Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...

[3and2Fastball]

Small sample but after watching Brinson swing the bat the last 2 games I'm starting to see what the hype is about. I wouldn't trade him unless we're getting Fulmer

[OnaBadger58]

Still amazes me people still can't wrap their mind around the concept Sonny Gray doesn't have to be a win now move for this year. He and just about every other player we are connected to is controllable even past next year.

Do you think the Brewers are contenders next year? I'm not trading assets right now for a player that may make a playoff impact for one year of his contract. Gray's price is high because of his talent and control. The Brewers will pay extra for a year in which they probably won't be contending. That's why I'm not wrapping my head around Gray.

 

Who knows? Lots of money and prospects to make a lot of changes for next year. Also a lot of pitchers will be at AAA and Dubon should be ready to help out. If we are on the verge of competing now why can't we next year?

 

Simply put, yes, I think the Brewers field an even better team after many additions before next season to be competitive.

And they certainly could. You said it exactly right, who knows? I would like to see what Nelson, Anderson, Hader (maybe), Woodruff, and Burnes (maybe) can do next year before I look for external help. Once we have a better understanding, then we can go from there. I think that is a better senario than having Gray for next year only to see Nelson and Anderson decline and Hader is a bullpen piece. IMO, there are still too many unknowns to warrant a big trade for only 2 years of team control.

[paul253]

Yeah because Sonny Gray is going to change any of that

 

He'll give us a better chance than Michael Blazek will.

 

Look as terrible as we've been playing post all star break were all of one and a half games out of first place if the Cubs win tonight. The road trip trip is over. We can regroup and get our heads together. I realize Gray is an afterthought right now but like Mr T Plush says he can help more than this year. I personally dont see any chance Hader is in the rotation next year (or ever for that matter). So we have Burnes (who is not MLB ready and probably won't be until the end of next year at the earliest) and Woodruff, who might be a nice back of the rotation starter. By all means give them a chance when they are ready. But why do we have to wait on trying to win until we see how they handle being in the major league rotation? I can't imagine Anderson and Nelson are now all of a sudden sub 3 ERA pitchers. So rather than hope for a miracle with Anderson and Nelson continuing to be lights out and Woodruff and Burnes and Hader all coming into the rotation and instantly becoming quality starters why not go out an actually get an established (yes he's established) quality (yes he's quality) starter and take the pressure off all those other guys? Then we won't have to rely on the Michael Blazeks of the organization when we are still chasing a division title?

 

Next year you'd have a rotation of Gray, Nelson, and Anderson with Garza, Davies and Woodruff as possibilities to round it out. That, along with a solid albeit inconsistent offense and a hopefully rebuilt bullpen can keep us in the wildcard hunt while we wait on the other prospects to see if they pan out.

 

But yeah, the "oh we aren't as good as the Cubs are now so we shouldn't trade for Gray" argument makes no sense to me. To me, trading for a guy with the talent and the contract of Gray makes all the sense in the world.

 

Having said that, Im not delusional. I know it's not happening.

[Brewcrewin07]

If the small market D rays are "going for it", why the hell shouldn't the small market Brewers. Opportunities to make the playoffs(and once there ANYTHING can happen), don't come around very often for small market clubs typically, so why not capitalize on the opportunities you do have?? If it doesn't work, it doesn't work..it's no different then banking on prospects to get you to the promised land. I'd say there is even less of a chance of that working, and even if it does..when??

 

Highly doubtful Stearns will make any other moves..but he should, and I know Mark A would like him to. Flukey season or not, they are still in this, why not do what you can(at a reasonable cost) to bring in as much/many improvements as you can for this year, and still have those players in future years as well.

[bigred]

Yeah because Sonny Gray is going to change any of that

 

He'll give us a better chance than Michael Blazek will.

