Brewers prepared to buy, doing background work on Gray and Quintana

[Humans Need Water]

With Ray no longer considered a top 100 prospect by BA, he becomes a throw-in on trading for Quintana. Brinson, Ortiz, and Ray with a 4th is my guess as Hader is helping the team in the bullpen, and Woodruff is ready to help in the rotation. These 3 aren't helping this year's team so they are expendable.

Phillips dropped off their list after last year too. How's that working out?

[Lee16]

I go after Gray and Ryan Madsen, with an offer of:

 

Corey Ray

Isan Diaz

Marcos Diplan

Kodi Medieros

 

We will probably have to throw in another B or C type prospect, but I start with that.

[MrTPlush]

With Ray no longer considered a top 100 prospect by BA, he becomes a throw-in on trading for Quintana. Brinson, Ortiz, and Ray with a 4th is my guess as Hader is helping the team in the bullpen, and Woodruff is ready to help in the rotation. These 3 aren't helping this year's team so they are expendable.

Phillips dropped off their list after last year too. How's that working out?

 

Well he is having a good year and still not on it...so...

 

I'd be interested to know Brett Phillips general value. He has had a good bounce back campaign though it is in a Colorado environment. Would be one of the better prospects I would look to package for deadline help. Hader is up there too along with Diaz/Erceg. Not that I don't like them, but I find them more expendable.

 

Only concern with Hader is I believe he could be big help for the bullpen the rest of the year. Not a fan of addition by subtraction. I have seen Domingo Santana as a possibility and for the same reason I don't want to trade him.

[3and2Fastball]

Corey Ray was a late addition to the Futures Game, which surprised a little but showed he is still well regarded.

[LouisEly]

I go after Gray and Ryan Madsen, with an offer of:

 

Corey Ray

Isan Diaz

Marcos Diplan

Kodi Medieros

 

We will probably have to throw in another B or C type prospect, but I start with that.

I'm in alignment. I'd say either Diaz or Dubon. The last piece I'd throw in would be Cordell or, if they value him highly, Orimoloye, or both.

[Humans Need Water]

With Ray no longer considered a top 100 prospect by BA, he becomes a throw-in on trading for Quintana. Brinson, Ortiz, and Ray with a 4th is my guess as Hader is helping the team in the bullpen, and Woodruff is ready to help in the rotation. These 3 aren't helping this year's team so they are expendable.

Phillips dropped off their list after last year too. How's that working out?

 

Well he is having a good year and still not on it...so...

 

I'd be interested to know Brett Phillips general value. He has had a good bounce back campaign though it is in a Colorado environment. Would be one of the better prospects I would look to package for deadline help. Hader is up there too along with Diaz/Erceg. Not that I don't like them, but I find them more expendable.

 

Only concern with Hader is I believe he could be big help for the bullpen the rest of the year. Not a fan of addition by subtraction. I have seen Domingo Santana as a possibility and for the same reason I don't want to trade him.

Phillips is a Top 100 caliber player whether he's actually on a list or not. He was 57 on their list heading into last year so not sure how he doesn't bounce back on it after what he's done thus far. He just turned 23 and is hitting 270/323/809 on the road. He's been great every month except June, a month in which he was up and down having a stretch where he barely played but his numbers still weren't that bad. I get that the PCL is one of the best offensive environments in all of baseball including MLB but at what point do players get credit for performing? The greatest affects are pitches not breaking as hard/sharp and fly balls gaining like 5% in distance I think. Ground balls and line drives through the IF aren't affected. Line drives down the line or in the gap aren't hits solely because of CS. He's still a great defender with a hose too. This rant is just making a point; not attacking you in any way so I don't want you to potentially feel like that. I'd love to know what Phillips general value is. If I had to guess I'd say it's pretty favorable; that the majority see him as a future average to above average starting OF (his defense helps big time too).

 

I believe everyone in the system is expendable except Brinson. I don't see the Brewers parting with him. I think Hader gets every chance to start but there's still a chance he doesn't stick there long-term so he could be an option to be traded too but I agree with you that losing him in a trade to acquire a SP would be a blow to the pen no doubt and that's the area that needs the most attention. If Hader's going then he needs to target a couple relievers as well.

[Jenkins5]

Cheers to be one of the few who is hoping and praying DS doesn't pull the trigger and sticks to the plan. We aren't there yet. We are trending up due to great player evaluation, smart trades & waiver pick ups and absolutely great managing by Craig & staff. However, If any of you think Gray or Quintana push us over top to next level... I would disagree. They are not CC or Greinke who have that ability and are true Ace type pitchers. They are very good solid #2s or a Gallardo type of "Ace" and controllable. If this was 2019, go for it! Right now, we are just not there yet.

