Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...

[A Swing and A Drive]

According to Baseball America's Top 100 Midseason prospect list,

 

Eloy Jimenez is the 5th best prospect in baseball.

 

Corey Ray is not in the Top 100.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2017-midseason-top-100-prospects-july-7/#eXK1te6qcQ2eVrzk.97

 

That's a HUGE difference in value as a headlining prospect in a deal.

 

Also the reason why Jose Quintana is a Cub and not a Brewer.

[3and2Fastball]

you guys realize that Eloy Jimenez & Corey Ray play in the same league, right? The Carolina League A+ ball

 

Jimenez at age 20 .300/.378/.545

Ray at age 22 .235/.310/.370

 

They are not even close as prospects. Jimenez at age 19 in A Ball last year hit .329/.369/.532 in over 400 At-Bats

[PaulLeoMolitor]

I'm guessing GM's pay very little attention to prospect rankings. I've seen Jorge Soler mentioned as a Jimenez comp. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. True, he's not Soler, and he could end up being far better, but my point is you saying "no way" the Brewers could have offered a trade surrounding Ray and Ortiz is ridiculous. Ray could easily end up being better than Jimenez, but of course it all depends on how the White Sox front office views each player (not on BA's rankings or anyone else's). If Stearns offered a couple of better 3rd and 4th pieces than the Cubs, it could have certainly swung the trade the Brewers' way. Either way it's all conjecture, but I hardly think they are any absolutes unless you have firsthand knowledge.

[NievesNoNO]

you guys realize that Eloy Jimenez & Corey Ray play in the same league, right? The Carolina League A+ ball

 

Jimenez at age 20 .300/.378/.545

Ray at age 22 .235/.310/.370

 

They are not even close as prospects. Jimenez at age 19 in A Ball last year hit .329/.369/.532 in over 400 At-Bats

 

That's a significant difference. No matter what my eyes might tell me as a GM or scout. Ray's performance thus far has been concerning. Especially for somebody who was considered an advanced college bat. I would personally not take him as a headliner of a significant deal.

[PaulLeoMolitor]

I agree. There's no disputing Jimenez is a better prospect than Ray at this point. I'm glad the Cubs traded him, but I think the Brewers could have put together just as appealing of a package, even with Ray as the centerpiece. Even still, the White Sox may have elected to go with Jimenez, but I think we could have pushed the envelope even without Brinson.

[MrTPlush]

The difference doesn't matter. Why is everyone getting so hung up on that? The Brewers were closing in on a deal before the Cubs got seriously involved. The Cubs came in at the end and BLEW everyone away according to Hahn(White Sox GM). At that point the Brewers and Braves(?) balked and let the Cubs have him. The Brewers were putting together a worthy deal until a team came in last minute to overpay(essentially).

 

Corey Ray is nowhere remotely close to Jimenez in the eyes of everyone including the White Sox who basically confirmed it.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I'm quite happy that Stearns DIDN'T offer Brinson in an offer for Quintana and did not want him to.

 

I'm also to happy to learn that he did "try" to put a competitive package for him together based off lesser prospects. His offer just got beat out, which I think was expected.

 

If you look at the first post of this thread, I stated that Quintana would cost more than Gray for obvious reasons, but thought that the Brewers had the depth to put together a package for Sonny Gray instead.

 

For those Brewer fans that think Sonny Gray is a #3 starter/injury prone midget, I can see why this is not something you'd want the Brewers to do.

 

I personally, think Sonny Gray will become a better SP than Quintana is right now and would love for the Brewers to add him.

 

Since he's controlled for a full season less than Quintana, he should be cheaper anyway you slice it.

 

Very soon, we shall see...

[brewmann04]

I would move any one besides Brinson and the potential 4 top Pitching prospects

[A Swing and A Drive]

I would move any one besides Brinson and the potential 4 top Pitching prospects

 

That would be ideal.

 

I assume you mean Hader, Woodruff, Ortiz and Burnes?

 

It could happen, but my guess is that it could take either Woodruff, Ortiz or Burnes if Brinson is not in it.

 

Question:

How would you rank those three on order of preference on keeping out of any deal?

 

Personally, I'd say

1. Corbin Burnes

2. Brandon Woodruff

3. Luis Ortiz

 

Burnes is a dealbreaker for me, personally. I think he's going to be a sneaky good major leaguer in the mold of a Tim Hudson.

 

Woodruff and Ortiz is a toss-up for me, but I prefer keeping Woodruff because he's closer to the Majors and I'm not as worried about his future conditioning.

 

How would you rank them?

