Quintana to The Cubs for a lot

[Patrick425]

I think an equivelant Brewers offer would be

 

OF Lewis Brinson

LHP Josh Hader

1B/C Jacob Nottingham

1B Garrett Cooper

 

 

Not sure I agree with this. Brinson and Hader both have at least had a taste of MLB experience. They are AAA/MLB players. Jimenez and Cease are A ball players that are still at least 2 years away from MLB. Quintana has proven himself and should be able to solidly contribute the the Cubs starting pitching for the next 3+ years. I don't think this trade is nearly as laughable or one sided as most others on this board do. If Quintana was a half year rental or even a FA after next year, I would get the criticism of the trade, but there is a good chance that at least one of the two main prospects that they traded away will not pan out. I just don't have the blind faith confidence in prospects like others do I guess.

 

Edit: Nottingham and Cooper are also at a more advanced level than Rose and Flete (who are also A ball players).

[liveforoctober]

Quintana followed Holland in their rotation and would have pitched Sunday for the ChiSox if their rotation held. The Cubs have announced Mike Montgomery as their starter tomorrow, haven’t said after that. Wondering if they throw Quintana in on Saturday right away?

[liveforoctober]

Rotation update

 

Cubs vs Brewers

RHP Jake Arrieta RHP Jimmy Nelson

LHP Jon Lester RHP Chase Anderson (Suter to fill in)

LHP Jose Quintana RHP Junior Guerra (Woodruff to fin in?)

RHP Kyle Hendricks RHP Zach Davies

RHP Jon Lackey RHP Matt Garza

 

How does this move NOT effect the Brewers this season?

 

Thus far, the Brewers have done a really good job at beating the team they are playing that day. In that regard, this move effects the Brewers once or twice the rest of the way.

[bill hAll Star]

Rotation update

 

Cubs vs Brewers

RHP Jake Arrieta RHP Jimmy Nelson

LHP Jon Lester RHP Chase Anderson (Suter to fill in)

LHP Jose Quintana RHP Junior Guerra (Woodruff to fin in?)

RHP Kyle Hendricks RHP Zach Davies

RHP Jon Lackey RHP Matt Garza

 

How does this move NOT effect the Brewers this season?

 

It affects the Brewers for sure, but *this sounds insane to say* the only major mismatch if lining those guys up in 2017 is Quintana is better than what we know of Guerra right now. He could return to '16 Guerra or Woodruff could hit the ground running and I'd call it mostly even...heck, I'd even maybe give the Brewers the edge in almost all of those matchups*.

 

* - this probably does put a little bit too much early 2017 spin on things.

[tmwiese55]

I know those prospects are rated highly, but they're in A ball, if I read correctly. There's a lot that can happen between now and then so I don't think this offer is all that spectacular so I think the Cubs did very well here. Clearly helps their big weakness for this year, plus gives some stability the next few years with the upcoming turnover to their rotation. One would think they'd value our near ready types like Phillips, Hader, Brinson more than guys this far away. But of course maybe Brinson/Hader/Woodruff were immediately not offered by us. Surprising Sox rushed into this and didn't try to drive the price up, but maybe they just valued the top 5 guy that much and are convinced on him.

 

And in case people haven't noticed. Quintana has been back to his old self for the last 7 starts, something like a 2.7 era I think.

[lcbj68c]

Rotation update

 

Cubs vs Brewers

RHP Jake Arrieta RHP Jimmy Nelson

LHP Jon Lester RHP Chase Anderson (Suter to fill in)

LHP Jose Quintana RHP Junior Guerra (Woodruff to fin in?)

RHP Kyle Hendricks RHP Zach Davies

RHP Jon Lackey RHP Matt Garza

 

How does this move NOT effect the Brewers this season?

 

I don't think you can say it doesn't effect them, but I think it's minimal.

 

While not a crapshoot nor an absolute certainty, the Cubs Head to Head lines up 3,4,5 against the Brewers at end of July, 2,3,4 in early September and 3,4,5,1 in late September. So 3 starts? And only see Arrietta and Lester once a piece. I'm not wringing my hands over this. The Brewers have the 3rd easiest schedule, statistically speaking in MLB the 2nd half. Just beat who you should beat, go .500 against the Cubs and Cardinals and make the Cubs play .620 ball over the final 70 games. Quintana doesn't change much with what the Brewers have to do.

[KeithStone53151]

Rotation update

 

Cubs vs Brewers

RHP Jake Arrieta RHP Jimmy Nelson

LHP Jon Lester RHP Chase Anderson (Suter to fill in)

LHP Jose Quintana RHP Junior Guerra (Woodruff to fin in?)

