Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...

[Greenleaf1]

As much as I'd love for the Brewers to go out and get a controllable starter, I think that balance between present and future is best served by holding onto all of our upper levels pitching prospects at this point, or at least the top 4 (Hader/Woodruff/Ortiz/Burnes).

 

I'm not smart enough to pick out which ones, but I'd be very surprised if we didn't get at least 2 very quality Major League pitchers out of those 4 guys, which should be enough to fill up our rotation as early as next year, assuming Nelson/Anderson can continue the success they've had this year, and leaving the #5 spot for Garza/Davies.

 

I imagine our roster of position players combined with a rotation that looks something like Nelson/Anderson/Davies/Woodruff/Hader to start next year with Ortiz/Burnes waiting in the wings at AAA, and I'd hate for us to get a little bit too overzealous about this season without at least looking forward to next season and seeing the potential to be a real contender instead of the fringe contender we are now.

 

I know a lot of things have gone WAY right for us this year to be in the spot we're in now. The emergence of two potential aces, incredible performances from Shaw/Santana/Pina/Arcia, solid production from Thames/Aguilar, and not necessarily all of these great developments will continue into next year, but as Stearns has said, he's looking to balance the present with the future, and I think the best way to do that is to let this corps of young pitching come into its own, and then revisit where we're at at the deadline next year when there are less holes to fill. I'd feel a lot better about going out and getting a 2.5 year controllable starter next year (if that's what we'll need) over this year. At least by then we should have a better idea of what our pitching situation will be like over the next 5 years or so.

 

If we could go out this year and get someone like Verlander for a lower acquisition cost than Gray by taking on money, I'd be much more on board for that, but if we can't get Gray for some package like Ray/Phillips and lower level prospects, I think I'd pass.

 

But as always, I trust David Stearns to make a better call than I would.

[bill hAll Star]

I've always been in the camp of holding our prospects but another part of me wonders if this exact same Cubs team (through their mid/late 20s) plus some cocktail of Darvish/Otani/Harper/etc. through 2021 or 2022 is going to be head-and-shoulders above the Brewers every year until then. Plus you've got good organizations in the Cards and Pirates and the Reds who are also rebuilding.

[JohnBriggs12]

I've always been in the camp of holding our prospects but another part of me wonders if this exact same Cubs team (through their mid/late 20s) plus some cocktail of Darvish/Otani/Harper/etc. through 2021 or 2022 is going to be head-and-shoulders above the Brewers every year until then. Plus you've got good organizations in the Cards and Pirates and the Reds who are also rebuilding.

 

Your premise is right on the money. The Cubs are pretty well set through 2021. The Brewers need a lot to go right in any particular year between now and then just to get to the position they are in now.

[MoreTrife]

I've always been in the camp of holding our prospects but another part of me wonders if this exact same Cubs team (through their mid/late 20s) plus some cocktail of Darvish/Otani/Harper/etc. through 2021 or 2022 is going to be head-and-shoulders above the Brewers every year until then. Plus you've got good organizations in the Cards and Pirates and the Reds who are also rebuilding.

 

Your premise is right on the money. The Cubs are pretty well set through 2021. The Brewers need a lot to go right in any particular year between now and then just to get to the position they are in now.

 

I disagree that the Cubs are set to be a perennial powerhouse. Now that may change with a few big ticket FA signings that they are capable of (Yu, Harper) but those aren't a given. As is, I see 2 top players on their roster, Rizzo and Bryant. Go around the diamond and it is a lot of average players - Baez, Russel, Almora aren't world beaters. Happ could be good but isn't a stud yet. Heyward? Schwarber could turn it around but the best he'll become is an 850 OPS liability in the field. They don't have young stud pitchers other than Quintana I guess. Their minors are emptied mostly. Basically they are reliant on FA signings.

[paul253]

And ironically with the Yankees he would be their number three starter.

 

Even if that's true we aren't the Yankees. On this team he'd be the two but on this team he'd be the three and in that team he'd be the four. Who cares? On the Brewers he'd probably be the number 1 pitcher, which means we would acquire a player who is our best starting pitcher. If he's only a number three then he's a damn good number three. And what does that make the rest of our staff?

 

I get that health is a concern but he's healthy now and he's pitching really well now. There are just as many risks in holding on to an Ortiz or a Woodruff. Two years ago nobody would have wanted to trade Lopez either. I'm sure it doesn't need to be repeated how incredibly awful we've been at developing our own starting pitchers. These guys are far from sure things. Far far from sure things. Trading away one of them isn't going to be the end of the world but if t turns out to bite us in the butt three years from now, what are you going to do? We tried. In three years we'll have a whole new crop of prospects we'll be talking about anyway. Offensively the Brewers have developed a really nice core of guys who can be around for awhile. What we need is pitching. If you can acquire a Sonny Gray or a different quality starter you won't have to rely on Jimmy Nelson and Chase Anderson to have career years every time you want to compete.