[MrTPlush]

Personally I would be more inclined to trade Brandon Woodruff. Lower ceiling so I would rather keep the higher ceiling Ortiz. It is a bonus Woodruff probably adds more to a trade hopefully letting us keep an additional player out of the trade. More risk with Ortiz, but I will roll the dice on him.

[brewcrewdue80]

I would move any one besides Brinson and the potential 4 top Pitching prospects

 

That would be ideal.

 

I assume you mean Hader, Woodruff, Ortiz and Burnes?

 

It could happen, but my guess is that it could take either Woodruff, Ortiz or Burnes if Brinson is not in it.

 

Question:

How would you rank those three on order of preference on keeping out of any deal?

 

Personally, I'd say

1. Corbin Burnes

2. Brandon Woodruff

3. Luis Ortiz

 

Burnes is a dealbreaker for me, personally. I think he's going to be a sneaky good major leaguer in the mold of a Tim Hudson.

 

Woodruff and Ortiz is a toss-up for me, but I prefer keeping Woodruff because he's closer to the Majors and I'm not as worried about his future conditioning.

 

How would you rank them?

 

1A, 1B, 1C, 1D. untouchable. Let's think Mets with the forthcoming pitching prospects. Woodruff our Harvey, Burnes our Syndergaard, Hader are Matz, and Ortiz our Degrom. Only we have a lot better hitters to back that than NY ever did. And they made it to the WS. Maybe Freddy Peralta or Marcos Diplan can be our Zach Wheeler. Every one of our guys comes with more team control than Gray. If we hadn't had such a weak division nor, our own winning record, the rebuild would be working perfectly, having Hader/Woodruff play this season, Burnes/Ortiz at some point next season. Moving multiples of these guys for a less team controlled player will hurt this franchise's future where it stands.

[MrTPlush]

Our pitching prospects can't touch any one of those guys with a 10ft. pole

[Brewcrewin07]

I would move any one besides Brinson and the potential 4 top Pitching prospects

 

That would be ideal.

 

I assume you mean Hader, Woodruff, Ortiz and Burnes?

 

It could happen, but my guess is that it could take either Woodruff, Ortiz or Burnes if Brinson is not in it.

 

Question:

How would you rank those three on order of preference on keeping out of any deal?

 

Personally, I'd say

1. Corbin Burnes

2. Brandon Woodruff

3. Luis Ortiz

 

Burnes is a dealbreaker for me, personally. I think he's going to be a sneaky good major leaguer in the mold of a Tim Hudson.

 

Woodruff and Ortiz is a toss-up for me, but I prefer keeping Woodruff because he's closer to the Majors and I'm not as worried about his future conditioning.

 

How would you rank them?

 

1A, 1B, 1C, 1D. untouchable. Let's think Mets with the forthcoming pitching prospects. Woodruff our Harvey, Burnes our Syndergaard, Hader are Matz, and Ortiz our Degrom. Only we have a lot better hitters to back that than NY ever did. And they made it to the WS. Maybe Freddy Peralta or Marcos Diplan can be our Zach Wheeler. Every one of our guys comes with more team control than Gray. If we hadn't had such a weak division nor, our own winning record, the rebuild would be working perfectly, having Hader/Woodruff play this season, Burnes/Ortiz at some point next season. Moving multiples of these guys for a less team controlled player will hurt this franchise's future where it stands.

 

The thing I don't get is all the giddyness by everyone about the Brewers prospects and rthe rebuild..well, I would simply ask anyone that feels that way then..what if the rebuild doesn't work?? Then what?? No one seems to think of that..The way most talk around here, it's like they are 100% certain it will. So now, the Brewers didn't trade any of their "top prospects" when they had a chance to improve, when they ARE actually in a pennant race, and then these prospects don't help the Brewers rebuild much. Then everyone will look back and think "maybe we should have gone for it in 2017 when we had the chance". Then it's too late. You ALWAYS deal in the known vs the unknown. The known is..as of this moment you ARE in a pennant race...the unknown is IF you will have that chance again in say the next 5 years or not.

[brewcrewdue80]

That would be ideal.

 

I assume you mean Hader, Woodruff, Ortiz and Burnes?

 

It could happen, but my guess is that it could take either Woodruff, Ortiz or Burnes if Brinson is not in it.

 

Question:

How would you rank those three on order of preference on keeping out of any deal?

 

Personally, I'd say

1. Corbin Burnes

2. Brandon Woodruff

3. Luis Ortiz

 

Burnes is a dealbreaker for me, personally. I think he's going to be a sneaky good major leaguer in the mold of a Tim Hudson.

 

Woodruff and Ortiz is a toss-up for me, but I prefer keeping Woodruff because he's closer to the Majors and I'm not as worried about his future conditioning.

 

How would you rank them?