RHP Kyle Hendricks RHP Zach Davies

RHP Jon Lackey RHP Matt Garza

 

How does this move NOT effect the Brewers this season?

 

I don't think you can say it doesn't effect them, but I think it's minimal.

 

While not a crapshoot nor an absolute certainty, the Cubs Head to Head lines up 3,4,5 against the Brewers at end of July, 2,3,4 in early September and 3,4,5,1 in late September. So 3 starts? And only see Arrietta and Lester once a piece. I'm not wringing my hands over this. The Brewers have the 3rd easiest schedule, statistically speaking in MLB the 2nd half. Just beat who you should beat, go .500 against the Cubs and Cardinals and make the Cubs play .620 ball over the final 70 games. Quintana doesn't change much with what the Brewers have to do.

 

Head to head matchups between the Brewers and Cubs are almost meaningless during the regular season considering its 6 of 70 remaining games. Quintana makes the Cubs rotation better right now and will help them win more games during the regular season. That's how this move affects the Brewers right now.

[TURBO]

If Quintana comes back to last year's form for the 2nd half, this DOES hurt the Brewers. More wins for the Cubs hurts the Brewers, I don't see how anyone can refute that fact. If he wallows in his current 2017 form, that is a different story.

 

We can spin this any way we want, but the Cubs are making moves to pass us up, and if that involves gutting their system, this helps us in the future, but not for the pennant drive in 2017.

 

I want us to stand pat, not do anything irrationally, and see where it leads. We are deep into a rebuild, and the last thing I want to do is change directions just because the Cubs made a move. I'm glad Quintana is off the market, removes that temptation, now if only someone will swoop in and grab Gray before we do, I'll be happy.

[Ennder]

 

And in case people haven't noticed. Quintana has been back to his old self for the last 7 starts, something like a 2.7 era I think.

 

In 2 starts in July he has a 5.59 ERA.

 

His xFIP and SIERA have been over 4 for a year and a half now. All of his stats have trended the wrong direction since his magnificent 2015, he just had good fortune on some of the higher variance parts of pitching so the ERA looked better than he pitched last season.

 

I think going forward with the league switch Quintana is somewhere between a 3.50 and 4.00 ERA guy. That is certainly useful to the Cubs but it isn't like they got an ace either.

[bill hAll Star]

 

And in case people haven't noticed. Quintana has been back to his old self for the last 7 starts, something like a 2.7 era I think.

 

In 2 starts in July he has a 5.59 ERA.

 

If I had 2 starts and one was against a good (now relatively healthy) Rangers offense and the other was at Coors Field I may be happy with that ERA.

[Greenleaf1]

I like this trade for the Brewers, but not really because of how it affects us this year. For this year, the only difference is that the Cubs now have one more incredibly tough pitcher that we have to face, which is obviously bad for us.

 

However, by gutting the top end of their farm system, this puts the Cubs into a pretty limited competitive window, rather than Stearns' approach of trying to make sure we consistently have talent coming up from the minors. Hopefully this will coincide with the Brewers rebuild just hitting its stride, and we'll have an opening to dominate the NL Central for years while the Cubs go through another rebuild.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I really think Chicago won this trade, hands down.

[Greenleaf1]

I know there's like nobody in the entire city that thinks this way, but if hypothetically you were a fan of both the Cubs AND the White Sox, then I think you'd be a huge fan of this trade.

[bill hAll Star]

I like this trade for the Brewers, but not really because of how it affects us this year. For this year, the only difference is that the Cubs now have one more incredibly tough pitcher that we have to face, which is obviously bad for us.

 

However, by gutting the top end of their farm system, this puts the Cubs into a pretty limited competitive window, rather than Stearns' approach of trying to make sure we consistently have talent coming up from the minors. Hopefully this will coincide with the Brewers rebuild just hitting its stride, and we'll have an opening to dominate the NL Central for years while the Cubs go through another rebuild.

 

The Cubs do have until 2022 to reload their farm system. They'll probably just fill any holes with $20 million dollar players each year until then. Rizzo, Hendricks, Baez, Schwarber, Russell, and Bryant are around through '21, Lester '20, Heyward '22, and Contreras is '23.

 

The 2021-2022 years will be interesting. Will they have a farm to replenish things? Will they have Harper, Quintana, and Darvish on their roster all making $30+ million/year? Will those guys be earning their keep or just dead money?

[homer]

He makes the Cubs better but they overpaid for him. Not sure he's a difference maker though. Watch Zobrist and Schwarber go on a tear and everyone will point to the trade as the reason.

[Patrick425]

I want us to stand pat, not do anything irrationally, and see where it leads. We are deep into a rebuild, and the last thing I want to do is change directions just because the Cubs made a move. I'm glad Quintana is off the market, removes that temptation, now if only someone will swoop in and grab Gray before we do, I'll be happy.