 

Look as terrible as we've been playing post all star break were all of one and a half games out of first place if the Cubs win tonight. The road trip trip is over. We can regroup and get our heads together. I realize Gray is an afterthought right now but like Mr T Plush says he can help more than this year. I personally dont see any chance Hader is in the rotation next year (or ever for that matter). So we have Burnes (who is not MLB ready and probably won't be until the end of next year at the earliest) and Woodruff, who might be a nice back of the rotation starter. By all means give them a chance when they are ready. But why do we have to wait on trying to win until we see how they handle being in the major league rotation? I can't imagine Anderson and Nelson are now all of a sudden sub 3 ERA pitchers. So rather than hope for a miracle with Anderson and Nelson continuing to be lights out and Woodruff and Burnes and Hader all coming into the rotation and instantly becoming quality starters why not go out an actually get an established (yes he's established) quality (yes he's quality) starter and take the pressure off all those other guys? Then we won't have to rely on the Michael Blazeks of the organization when we are still chasing a division title?

 

Next year you'd have a rotation of Gray, Nelson, and Anderson with Garza, Davies and Woodruff as possibilities to round it out. That, along with a solid albeit inconsistent offense and a hopefully rebuilt bullpen can keep us in the wildcard hunt while we wait on the other prospects to see if they pan out.

 

But yeah, the "oh we aren't as good as the Cubs are now so we shouldn't trade for Gray" argument makes no sense to me. To me, trading for a guy with the talent and the contract of Gray makes all the sense in the world.

 

Having said that, Im not delusional. I know it's not happening.

 

 

 

Be honest now paul253. Was your comment " I know it's not happening " just reverse psychology tactic for you because you actually want DS to trade for Gray? So you aren't as disappointed if we don't get Gray?

[brewcrewdue80]

I just want to wait til the offseason to make trades for this Pitcher we seek. I think guys like Fulmer could be made available then, as well as getting more preview of the Brewer prospects. Is it Phillips or Brinson you want as CF/4th OF? Is Woodruff potential performance a 4 or 5, or a 2/3? Burnes...a Sept callup? You see how they perform and decide what you want to roll with in 2018.

 

Baseball these days especially in the playoffs, have been dominated with 9out bullpen shut downs. This team is far from that...though if CC would use Hader more often, I'd think we'd be approaching a 6-8out tandem with Kneble.

 

Honestly, the team's performance this year is setting back the rebuild, as a 6under .500 team and selling would likely have made one final nice haul with trading Nelson and Anderson, Villar and Broxton. Woodruff and Hader would get their spots and you now have something to piece together for 2018 season.

 

You can find someone for next season and all the young guys will have another 60games or so more experience. We obviously have a deep team, but we need the Pitching to catch up more than adding Gray will provide.

[paul253]

If you've followed the thread then you know I want Gray. So yes absolutely I want Stearns to trade for him, assuming we don't have to give up Brinson.

 

Will I be disappointed if we don't get him? In the same way that I'm disappointed when I don't win the lottery. I want it but I'm not really thinking much of it because I know it ain't happening.

[paul253]

as a 6under .500 team and selling would likely have made one final nice haul with trading Nelson and Anderson, Villar and Broxton

 

Broxton and Villar have absolutely zero value. If Anderson and Nelson were pitching as they are now and we were still in full sell mode then maybe we could get a decent prospect for them but certainly not an organizational changing type player. Probably the only person with any decent value we have is Knebel but this years relief market is nothing like last years. I'd guess if we were in full sell mode we'd walk away with one or two prospects who are in our 15-20 range and two more in our 20-30 range.

 

And normally I root for draft position but I've been so disappointed with our recent first round picks I don't even care about that anymore.

[bigred]

If you've followed the thread then you know I want Gray. So yes absolutely I want Stearns to trade for him, assuming we don't have to give up Brinson.

 

Will I be disappointed if we don't get him? In the same way that I'm disappointed when I don't win the lottery. I want it but I'm not really thinking much of it because I know it ain't happening.

 

I understand you. Feel the same way. Was just trying to add a little humor

[MrTPlush]

Jonathan Villar has value. Quite a bit I would guess. More than people think. He had a phenomenal year last year start to finish. If Segura can hold a bunch of value for years when he was good only a few month pretty sure Villar can do the same.