 

1A, 1B, 1C, 1D. untouchable. Let's think Mets with the forthcoming pitching prospects. Woodruff our Harvey, Burnes our Syndergaard, Hader are Matz, and Ortiz our Degrom. Only we have a lot better hitters to back that than NY ever did. And they made it to the WS. Maybe Freddy Peralta or Marcos Diplan can be our Zach Wheeler. Every one of our guys comes with more team control than Gray. If we hadn't had such a weak division nor, our own winning record, the rebuild would be working perfectly, having Hader/Woodruff play this season, Burnes/Ortiz at some point next season. Moving multiples of these guys for a less team controlled player will hurt this franchise's future where it stands.

 

The thing I don't get is all the giddyness by everyone about the Brewers prospects and rthe rebuild..well, I would simply ask anyone that feels that way then..what if the rebuild doesn't work?? Then what?? No one seems to think of that..The way most talk around here, it's like they are 100% certain it will. So now, the Brewers didn't trade any of their "top prospects" when they had a chance to improve, when they ARE actually in a pennant race, and then these prospects don't help the Brewers rebuild much. Then everyone will look back and think "maybe we should have gone for it in 2017 when we had the chance". Then it's too late. You ALWAYS deal in the known vs the unknown. The known is..as of this moment you ARE in a pennant race...the unknown is IF you will have that chance again in say the next 5 years or not.

 

Nope. See Cubs for example. The Mets. The Royals. If our top prospects don't pan out, so what? We've clearly already identified serious trade pieces if we aren't improving in 2-3years. There is clearly talent in the system, far more than I've ever known in the system....That includes pitching in it. The draft and international rules are now in a small-markets favor unlike ever before. We can't compete in FA typically, but we now can compete in both drafts.

 

What if we trade away 5 of our top 10 prospects for 2 good MLB players. We don't make the playoffs, and the other 5 of our top 10 prospects never play above 1WAR at the ML level? Now we have squat to play with for another 5-7years because we shot our wad too early. Think the Cubs. Say they go on to win the division...like a WS defending team should but they don't go on to the WS. How good does their team look for 2018? I'm all for deals if they are including guys who are blocked or behind a lot of other prospect talents at the same position. But to make a splash on guys in our top 10 to get rentals or short term, is so Grienke/Marcum.

 

Our biggest problem this year has been the bullpen and we've barely used guys in our own system. We nabbed guys like Hughes/Drake/Scahill from waivers. Torres. Feliz. Marinez. These guys picked up off the scrap heap for cheap. Meanwhile, you have guys like Lopez, Jungmann, Taylor Williams, Wilkerson, Tristan Archer, Bubba Derby, WCWang, and maybe Corbin Burnes even to call up for that bullpen to try out and help. When it comes to our bats, overall on the season they are all doing as well or better than expected(minus Villar) at every position. And there is improvements to be had there now with Brinson getting his call up. 2b a concern? Dubon, Diaz, and now Hiura who's taking the correct best college hitter approach unlike the mistake that was Ray and in A ball hitting well.

 

We've accomplished this with just 1+ of our top prospects being called up. Hader/Brinson/Phillips getting a glimpse to this point. Mlb's current list has 16 of our prospects an overall 50.

Cubs at 9....post rebuild

Reds at 15...been rebuilding for years

Pirates at 11...post rebuild

Cardinals at 12...MLB's darling small market who gets the same benefits as Milw even though they not playing at the small market level Milw and others are.

 

Let the pipeline pump out some help on their own, vs finding a rental who may not help improve the situation and bring us back in the future prospects to the rest of the division.

[paul253]

Yeah I think some of us are seriously overrating our pitching prospects. I'm sorry but Brandon Woodruff should not be considered untouchable.

[brewcrewdue80]

Yeah I think some of us are seriously overrating our pitching prospects. I'm sorry but Brandon Woodruff should not be considered untouchable.

 

So you think 158IP in 28Starts of 2.68ERA with 173Ks to 40BBs .209BAA is over-rating?

 

He has similar numbers this season in Colorado aside from HRs given up and a couple extra walks vs last year's avg.

His numbers are better than Nelson's in the minors at the same stage...by a little margin. He carrys a 6'4" frame. He's already at the stage where he can go 180IP in his progression. Something Hader is not at.

 

I think he possesses the chance to come on the Rotation and give a 7-2 type boost stretch to the team. It really is sad he became hurt on his ML debut day before he got to start.

[brewmann04]

I would move any one besides Brinson and the potential 4 top Pitching prospects

 

That would be ideal.

 

I assume you mean Hader, Woodruff, Ortiz and Burnes?