 

Moreover, teams can buy low on many of our top prospects. Diplan, Ray, Clark, Ercreg, and so forth. Hard to believe that none of their stock will never be higher in the future. All have high ceilings but are just struggling right now.

 

I like to keep reminding, before season we thought this was a 6-75 win team.... battling it out for last place with Reds for last place & fighting for top 5-10 pick. Our roster is no different except many are overachieving expectations right now. Will that all last? Is this roster really that much better today than it was April 1st? Sustainable? We are talking about trading our future right now which means many of you feel that same roster that no one really thought could win even 80 games is on the same level as the Nationals, Dodgers, Cubs.... I think soon we will be soon but need to stick to plan.

[brewcrewdue80]

With Ray no longer considered a top 100 prospect by BA, he becomes a throw-in on trading for Quintana. Brinson, Ortiz, and Ray with a 4th is my guess as Hader is helping the team in the bullpen, and Woodruff is ready to help in the rotation. These 3 aren't helping this year's team so they are expendable.

 

Ahh I see, I forgot all baseball officials follow Baseball America like sheep.

 

Sorry, in comment section someone asked no Ray, and BA replied thats in opinion of many scouts. I'd guess a few of these scouts get asked for other sites like MLB and Ray takes a dip there as well.

 

With Ray no longer considered a top 100 prospect by BA, he becomes a throw-in on trading for Quintana. Brinson, Ortiz, and Ray with a 4th is my guess as Hader is helping the team in the bullpen, and Woodruff is ready to help in the rotation. These 3 aren't helping this year's team so they are expendable.

 

I think you may have misunderstood every David Stearns’ quote/interview/memoir over the last 18 months…

 

And yet here are the rumors we're looking at SP to help. Show me in last 2weeks Stearns/MA saying nothing will be done on the buying side. Were sellers.

Maybe we can get by with Ray still at his value 1year ago. The White Sox dont read BA's rankings. If thats the case, lets get them to take Phillips, Lopez, Clark, Nottingham. For Q. Former top 100s. Add Ray as headliner.

[JohnBriggs12]

For a team to surrender a quality, controllable pitcher, they will demand a useful major league ready arm with a decent ceiling. A ball guys don't fit other than as a secondary piece. To get Gray and certainly Quintana will take either Woodruff or Hader as key piece. Only way one of those two isn't included is if Brinson is in the deal. I don't see that happening.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Fair enough then...

 

Brewers get:

RHP Sonny Gray

 

A's get:

OF Corey Ray

RHP Brandon Woodruff

OF Monte Harrison

 

Who says no?

 

Maybe add in RHP Taylor Jungmann in case that's who they really wanted in 2011 draft but WE stole him RIGHT FROM UNDER THEM.

[liveforoctober]

Well the background check on Gray should be fairly straightforward...

 

Stearns: "Mr. Vogt, yes or no?"

Vogt: *answers*

Stearns: "Cool."

[Humans Need Water]

The White Sox dont read BA's rankings. If thats the case, lets get them to take Phillips, Lopez, Clark, Nottingham. For Q. Former top 100s. Add Ray as headliner.

Do you actually believe that each team reads BA's rankings? Each team has their own scouting department and evaluators. That's who they consult with and listen to. They think it's cool when their players are on the Top 100 list and that's where it ends for them.

[Humans Need Water]

Fair enough then...

 

Brewers get:

RHP Sonny Gray

 

A's get:

OF Corey Ray

RHP Brandon Woodruff

OF Monte Harrison

 

Who says no?

 

Maybe add in RHP Taylor Jungmann in case that's who they really wanted in 2011 draft but WE stole him RIGHT FROM UNDER THEM.

I would absolutely say no if I'm Stearns. Woodruff can be better than Gray. Probably not 2014/2015 Gray but most certainly 2016/2017 Gray.

The issue here is you firmly believe Gray is better than Quintana when Quintana has consistently performed at a high level longer than Gray has. Then you add Ray on top of that? No way I'd do that

[MrTPlush]

My concern when they ask "many scouts" is who exactly they are asking? There are dozens upon dozens of scouts. Because while they talked to "many" that don't like him as much anymore all the time I see scouts glowing about Corey Ray. Ratings for prospects vary so greatly between each team it's hard to put a lot of stock in them when it comes to trades.