[JosephC]

If the small market D rays are "going for it", why the hell shouldn't the small market Brewers. Opportunities to make the playoffs(and once there ANYTHING can happen), don't come around very often for small market clubs typically, so why not capitalize on the opportunities you do have?? If it doesn't work, it doesn't work..it's no different then banking on prospects to get you to the promised land. I'd say there is even less of a chance of that working, and even if it does..when??

 

Highly doubtful Stearns will make any other moves..but he should, and I know Mark A would like him to. Flukey season or not, they are still in this, why not do what you can(at a reasonable cost) to bring in as much/many improvements as you can for this year, and still have those players in future years as well.

 

You can't be serious. So far the Rays have traded away one "top 10 organizational prospect" in Gillaspie (10.7 million), one "fringe player prospect" in Smith (2.14 million) and bought Romo for what is probably the equivalent of a 6-pack of beer. Roughly 12.84 million in prospect surplus value. The Brewers have traded away one "role player prospect" in Cordell (5.35 million) and one "fringe player prospect" in Garrett Cooper (2.14 million). Roughly 7.49 million in surplus value. To say one team is "going for it" since they have traded away an additional 5.35 million in surplus value is pretty questionable. I guess if Stearns swings that big deal tonight and trades Cody Ponce for a backup middle infielder we can all strut around because Stearns will then be "going for it" as the value of the prospects he traded away will have equaled that of the Rays.

[superfly]

Count me in the camp of lets get Gray now, and then pursue bigger fish in the offseason. That way we aren't chasing guys like Matt Garza and Suppan to fill a rotation out and can look higher up than our new #2 Sonny Gray. Extend him and move on with life.

[StearnsFTW]

If the small market D rays are "going for it", why the hell shouldn't the small market Brewers. Opportunities to make the playoffs(and once there ANYTHING can happen), don't come around very often for small market clubs typically, so why not capitalize on the opportunities you do have?? If it doesn't work, it doesn't work..it's no different then banking on prospects to get you to the promised land. I'd say there is even less of a chance of that working, and even if it does..when??

 

Highly doubtful Stearns will make any other moves..but he should, and I know Mark A would like him to. Flukey season or not, they are still in this, why not do what you can(at a reasonable cost) to bring in as much/many improvements as you can for this year, and still have those players in future years as well.

 

The team's pitching is horrible.

 

Thank God our GM is smart enough to understand this.

[wildcat2237]

The latest from MLBTraderumors.com:

 

Heyman’s Latest: Royals, Lynn, Gray, Rockies, Brewers

By Steve Adams | July 27, 2017 at 9:12pm CDT

 

Brewers owner Mark Attanasio is more willing to part with top prospects in order to land Sonny Gray than his front office is, according to Heyman. General manager David Stearns and his staff are reluctant to part with the club’s very top prospects, and Attanasio has been deferring to the preferences of his baseball operations staff. The Athletics are eyeing center field prospect Lewis Brinson, Heyman continues, but it seems that the Brewers’ front office isn’t keen on parting with that level of talent.

 

 

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/heymans-latest-royals-lynn-gray-rockies-brewers.html

[MrTPlush]

So Attanasio wants Gray, but gives all power to front office.

 

It's almost news, but it isn't. Stearns isn't giving up Brinson so no need to worry there.

[wildcat2237]

So Attanasio wants Gray, but gives all power to front office.

 

It's almost news, but it isn't. Stearns isn't giving up Brinson so no need to worry there.

 

Yep. It also explains the Brewers link to the Tigers. Stearns is probably thinking he can acquire talent by taking on salary instead of giving up prospects.

[adambr2]

If you've followed the thread then you know I want Gray. So yes absolutely I want Stearns to trade for him, assuming we don't have to give up Brinson.

 

 

So maybe we can't make that assumption. If the White Sox got Jimenez as the headliner from the Cubs, what makes you think we can tell the A's that Brinson is off the table and still land Gray?

[HighHeat19]

The scary part is that the Brewer's have checked in on Granderson. Which tells me that there's a possibility of trading Brinson.

 

Me no likey.

[rickh150]

The scary part is that the Brewer's have checked in on Granderson. Which tells me that there's a possibility of trading Brinson.