 

It could happen, but my guess is that it could take either Woodruff, Ortiz or Burnes if Brinson is not in it.

 

Question:

How would you rank those three on order of preference on keeping out of any deal?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, I'd say

1. Corbin Burnes

2. Brandon Woodruff

3. Luis Ortiz

 

Burnes is a dealbreaker for me, personally. I think he's going to be a sneaky good major leaguer in the mold of a Tim Hudson.

 

Woodruff and Ortiz is a toss-up for me, but I prefer keeping Woodruff because he's closer to the Majors and I'm not as worried about his future conditioning.

 

How would you rank them?

 

1A, 1B, 1C, 1D. untouchable. Let's think Mets with the forthcoming pitching prospects. Woodruff our Harvey, Burnes our Syndergaard, Hader are Matz, and Ortiz our Degrom. Only we have a lot better hitters to back that than NY ever did. And they made it to the WS. Maybe Freddy Peralta or Marcos Diplan can be our Zach Wheeler. Every one of our guys comes with more team control than Gray. If we hadn't had such a weak division nor, our own winning record, the rebuild would be working perfectly, having Hader/Woodruff play this season, Burnes/Ortiz at some point next season. Moving multiples of these guys for a less team controlled player will hurt this franchise's future where it stands.

 

 

my 4th will be Freddie Peralta instead of Ortiz

[A Swing and A Drive]

The talent of the forementioned Mets pitchers blows our Top 4 pitching prospects completely out of the water.

 

If Stearns offered all 4 pitchers for Noah Syndergaard alone, the offer would get rejected in a heartbeat.

 

Brandon Woodruff untouchable? I'm sorry if this was posted by Brandon's Mom, but no.

 

Comparing Ortiz to Jacob deGrom?

 

There is wishful thinking then there's this.

 

However, as a fellow Brewer fan, I sure hope you are right.

[KeithStone53151]

The talent of the forementioned Mets pitchers blows our Top 4 pitching prospects completely out of the water.

 

If Stearns offered all 4 pitchers for Noah Syndergaard alone, the offer would get rejected in a heartbeat.

 

Brandon Woodruff untouchable? I'm sorry if this was posted by Brandon's Mom, but no.

 

Comparing Ortiz to Jacob deGrom?

 

There is wishful thinking then there's this.

 

However, as a fellow Brewer fan, I sure hope you are right.

 

It certainly doesn't happen often, but this time I agree with you. Hader has the upside to be in a conversation with those guys. Ortiz best case scenario might get close to them. The other 2 project solidly to mid rotation guys while harvey/matz are front lime at their best and degrom/syndergaard are top 15 in the league hands down. That isn't an argument to throw them away for gray, just my thoughts on those guys.

[A Swing and A Drive]

To be fair, I should have pointed out that I do also agree with the Hader/Matz talent comparison.

[paul253]

So you think 158IP in 28Starts of 2.68ERA with 173Ks to 40BBs .209BAA is over-rating?

 

Overrating in the sense that some people are calling him "untouchable" Think about what that means. That means you wouldn't trade him for anyone. Yes he's putting up good numbers in AAA. So did Ben Hendrickson. So did Manny Parra. So did Dana Eveland. So did a host of other prospects. Maybe he'll turn out to be a great #1-#2 type pitcher. But the chances of that happening are slim. So to call him "untouchable". Yes I do think is overrating him.

[Brewer Fever]

The talent of the forementioned Mets pitchers blows our Top 4 pitching prospects completely out of the water.

 

If Stearns offered all 4 pitchers for Noah Syndergaard alone, the offer would get rejected in a heartbeat.

 

That's absurd. What is this? Is this "National Try and Say Something More Ridiculous than the Previous Person Day"?

[Brewer Fever]

Also in case anybody hasn't been paying attention, the Mets fearsome foursome has been a pretty big letdown compared to the hype. This is the last place I'd expect the hype to be sold

[MrTPlush]

The talent of the forementioned Mets pitchers blows our Top 4 pitching prospects completely out of the water.

 

If Stearns offered all 4 pitchers for Noah Syndergaard alone, the offer would get rejected in a heartbeat.

 

That's absurd. What is this? Is this "National Try and Say Something More Ridiculous than the Previous Person Day"?

 

Why? He is totally right. Very right actually.

[Eye Black]

Just a hunch, but with Sonny Gray scheduled to start Sunday I think there is a good chance he gets traded in the next 30 hours. It seems like at this point if a team is going to trade for him they would be better off getting that extra start from him. If they wait until Monday to make the deal it would push back his first start for the new team to next Friday or Saturday. If a team acquires him before tomorrow's start he is likely to make 11 regular season starts for them, if they wait until Monday it will most likely be 10.