 

There didn't seem to be a wild goose chase for Travis Shaw after last year, but it only took the Brewers to believe in him.

[Austin Tatious]

Fair enough then...

 

Brewers get:

RHP Sonny Gray

 

A's get:

OF Corey Ray

RHP Brandon Woodruff

OF Monte Harrison

 

Who says no?

 

Maybe add in RHP Taylor Jungmann in case that's who they really wanted in 2011 draft but WE stole him RIGHT FROM UNDER THEM.

 

100% pass. I'd hang up the phone.

[NievesNoNO]

For a team that's had such a challenge developing pitching, I will not be happy if they trade Hader or Woodruff. You can probably add Ortiz and Burnes in there for me as well.

[Austin Tatious]

I'd take Quintana but would not bet the farm on Gray.

 

A: Guys who I would not trade in any package: Woodruff, Hader, Burnes, Ortiz, Brinson, Harrison, Gatewood, Dubon, Erceg, Diaz (Hiura and Lutz not eligible yet), Feliciano, Taylor Williams, Bickford, Kirby, Supak

 

B: good movable parts: Clark, Ray, Medeiros, Cordell, Phillips, Lara, Nottingham, Ponce, Peralta, Coulter, Orimoloye, Diplan

 

There's enough good prospects in group B to make deals. If someone insists on someone in group A, counter with B guys or walk away.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I'd take Quintana but would not bet the farm on Gray.

 

A: Guys who I would not trade in any package: Woodruff, Hader, Burnes, Ortiz, Brinson, Harrison, Gatewood, Dubon, Erceg, Diaz (Hiura and Lutz not eligible yet), Feliciano, Taylor Williams

 

B: movable parts: Clark, Ray, Medeiros, Cordell, Bickford, Phillips, Lara, Nottingham, Ponce, Peralta, Coulter

 

There's enough good prospects in group B to make deals. If someone inists on group A, counter with B guys or walk away.

 

So basically any prospect that has their stock down you'd be willing to trade only?

 

I understand that certain prospects are our favorites but I think Stearns will need to be a little more open minded if we plan on adding a significant piece.

 

If not, it's Jhoulys Chacin or BUST!

[Humans Need Water]

I'd take Quintana but would not bet the farm on Gray.

 

A: Guys who I would not trade in any package: Woodruff, Hader, Burnes, Ortiz, Brinson, Harrison, Gatewood, Dubon, Erceg, Diaz (Hiura and Lutz not eligible yet), Feliciano, Taylor Williams

 

B: movable parts: Clark, Ray, Medeiros, Cordell, Bickford, Phillips, Lara, Nottingham, Ponce, Peralta, Coulter

 

There's enough good prospects in group B to make deals. If someone inists on group A, counter with B guys or walk away.

 

So basically any prospect that has their stock down you'd be willing to trade only?

 

I understand that certain prospects are our favorites but I think Stearns will need to be a little more open minded if we plan on adding a significant piece.

 

If not, it's Jhoulys Chacin or BUST!

Cordell, Phillips, Nottingham, Ponce, Peralta, Coulter all have their stock up from last year. Bickford is neutral

[brewcrewdue80]

The White Sox dont read BA's rankings. If thats the case, lets get them to take Phillips, Lopez, Clark, Nottingham. For Q. Former top 100s. Add Ray as headliner.

Do you actually believe that each team reads BA's rankings? Each team has their own scouting department and evaluators. That's who they consult with and listen to. They think it's cool when their players are on the Top 100 list and that's where it ends for them.

 

So what youre indicating is they read the lists....

 

If Im with the White Sox trading Q and want Ray, isnt arguing how he's no longer in top 100 on this list a win for my side by devaluing Ray since others have devalued him?

Stearn: we'll offer Ray, Ortiz, and Clark for Q.

White Sox: Ray doesnt suit our headline to trade Q and Luis Ortiz isnt a big enough headliner. 1 top 100 prospect isnt getting this deal done. Sorry youve drafted bad OFs the last 2 1st picks. They arent 1st round talents.

[Humans Need Water]

The White Sox dont read BA's rankings. If thats the case, lets get them to take Phillips, Lopez, Clark, Nottingham. For Q. Former top 100s. Add Ray as headliner.

Do you actually believe that each team reads BA's rankings? Each team has their own scouting department and evaluators. That's who they consult with and listen to. They think it's cool when their players are on the Top 100 list and that's where it ends for them.

