo.

[danzig6767]

I wouldn't be so certain in saying the Cubs have crippled themselves four years from now.

 

That is a long time and Theo is an upper tier GM. A wide variety of things can happen over those four years in how they draft, international signings, trades, free agency, etc. No question these trades will make it harder for Theo to have the Cubs still be really good 3-4-5 years from now, but he's not like some dumb GM's of past big market teams who signed a bunch of bad free agent contracts and left the organization in shambles. I'm not saying that he's infallible, but he is a bright guy so i wouldn't just go assuming that disaster is coming for the Cubs in the time frame you listed.

 

He could have done all that and still had a bunch of young players filtering into the team at the same time though. I looked at this Cubs team as one that was going to be a dominant team for the next 10 years or so mid season last year. Now I see it as one that is just going to have the typical 5 year window and a GM hoping he can stretch it with good moves. The franchise outlook has changed dramatically in the past calendar year. It won a World Series and I fully expect them to be in the hunt for at least one more over the next 4 years so it was a good move. But this certainly has helped the Brewers future as well. I don't really see how that is debatable given everything they have traded away with a focus on this 5 year window of Rizzo/Bryant.

 

I guarantee you that if their rotation had held up this year and they were in first place that this trade would not have happened. This is Theo trying to bandaid something that went wrong way before he expected it to. It doesn't mean it is a bad move but it is something good for the Brewers long term.

Keep in mind Theo got Arrieta in a trade for nothing and while Hendricks also came in a Dempster trade, he was only an 8th round pick.

 

Obviously the incredible Arrieta turnaround isn't something which happens often, but there are ways to add highly productive talent without a top 5 picks or in trades like the Quintana one. A smart GM just has to try and target who they see as undervalued talent and then hope with some luck mixed in, strike silver or gold.

 

Stearns has done it with multiple guys like Thames, Aguliar, Shaw, Broxton, etc. Granted, the Cubs are in a different place in the competitive landscape, but i don't think that Theo will just give up on trying to find undervalued talent and the draft can land multiple guys outside the first round who become better than expected. Look at our farm system. Same for the international market.

[leitermab07]

I don't think the Cubs have the necessary minor league prospects for Gray. They do have young MLB guys, as others have mentioned. Happ straight up would be an excellent get for the A's, imo.

 

After what the White sox just got for a controlled starter, there is no way in hell Beane would accept that. He is looking for something similar to the Quintana trade and i don't blame him.

[MrTPlush]

Bob Nightengale tweeted the Brewers pursuit of Jose Quintana was a serious one. Will be interesting to see if Stearns can nab one of the remaining top of the rotation starters. At least ones fancier than a mid rotation guy.

[NievesNoNO]

I don't think the Cubs have the necessary minor league prospects for Gray. They do have young MLB guys, as others have mentioned. Happ straight up would be an excellent get for the A's, imo.

 

After what the White sox just got for a controlled starter, there is no way in hell Beane would accept that. He is looking for something similar to the Quintana trade and i don't blame him.

 

 

He might be but I don't think he'll get it. Gray doesn't have the same track record as Quintana and is controllable for one fewer season. I just think a 22 year old middle infielder who's already proven he can hit MLB pitching with 25-30 hr power upside is a pretty valuable thing.

[Eye Black]

Bob Nightengale tweeted the Brewers pursuit of Jose Quintana was a serious one. Will be interesting to see if Stearns can nab one of the remaining top of the rotation starters. At least ones fancier than a mid rotation guy.

The CSN Chicago White Sox Podcast from yesterday is an interesting listen. They speculate that the Brewers may have been the team that was primarily in contact with Rick Hahn leading up to Quintana's start on Friday night. More concretely if you go to around the 7:30 mark they discuss when things heated up on Sunday which is also apparently when the Cubs started to get seriously involved, and at the 9:00 minute mark they mention that they know without a doubt that the Brewers (and Braves) were at the finish line or "the five yard line" to use a football analogy.

[MrTPlush]

Bob Nightengale tweeted the Brewers pursuit of Jose Quintana was a serious one. Will be interesting to see if Stearns can nab one of the remaining top of the rotation starters. At least ones fancier than a mid rotation guy.

The CSN Chicago White Sox Podcast from yesterday is an interesting listen. They speculate that the Brewers may have been the team that was primarily in contact with Rick Hahn leading up to Quintana's start on Friday night. More concretely if you go to around the 7:30 mark they discuss when things heated up on Sunday which is also apparently when the Cubs started to get seriously involved, and at the 9:00 minute mark they mention that they know without a doubt that the Brewers (and Braves) were at the finish line or "the five yard line" to use a football analogy.

 

Thanks for the link! One must wonder if the Brewers success this year played heavily in the Cubs decision to pull the trigger.

[Eye Black]

The Braves offer for Quintana included SS Ozzie Albies (Link) so if the Brewers were seriously in the mix I have to assume their offer included at least one of Hader or Brinson. Just speculation, but I would guess that Corey Ray was in the mix as well.

[wallus]

NSBB is giving some of you guys the business about this thread if you care...

[Eye Black]

NSBB is giving some of you guys the business about this thread if you care...

Never heard of it, but it sounds miserable.

[MrTPlush]

Some things about forums I just don't get. One of the main ones is people who enjoy frequenting other team's forums. Even worse is when they make an account. Why? You must either really like arguing or your team's forum really sucks that much. I just will never understand the attraction.

[CheezWizHed]

I can see going to another team's forum to see what they thought of the trade. But in this case, it would be the White Sox. Seeing what we think of the trade is a bit odd...

[And That]

I tried going there to see what was happening, but my eyeballs exploded between all of the ads, obnoxious jpegs, gifs, and quotes of quotes of quotes. It's kind of like a message board representation of going to a game at Wrigley Field.