 

Me no likey.

 

More likely Phillips...

[paul253]

If the White Sox got Jimenez as the headliner from the Cubs, what makes you think we can tell the A's that Brinson is off the table and still land Gray

 

Three reasons. First, Jimenez is in low A ball. I don't care how good of a prospect you are that's a big risk. Brinson, on the other hand is major league ready. I don't know anything about Jimenez but I'd take Brinson over him in a heartbeat just because I know for a fact Brinson will play in the major leagues for sure.

 

Second, after Jimenez the rest of the guys the Sox got are kind of meh. Cease is a top 100 guy, true, but he's also in A ball. Big big risk. I believe he has an injury history as well. The Brewers can offer guys just as talented (Ortiz or Burnes for example) who are much closer to the majors. Additionally, the third and fourth pieces can be better quality than the third and fourth pieces the Sox got.

 

Third. The Yankees are said to be the front runners for Gray yet they are reportedly refusing to move their top three or four guys as well. Frazier, Torres, and some others. The A's might eventually get a better offer but I think we can make a reasonable offer without Brinson. In other words, if it was just us negotiating with Oakland I have no doubt they could make a deal without giving up Brinson.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Could adding Trent Clark and a 4th piece get this done and let us keep Brinson?

 

Brewers get:

RHP Sonny Gray

2B Jed Lowrie

 

A's get:

OF Corey Ray (or OF Brett Phillips)

RHP Luis Ortiz

OF Trent Clark

RHP Cody Ponce (or a similar tiered 4th piece)

 

Jed Lowrie would give us another option at 2B and his numbers are actually better than Ian Kinslers this year, as well as being 2 years younger and more versatile (can play 2B,3B, SS)

 

I just don't think Trent Clark will be much more than a replacement level player at the MLB level.

 

Note: I'm starting to believe that outside of Brinson, that Monte Harrison should be the next in line OF that the Brewers should be reluctant to part with.

[mlloyd10]

Could adding Trent Clark and a 4th piece get this done and let us keep Brinson?

 

Brewers get:

RHP Sonny Gray

2B Jed Lowrie

 

A's get:

OF Corey Ray (or OF Brett Phillips)

RHP Luis Ortiz

OF Trent Clark

RHP Cody Ponce (or a similar tiered 4th piece)

 

Jed Lowrie would give us another option at 2B and his numbers are actually better than Ian Kinslers this year, as well as being 2 years younger and more versatile (can play 2B,3B, SS)

 

I just don't think Trent Clark will be much more than a replacement level player at the MLB level.

 

Note: I'm starting to believe that outside of Brinson, that Monte Harrison should be the next in line OF that the Brewers should be reluctant to part with.

 

If the report was true that we did offer Ray/Ortiz for Quintana and that deal would have got it done until the Cubs came in, dont think you need to add Clark and Ponce.

[MrTPlush]

David Stearns didn't trade Lewis Brinson for Jose Quintana so step off the ledge concerned Brinson fans. If Brinson goes it will be for someone better than Quintana...probably a lot better/more valuable.

 

I guess Stearns could pull a 180 and cave in to Attanasio's wants, but at that point Stearn's is just as stupid as Attanasio and I guess our GM isn't so great after all. Especially if he goes out and gets someone worse for Brinson when he could have had Quintana.

[A Swing and A Drive]

There's no way the White Sox would have taken Ray/Ortiz as the top two pieces in a Quintana trade, let alone the ONLY two pieces.

 

I don't doubt that's all Stearns offered as a rejected starting point, however.

[PaulLeoMolitor]

There's no way the White Sox would have taken Ray/Ortiz as the top two pieces in a Quintana trade, let alone the ONLY two pieces.

 

I don't doubt that's all Stearns offered as a rejected starting point, however.

 

"No way" - That's ridiculous. You don't know that. Based on what the Cubs got, I have a hard time believing your assumption. Ray and Ortiz are not that far off from Jimenez and Cease (not to mention closer to the majors). I think the Brewers almost certainly could have added in a couple of pieces to make that deal work.