 

So what youre indicating is they read the lists....

 

If Im with the White Sox trading Q and want Ray, isnt arguing how he's no longer in top 100 on this list a win for my side by devaluing Ray since others have devalued him?

Stearn: we'll offer Ray, Ortiz, and Clark for Q.

White Sox: Ray doesnt suit our headline to trade Q and Luis Ortiz isnt a big enough headliner. 1 top 100 prospect isnt getting this deal done. Sorry youve drafted bad OFs the last 2 1st picks. They arent 1st round talents.

No, I'm not indicating that. I was clear in what I said. Anyone can "read" that list if they aren't blind. That doesn't mean they take it as the Gold Standard and reference it when making trades. It's great for marketing their org and system and nothing more. A player on the Top 100 list could very well not be rated that highly by another team's scouting department. BA, BP, MLB.com aren't surveying EVERY scout when comprising their lists.

 

"Sorry you've drafted bad OFs the last 2 1st picks". I didn't draft dick!! Sorry you (I'm literally speaking about you now) can't see real talent and, instead, do what everybody on this planet is capable of doing - burying their in the sand looking at numbers on a website believing that's reality for every player. It's fun listening to you bash 21/22 year olds in A+ as if their careers are already cemented for them

[Austin Tatious]

I'd take Quintana but would not bet the farm on Gray.

 

A: Guys who I would not trade in any package: Woodruff, Hader, Burnes, Ortiz, Brinson, Harrison, Gatewood, Dubon, Erceg, Diaz (Hiura and Lutz not eligible yet), Feliciano, Taylor Williams

 

B: movable parts: Clark, Ray, Medeiros, Cordell, Bickford, Phillips, Lara, Nottingham, Ponce, Peralta, Coulter

 

There's enough good prospects in group B to make deals. If someone inists on group A, counter with B guys or walk away.

 

So basically any prospect that has their stock down you'd be willing to trade only?

 

I understand that certain prospects are our favorites but I think Stearns will need to be a little more open minded if we plan on adding a significant piece.

 

If not, it's Jhoulys Chacin or BUST!

 

My list A versus B wasn't good versus bad. I'd argue that a number of the guys I have on my movable list have value.

 

It's like when we traded off our veterans the past couple of years. Some teams had guys on their no touch list for whatever reason. There are a number of guys on B who I would like to see develop and they have value but you need to give something up.

 

Take Dubon as an example. I like him but even more than that, for positional reasons, I'd prefer to keep him. If Arcia or our 2b or 3b got hurt, I like him. Ponce, Diplan, and Peralta are nice prospects but I need to be able to give up something from the pitching ranks. Ray was a top 5 pick. Clark was taken fifteenth. Medeiros was taken twelfth. They should have value.

 

Conversely, Kirby has been hurt. Bickford has an arrow down due to his lack of judgement and now injury but I kept him. There may be pitchers in group two better than these two guys. Kirby was a guy I liked coming out of the draft, as were Harrison and Gatewood.

 

Overall, I made my picks based on what I see coming up and how I'd like to see it fit together, keeping in mind who else we have. We are also informed by what other teams offered us while we were dealing guys off. They didn't just hand out anybody we asked for. You have to respect who is off the table, and I'd put my Group A off the table.

 

But then again, I'm not dying to make a marquee trade. Acquire a reliever for group 2 folks, possibly enticing. Negotiation 101. Bargain from a position of strength, don't be desperate, and be willing to walk away. We have the ability to take all of those positions. Whatever we do, I hope it's with an eye toward controllable talent with upside. Stearns has been great and I'd be shocked if he messed up.

[brewcrewdue80]

That last part wasnt directed at you, it was a mock of Steaens talking to the White Sox whoever their GM is (I dont know) and that GMs response to Stearns.

my opinion that I dug through with either video or numbers yes, is slang for Dick. :p

[Humans Need Water]

That last part wasnt directed at you, it was a mock of Steaens talking to the White Sox whoever their GM is (I dont know) and that GMs response to Stearns.

my opinion that I dug through with either video or numbers yes, is slang for Dick. :p

I hear ya lol

[3and2Fastball]

The advantage of Gray & Quintana is they help you now and in 2018 & 2019. They are known commodities and if healthy, you can make a reasonable projection as to their MLB stats from 2017-2019. Quintana you could even pick up a team option and have him in 2020, too. With prospects you never know. Woodruff could be Gallardo, he could be Jungmann