[brewmann04]

Very delicate process on moving young potential pitching prospects

[Austin Tatious]

 

The Brewers were said by sources to have “backed off” a bit after deciding the prospect package requested was a bit rich for their blood – though the situation remains fluid and no one is necessarily eliminated yet....

 

...The A’s are said to be interested in landing a center field prospect in the deal. With the Brewers not too likely to want to include top center field prospect Lewis Brinson and the Braves all but certain to want to exclude Ronald Acuna, the Yankees, with a deep stash including multiple center fielders, could hold a bit of an edge. They have Estevan Florial, who has won admires, plus Jorge Mateo, the sometime shortstop who’s been playing center lately.

 

 

SIAP

 

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/heyman-yankees-talking-sonny-gray-deal/

[clancyphile]

I've always been in the camp of holding our prospects but another part of me wonders if this exact same Cubs team (through their mid/late 20s) plus some cocktail of Darvish/Otani/Harper/etc. through 2021 or 2022 is going to be head-and-shoulders above the Brewers every year until then. Plus you've got good organizations in the Cards and Pirates and the Reds who are also rebuilding.

 

Your premise is right on the money. The Cubs are pretty well set through 2021. The Brewers need a lot to go right in any particular year between now and then just to get to the position they are in now.

 

They will have to spend a lot on FA, whereas the Brewers are ahead of schedule on the re-build.

 

There are a host of young starters on the way up or who are rookies... Woodruff, Suter, Burnes, Ortiz, Hader - that's a rotation right there, and doesn't factor in Wang or Wilkerson. I like that kind of set-up... and thats not counting F. Peralta, Diplan, and others coming up.

[Madhawk23]

So, unless if we swoop in here at the last minute and offer up a great package to Oakland - I'm assuming that we are pretty much out of the running now for Gray. Which I think I'm perfectly OK with. Just too many question marks with this guy, and because he really isn't a true ace - I don't think it is worth giving up a huge prospect package for him, especially since we've now pissed away our division lead.

[JosephC]

The fact that Gray has not been traded yet leaves me to believe that he's not going to bring a big headliner player back to the A's. The A's should still get a very good return for him, but I'm guessing it will be more of a quantity over quality deal. Personally, I think that's a better strategy for the A's anyway considering they are a small-market team and are in perpetual rebuild mode (maybe that will change if and when they get their new stadium).

 

In the end I think the Yankees will get him. Considering Yonder Alonso can be packaged gets the A's a slightly better package and gives the Yankees the upper hand over other bidders. The A's may still be holding out in hopes of landing RHP prospect Chance Adams, but somehow I get the feeling the Yankees will throw enough other pieces at the A's to get them to bite.

 

Yankees get:

RHP-Sonny Gray

1B-Yonder Alonso

 

A's get:

OF-Estevan Florial

LHP-Justus Sheffield

RHP-Domingo Acevedo

RHP-Nolan Martinez

OF-Jake Cave

 

That's an estimated 61.5 million in prospect value going to the A's. I think that is a slight overpay for the Yankees but certainly not unreasonable (think Gray/Alonso are really worth about 50 million in value). Even though the values of Chance Adams and Justus Sheffield are not significantly different, I think Adams is a much more desirable prospect and if the A's land him instead of Sheffield it would make it a very, very good deal for them.

[A Swing and A Drive]

The fact that Gray has not been traded yet leaves me to believe that he's not going to bring a big headliner player back to the A's. The A's should still get a very good return for him, but I'm guessing it will be more of a quantity over quality deal. Personally, I think that's a better strategy for the A's anyway considering they are a small-market team and are in perpetual rebuild mode (maybe that will change if and when they get their new stadium).

 

In the end I think the Yankees will get him. Considering Yonder Alonso can be packaged gets the A's a slightly better package and gives the Yankees the upper hand over other bidders. The A's may still be holding out in hopes of landing RHP prospect Chance Adams, but somehow I get the feeling the Yankees will throw enough other pieces at the A's to get them to bite.

 

Yankees get:

RHP-Sonny Gray

1B-Yonder Alonso

 

A's get:

OF-Estevan Florial

LHP-Justus Sheffield

RHP-Domingo Acevedo

RHP-Nolan Martinez

OF-Jake Cave

 

That's an estimated 61.5 million in prospect value going to the A's. I think that is a slight overpay for the Yankees but certainly not unreasonable (think Gray/Alonso are really worth about 50 million in value). Even though the values of Chance Adams and Justus Sheffield are not significantly different, I think Adams is a much more desirable prospect and if the A's land him instead of Sheffield it would make it a very, very good deal for them.

