Let's say we don't make a significant trade, who would you bring up?

[RobDeer 45]

Let's say DS looks around and finds all the pitchers available are overpriced. What moves could the club make to try and help out the pitching staff?

[liveforoctober]

Woodruff for the rotation. Wang for the bullpen. The position players look set. The one scenario I could see might be if Villar never surfaces and Sogard begins to plummet .. Dejesus Jr could be an option at 2nd, his numbers in Colorado right now are gaudy. He must have altered his swing? He is a repeat of Sogard, why the sudden success?

[DuWayne Steurer]

Well.....

 

I'm not confident that Guerra is *hurt* so much as he's been through the league a few times and most of the guys have seen him now and are starting to figure him out. I just don't see Guerra as being a guy who can be relied on every 5 days. Woodruff, when he's healthy? Maybe even Suter can get 8 or 10 starts before teams start figuring him out (but that's not a "move" per se, as he's already on the team).

 

Wang seems like a logical choice to at least give a shot at this point. I'm not going to be upset if they don't.

 

It seems like the offense doesn't really need to be tinkered with much. Villar is scuffling, but it seems like Counsell still wants to give him the opportunity to work through this and get some ab's.

[JohnBriggs12]

Personally, I think Hader is being underutilized. I'd send him back down and stretch him out for 3 starts and let Wang take his bullpen spot for the time being. Hader could be the difference maker but not pitching 2-3 innings per week.

 

I can see the argument that if it's not broken, don't fix it. But there's a lot of ifs. Can Suter keep this up? Will Guerra get his form back? Garza? How long will it take Anderson not just to get back but get back to the level he was at.

[adambr2]

Anderson and Woodruff look like significant internal additions to me.

 

We'll have to see if Blazek's recent performance is the real deal. I think they're pretty set.

 

I think a dark horse would be Nick Ramirez as a LOOGY/extra bench bat. I'd like to see that.

[clancyphile]

Anderson and Woodruff look like significant internal additions to me.

 

We'll have to see if Blazek's recent performance is the real deal. I think they're pretty set.

 

I think a dark horse would be Nick Ramirez as a LOOGY/extra bench bat. I'd like to see that.

 

Ramirez might be someone to stretch out as a mop-up/extra-innings guy. His bat means you don't need to pinch-hit for him, and he can save the rest of the bullpen.

[Ennder]

Well.....

 

I'm not confident that Guerra is *hurt* so much as he's been through the league a few times and most of the guys have seen him now and are starting to figure him out. I just don't see Guerra as being a guy who can be relied on every 5 days.

 

 

I don't think last season Guerra was for real but I don't buy this explanation at all either. They weren't just swinging at pitches a mile out of the zone all season last season and that has been the problem so far this year. He just can't throw strikes. I'm guessing it is mechanical due to not pitching for a while and quite possibly the injury. After Gallardo hurt his knee he was never the same pitcher again. One injury can derail a pitchers season or even career.

 

I don't think you really bring anyone up unless someone else gets hurt. You could give Wang a chance in the bullpen over one of the mid inning bums. There are 6 weeks between games starting up and September call ups. Maybe if Villar is terrible for 3 weeks you look to make a move for him but I'd assume Sogard is back by then and then you have to wait 2 or 3 weeks for him to be terrible and suddenly it is almost September. I probably just go with what we have until September.

[JohnBriggs12]

Guerra's issues have to do with his velocity being down and as a result he's become more of a nibbler with his fastball and getting behind consistently. That doesn't allow him to use his out pitch. It was up a bit this past start in the 92-93 range so there's some hope it will get back to 94-95 where he had success last year. In their position Brewers can't/won't give him a long leash.

 

Wang's been very good lately with 12 K's in his last 5 appearances over 6 1/3 innings. If anyone in the pen starts to falter, he's definitely an option.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Keep an eye on Burnes. Not sure about his "stuff" but his stats are off the charts, so good so far.

[Roderick]

Personally, I think Hader is being underutilized. I'd send him back down and stretch him out for 3 starts and let Wang take his bullpen spot for the time being. Hader could be the difference maker but not pitching 2-3 innings per week.

 

I can see the argument that if it's not broken, don't fix it. But there's a lot of ifs. Can Suter keep this up? Will Guerra get his form back? Garza? How long will it take Anderson not just to get back but get back to the level he was at.

 

Can Suter keep this up? Channeling my inner Clancy, I sure hope he has shown CC/DS that he deserves a chance. He has had success at every level of the minors, has a 3.12 ERA, with 1.29 WHIP in 49 innings of mixed service in the majors. It seems to me that Suter keeps Anderson's slot until he comes back or proves he can't handle MLB.

 

Woodruff has been out long enough that he would have to make multiple starts down in the minors to show me has it back, and has the stamina.