 

I know that right now the Brewers are 5.5 games in first place. Regardless of how many prospects they have or the progress of their rebuild, I don't know what place the Brewers will end up in over the next 4 years. I know the Brewers went through a rebuild before and I believe had the top ranked farm system at one point. They had some of the top ranked prospects (Fielder, Weeks, Braun, Hardy, Hart, Gallardo). This did not translate to a long string of successful years. It translated to 2 playoff appearances. I don't know if the current rebuild will end up more successful or less successful than that. Again, what I do know, is that they are currently 5.5 games in first place.

 

I'm not going to be overly upset if they do nothing (I will be a bit frustrated...we are 5.5 games in front!! right now!), but I sure hope that when we finally get to this "Brewer's golden era" that everyone is expecting with the current rebuild, that there still is not this complete aversion to trading some prospects (with unknown futures) in order to add needed pieces (that have proven MLB track records).

[NievesNoNO]

Fair deal for both sides. Glad the Brewers didn't pony up for this one.

[JohnBriggs12]

The Cubs gave up 4 guys, none of whom would help them before 2020. Quintana solidifies their rotation for that same time period. No brainer for the Cubs. The comparable Brewer offer would be Ray, Freddie Peralta, Luis Aviles and Neuhaus. I'd have done that one in a heartbeat, unfortunately Ray hasn't shown as much as Jimenez and that's the difference.

[82brewcrew82]

The Cubs gave up 4 guys, none of whom would help them before 2020. Quintana solidifies their rotation for that same time period. No brainer for the Cubs. The comparable Brewer offer would be Ray, Freddie Peralta, Luis Aviles and Neuhaus. I'd have done that one in a heartbeat, unfortunately Ray hasn't shown as much as Jimenez and that's the difference.

 

 

I would bet real money that at least Jimenez will/would be up before 2020, maybe even next year. I don't think those four players would net you Jimenez in a trade much less Quintana. In no way are those four players the equivalent of what the Cubs gave up.

[Lathund]

The Cubs gave up 4 guys, none of whom would help them before 2020. Quintana solidifies their rotation for that same time period. No brainer for the Cubs. The comparable Brewer offer would be Ray, Freddie Peralta, Luis Aviles and Neuhaus I'd have done that one in a heartbeat, unfortunately Ray hasn't shown as much as Jimenez and that's the difference.

 

Uhm no, not really. Jimenez and Cease were their #1 and #2 prospects, who just so happens to be in A/A+ ball. Jimenez is #5 on the BA midseason list, one of the most highly regarded prospects in the game. A deal for us would have included Brinson and one of our top pitching prospects. Whether that's Ortiz, Hader, Woodruff or Burnes.

[sveumrules]

Corey Ray is nowhere near the prospect that Jimenez is. Eloy was just ranked number 5 by BA in their midseason update, Corey did not make the list. Jimenez is sporting a 131 wRC+ in high A ball at age 20, Ray is sporting an 88 wRC+ in high A ball at age 22.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I really think Chicago won this trade, hands down.

 

 

Kind of blows your Sonny Gray stuff out of the water #way overpay

[Patrick425]

Corey Ray is nowhere near the prospect that Jimenez is. Eloy was just ranked number 5 by BA in their midseason update, Corey did not make the list. Jimenez is sporting a 131 wRC+ in high A ball at age 20, Ray is sporting an 88 wRC+ in high A ball at age 22.

 

Yeah, I think JohnBriggs12 mentioned that Ray is not as good as Jimenez. Regardless of where Jimenez is ranked on the prospect list, not sure how you can equate him to AAA/MLB players like Hader and Brinson. Seems like many are completely just disregarding that Quintana has started 169 MLB games and is controllable through 2020.

[reillymcshane]

As much as a love Jimenez as a prospect, I think the move is good for the Cubs. They get a key rotation piece for 3.5 years. Right now, they are team that should be in the playoff hunt every year. The biggest issue for them was starting pitching. This move helps address that issue in a big way.

 

Plus, Quintana is pretty cheap, so that frees up money to address other areas of need in the off season (such as another starting pitcher!).

 

Of course, if Quintana goes in the tank or is hurt, it looks terrible. But every move you make (or don't make) is a risk.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I was really hoping the Cubs wasted the their top prospects by trading for a rental like Yu Darvish.

 

It's very rare for a contending team to be able to acquire a young LHP pitcher with 3 1/2 years of control.

 

Sucks that this move hurts the Brewers for a long period of time.

 

It almost cost the Cubs the same for just 2 months of Chapman last July.