 

I think the Brewers could easily beat this deal without Brinson, Hader or Burnes.

 

Look like Nationals are out on the Gray sweepstakes.

 

If the Mariners or Brewers don't beat this package with a weak headliner, then I guess the Yankees win again.

[MrTPlush]

Gray not being traded yet means nothing to the possible package. We took a long time to trade both Gomez and Lucroy. Both times people thought we were going to get a dissapointing package and when we whiffed on the first traded people we then really sure the package was going to be dissapointing.

 

Everyone was wrong to say the least. The deadline isn't a race for either buyers or sellers.

[pacopete4]

Let em.

[mlloyd10]

Philips/Woodruff/Diaz for Gray

[A Swing and A Drive]

Let em.

 

I guess the Yankees can just throw their next World Series banner on the pile, while the Brewers celebrate their 1982 World Series LOSS for the forseeable future and hang WILD CARD CHAMPION BANNERS at Miller Park.

 

Fun.

[DocLuna7]

I wish that I felt that Sonny Gray is all we needed to be a World Series champion.

[pacopete4]

Let em.

 

I guess the Yankees can just throw their next World Series banner on the pile, while the Brewers celebrate their 1982 World Series LOSS for the forseeable future and hang WILD CARD CHAMPION BANNERS at Miller Park.

 

Fun.

 

 

Again, dramatic.

 

 

Gray isn't pushing this team over the top unless it comes with a new bullpen too. Gray is an above average pitcher who we don't need to put a bunch of resources into. There will probably be another Gray on the market next season if we need to go that route.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I wish that I felt that Sonny Gray is all we needed to be a World Series champion.

 

It would at least be nice to win another Wild Card Championship.

 

Again, just sayin'...

[nate82]

Let em.

 

I guess the Yankees can just throw their next World Series banner on the pile, while the Brewers celebrate their 1982 World Series LOSS for the forseeable future and hang WILD CARD CHAMPION BANNERS at Miller Park.

 

Fun.

 

Please explain how Gray makes this team a World Series contender? At best Gray makes the Brewers a WILD CARD CHAMPION BANNER team.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I'll take it. Sounds like fun.

 

Way more fun then finishing a couple games in back of the Division and Wild Card, NOT being Sellers, and NOT getting a high draft pick anyway.

[DocLuna7]

Yeah, unless we are planning on acquiring Sonny to put him in the bullpen I don't think that he makes us wild card champs either unfortunately. I hope to be proven wrong

[MrTPlush]

August can't come soon enough. This forum has been a broken record for weeks. We got it...person A doesn't want to buy and person B wants to get a big addition. Still amazes me people still can't wrap their mind around the concept Sonny Gray doesn't have to be a win now move for this year. He and just about every other player we are connected to is controllable even past next year.

 

 

I'm not really a Sonny Gray addition supporter, but it wouldn't upset me that much knowing he is controllable 2 more years. I probably wouldn't make a huge addition this summer, but any controllable player added doesn't make me that upset.

 

I'm not sure what is available this winter or *possibly* next summer, but maybe they prefer Gray(and his price) over those potential options.

[adambr2]

Let em.

 

I guess the Yankees can just throw their next World Series banner on the pile, while the Brewers celebrate their 1982 World Series LOSS for the forseeable future and hang WILD CARD CHAMPION BANNERS at Miller Park.

 

Fun.

 

Yeah because Sonny Gray is going to change any of that.

[OnaBadger58]

Still amazes me people still can't wrap their mind around the concept Sonny Gray doesn't have to be a win now move for this year. He and just about every other player we are connected to is controllable even past next year.

Do you think the Brewers are contenders next year? I'm not trading assets right now for a player that may make a playoff impact for one year of his contract. Gray's price is high because of his talent and control. The Brewers will pay extra for a year in which they probably won't be contending. That's why I'm not wrapping my head around Gray.

[MrTPlush]

Still amazes me people still can't wrap their mind around the concept Sonny Gray doesn't have to be a win now move for this year. He and just about every other player we are connected to is controllable even past next year.

Do you think the Brewers are contenders next year? I'm not trading assets right now for a player that may make a playoff impact for one year of his contract. Gray's price is high because of his talent and control. The Brewers will pay extra for a year in which they probably won't be contending. That's why I'm not wrapping my head around Gray.

 

Who knows? Lots of money and prospects to make a lot of changes for next year. Also a lot of pitchers will be at AAA and Dubon should be ready to help out. If we are on the verge of competing now why can't we next year?

 

Simply put, yes, I think the Brewers field an even better team after many additions before next season to be competitive.