 

At whatever point one of Woodruff / Anderson is back, then Guerra gets pushed out if he is still 2017 Guerra.

 

If Suter is doing well, then I have to think that Woodruff remains in the minors as the main guy to bring up if a starter goes down. Unless you are willing to tempt fate and replacing Davies, he of the lucky horseshoe of offensive support.

[MrTPlush]

Couple thoughts:

 

1. I highly disagree that Josh Hader is being underutilized. His BB/9 is almost 8. Good lord that is terrible and not anything you want to rely on. His stat line looks good due to only giving up a few hits, but that simply isn't sustainable. That is why they aren't using him a ton. I really want him to start limitti g the walks so he can start pitching bigger innings. It is a slow process so far.

 

2. Nick Ramirez is already stretched out in a sense. He consistently goes 2 or 3 innings when called upon. Not sure you need more than that. I don't know how much help as a bench bat he is going to be. Remember he doesn't have much upper minor experience with the bat so is he really going to hit well when he didn't hit well in the minors? Maybe you use him if you need to pull a starter soon, but that is about all I could see with him if you are trying to utilize his bat too.

[JohnBriggs12]

Personally, I think Hader is being underutilized. I'd send him back down and stretch him out for 3 starts and let Wang take his bullpen spot for the time being. Hader could be the difference maker but not pitching 2-3 innings per week.

 

I can see the argument that if it's not broken, don't fix it. But there's a lot of ifs. Can Suter keep this up? Will Guerra get his form back? Garza? How long will it take Anderson not just to get back but get back to the level he was at.

 

Can Suter keep this up? Channeling my inner Clancy, I sure hope he has shown CC/DS that he deserves a chance. He has had success at every level of the minors, has a 3.12 ERA, with 1.29 WHIP in 49 innings of mixed service in the majors. It seems to me that Suter keeps Anderson's slot until he comes back or proves he can't handle MLB.

 

Woodruff has been out long enough that he would have to make multiple starts down in the minors to show me has it back, and has the stamina.

 

At whatever point one of Woodruff / Anderson is back, then Guerra gets pushed out if he is still 2017 Guerra.

 

If Suter is doing well, then I have to think that Woodruff remains in the minors as the main guy to bring up if a starter goes down. Unless you are willing to tempt fate and replacing Davies, he of the lucky horseshoe of offensive support.

 

 

I think Davies is firmly established, not just on his 10 wins, but on his work in 2015 and 2016. Offensive support aside, he's been a winner ever since he's been a Brewer. Suter is the wild card. If he keeps pitching like Mark Buehrle then they could really have something. His fast pace keeps hitters off balance. I agree that Woodruff's 2017 opportunity came and he missed it at least for now. Time for him to crank it up in AAA and be ready if other's falter.

[adambr2]

Yeah, I love Hader but his FIP is off the charts because of all his walks.

 

He needs to at least get the walks down to 4 BB/9. I want to eventually see him get important innings but right now we have enough trouble with pen walks as it is.

[clancyphile]

Keep an eye on Burnes. Not sure about his "stuff" but if he's stats are off the charts good so far.

 

The sheer dominance at the levels remind me of Suter in 2015/2016. There's a very low ERA, very low WHIP. K/BB ratios also look very good.

 

That said.. it looks like Jon Perrin lost a good chunk of 2017 in the bullpen. What happened there??

[Humans Need Water]

When is Woodruff even coming back; it's been almost a month and I haven't heard any update on him.

 

When Anderson is back he steps into the rotation and it's back to the normal 5. Woodruff is there as well and has been great outside of CS. Wang, on the surface, has earned an opportunity. But maybe the Brewers aren't sold yet on his stuff playing up at this level. As a fan I'd at least like to see him given an opportunity though, especially when they've run Scahill and Lopez out there already. Burnes could be a pen arm at some point too.

 

Villar isn't scuffling at the moment. His last 5 games he's 8-21, 2bb, 3k. He's also altered his timing mechanism (leg kick) - it's a combo traditional leg kick (not as high as previously) and more Arcia-like where he doesn't lift rather just flicks it out there

[StearnsFTW]

Keep an eye on Burnes. Not sure about his "stuff" but if he's stats are off the charts good so far.

 

This is who I was going to bring up. I'm wondering if it would make some sense to bring him up and put him in the pen. Keeps his innings down and utilizes what appears to be a pretty solid talent.

[BrewersAA]

It's too bad on burnes because I would have to imagine he's just not going to be able to put on the innings this year to help the big club but he sure does look like a special talent. I think woodruff is an upgrade, and I don't think he will need extended time to "stretch" back out as I'm sure the throwing program takes care of thatwith his injury being lower body. Angel Ventura seems like he's invisible but he has been carving up the minors, seems to be permanently bumped to AAA, and though he's not striking out a ton of guys right now his run prevention is excellent and when he was in Appleton he was throwing 95-97, though I'm not sure what he's throwing now. And he needs to be added to the 40 man to be protected for next year so I would assume he's going to get a look at some point and whether in the rotation or the pen could provide an upgrade.

[RobDeer 45]

I'm pretty bad at keeping up with the minors and who's currently doing what. Great to get all this info on our options. Thanks! Makes me feel better about potentially going with what we have and trying to keep this thing going. Won't get in to the trade debate on this thread. Just wanted a place where we could talk about what the team could/should look like without trades being involved.

[adambr2]

Keep an eye on Burnes. Not sure about his "stuff" but if he's stats are off the charts good so far.

 

The sheer dominance at the levels remind me of Suter in 2015/2016. There's a very low ERA, very low WHIP. K/BB ratios also look very good.

 

That said.. it looks like Jon Perrin lost a good chunk of 2017 in the bullpen. What happened there??

 

I know Suter is your guy but I don't really see the parallels here. Burnes is mowing down over a batter an inning. Suter is much more of a pitch to contact guy.

 

This isn't a knock on Suter. No Brewer Milb pitcher has had this dominant of a season in a long time.

[jerichoholicninja]

I understand concern about Hader's walks but let's not get caught up in his high BB/9 after only 12 innings. And 12 sporadic innings. He's been up just under a month so he's throwing about 3 innings a week. Tough to stay sharp throwing so infrequently.

[Humans Need Water]

Couple thoughts:

 

1. I highly disagree that Josh Hader is being underutilized. His BB/9 is almost 8. Good lord that is terrible and not anything you want to rely on. His stat line looks good due to only giving up a few hits, but that simply isn't sustainable. That is why they aren't using him a ton. I really want him to start limitti g the walks so he can start pitching bigger innings. It is a slow process so far.

Or maybe it has to do with transitioning him to the pen and getting acclimated in that role at this level? He's been used every 4 days (like a rotation arm) and typically goes multiple innings. He's also typically pitched the 7th inning unless there was an unusual circumstance (rain delay, Chase injury). They clearly mapped out a schedule for him. Potentially until they feel he's transitioned to the point he can be used like a typical pen arm as there's still almost 3 months left in the season or maybe this is what it is all year. Either way, all the evidence suggests this being the reason for how he's been used, not his BB9 rate. This goes back to his final 2 starts in AAA where he went 2ip each start with standard 4 days off.

 

Hader's BB9 is 7.3....I don't stare at one number believing it tells the entire story; I pay attention to how they pitch to certain hitters in certain situations. When he walks a guy it tends to be when nobody is on base as opposed to putting runners in scoring position. He walked the first batter he faced in his MLB career at 23. Maybe he was nervous/excited? Acceptable walk. His other walk that inning was intentional to Goldschmidt. That's out of his control. Then he walked Carpenter in a tie game (2 doubles already that day plus had 5 hits the previous 2 games against us). Acceptable walk. Then he walked McCutchen (had 3 hits already that day and killed us all series). Acceptable walk. Then he walked Votto when we were down 1 (he also killed us the entire series). Acceptable walk. He's got 10 BB this year in his 12.1 innings and I just listed 5 of them, which puts the other 5 at a 3.65 BB9 rate. He pitched 3 innings last outing and walked the 2nd batter he faced and the 2nd final batter he faced (both happened to be Gardner). He threw 2.2 innings in between those walks. If a pitcher walks a batter every 2.2 innings that translates to a 3.37 BB9 rate. Including Gardner I just listed 7 of his 10 BB.

[And That]

When is Woodruff even coming back; it's been almost a month and I haven't heard any update on him.

The last I heard, maybe a week ago, was that the Brewers hope Woodruff can start throwing after the All-Star break and return before the end of July.

 

I'd look at Tristan Archer as a pen option this September, if not earlier. And I would be surprised if the Brewers don't give Ramirez a shot this season.

[yoshii8]

I'd like to see any of Burnes, Woodruff and Wang get a chance.

[RobDeer 45]

I also wouldn't put too much in to walks right now as a reliever. You tend to try to strike people out more when you are only in for an inning. As a starter you have to pitch to contact more often. I would look more at his history as a stater in the minors to get a feel for his K/BB numbers.

[Lathund]

I would want to have a look first at any players who we need to make a decision on whether to keep on or not. Thus players running out of minor league options, players reaching minor league free agency this offseason and other scenarios where we can't wait until next year. Not sure exactly how many players like this we have (Jungmann? Or does he have one more option year left?), but that's where I'd go first. I'm really excited about Burnes, but at this point I would rather have him focus on development over results; so work on that changeup as a starter in AA to hopefully develop a third strong pitch and make a decision in spring training about where he goes in 2018.

 

The one I'm most interested in seeing being given a chance though is Woodruff, and I expect he will be once he's back from injury.