Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...

[DocLuna7]

Sources: #Brewers fading in Sonny Gray discussions.

 

Thank goodness. The thought of trading away the farm for Gray makes me cringe.

 

X2

 

Hoping Rosenthal is right. X3

[Fear The Chorizo]

You have ot have the stomach/kahunas for it.

 

Look no further than WI Dells for those Kahunas, Mr Stearns...

 

http://cdn0.locable.com/uploads/resource/file/182063/Big-Kahuna-Wave-Pool-Noahs-Ark.jpg

[KeithStone53151]

As far as verlander goes, I would advocate for a trade there more so than for gray, but again it depends on cost. Keep in mind though, taking on all that salary will limit our ability to spend in free agency down the road. So the deal has to be right. Stearns can't be reckless, and I have full faith he won't be.

 

Can I just ask why you'd prefer to trade for the guy that is almost 7 years older, is insanely expensive and having a significantly worse season?

 

Verlander doesn't have nearly as many red flags as gray. He also has an incredibly solid track record and hasn't shown much regression. I believe verlander will be a better pitcher over the next 2+ years than gray. At the very least he has more upside. Also it would all depend on cost. If we took on most of the salary, I would think it will have minimal prospect cost. It's possible we could also get Justin Wilson included in a bigger deal that still doesn't require too much in prospects and for sure doesn't touch our top pitching. And if it doesn't cost minimal in prospects, then don't do it.

[Brewcrewin07]

From Ken Rosenthal...

 

Sources: #Brewers fading in Sonny Gray discussions.

 

I'm not surprised in the least...As I had assumed all along. Being mentioned with everyone, but not acquiring anyone. Oh well, looks like Brewers aren't going to do anything. I have a feeling that Stearns is the type of GM that WAY overvalues his prospects, and thinks most of them are worth a lot more than they really are. So no matter what, he is always going to feel like acquiring someone is an overpay, when in reality it's likely not. I think he has no problems giving up "fringe" prospects or guys that are blocked (Cooper), but when it actually comes down to trading away(what he thinks is) a higher level prospect...He just can't bring himself to do it. I think no matter what, he would always feel like he didn't get a very good deal, and he can't stomach that. I just hope his rebuild works, but it's a long shot I'd say.

[JohnBriggs12]

From Ken Rosenthal...

 

Sources: #Brewers fading in Sonny Gray discussions.

 

I'm not surprised in the least...As I had assumed all along. Being mentioned with everyone, but not acquiring anyone. Oh well, looks like Brewers aren't going to do anything. I have a feeling that Stearns is the type of GM that WAY overvalues his prospects, and thinks most of them are worth a lot more than they really are. So no matter what, he is always going to feel like acquiring someone is an overpay, when in reality it's likely not. I think he has no problems giving up "fringe" prospects or guys that are blocked (Cooper), but when it actually comes down to trading away(what he thinks is) a higher level prospect...He just can't bring himself to do it. I think no matter what, he would always feel like he didn't get a very good deal, and he can't stomach that. I just hope his rebuild works, but it's a long shot I'd say.

 

Agreed. Not going after Gray and letting the Cubs jump up and grab Quintana is a clear message to the current roster: "You guys aren't good enough". Now wonder they're tanking badly since the break. Management doesn't believe in them, why should they?

[brewtank34]

From Ken Rosenthal...

 

Sources: #Brewers fading in Sonny Gray discussions.

 

I'm not surprised in the least...As I had assumed all along. Being mentioned with everyone, but not acquiring anyone. Oh well, looks like Brewers aren't going to do anything. I have a feeling that Stearns is the type of GM that WAY overvalues his prospects, and thinks most of them are worth a lot more than they really are. So no matter what, he is always going to feel like acquiring someone is an overpay, when in reality it's likely not. I think he has no problems giving up "fringe" prospects or guys that are blocked (Cooper), but when it actually comes down to trading away(what he thinks is) a higher level prospect...He just can't bring himself to do it. I think no matter what, he would always feel like he didn't get a very good deal, and he can't stomach that. I just hope his rebuild works, but it's a long shot I'd say.

 

Was this supposed to be in blue?

 

There is still 6 days until the deadline. Most trades don't happen until the last few hours. David Stearns has done nearly everything perfect in this rebuild. I believe it may be a tad early for such cynicism.

[Devinep]

Sources: #Brewers fading in Sonny Gray discussions.

 

I'm not surprised in the least...As I had assumed all along. Being mentioned with everyone, but not acquiring anyone. Oh well, looks like Brewers aren't going to do anything. I have a feeling that Stearns is the type of GM that WAY overvalues his prospects, and thinks most of them are worth a lot more than they really are. So no matter what, he is always going to feel like acquiring someone is an overpay, when in reality it's likely not. I think he has no problems giving up "fringe" prospects or guys that are blocked (Cooper), but when it actually comes down to trading away(what he thinks is) a higher level prospect...He just can't bring himself to do it. I think no matter what, he would always feel like he didn't get a very good deal, and he can't stomach that. I just hope his rebuild works, but it's a long shot I'd say.

 

Agreed. Not going after Gray and letting the Cubs jump up and grab Quintana is a clear message to the current roster: "You guys aren't good enough". Now wonder they're tanking badly since the break. Management doesn't believe in them, why should they?

 

You can't really think they're not playing well because some mighty ducks-type feeling because Stearns doesn't believe in them like Gordon Bombay sarcastically said to coach Reilly?

 

why try to win when the GM hasn't made a big trade yet?

[stoutdude04]

 

Agreed. Not going after Gray and letting the Cubs jump up and grab Quintana is a clear message to the current roster: "You guys aren't good enough". Now wonder they're tanking badly since the break. Management doesn't believe in them, why should they?

 

I agree with him. They probably aren't good enough. I don't think 1 pitcher is going to put this team over the top. They appeared to play over their heads for the 1st half of the season and are now regressing to the mean. This was always probably a slightly below 500 ballclub and they are showing some warts.

[paul253]

Verlander doesn't have nearly as many red flags as gray. He also has an incredibly solid track record and hasn't shown much regression. I believe verlander will be a better pitcher over the next 2+ years than gray.

 

To each his own I guess. Gray actually has a lower career ERA and is far younger and far cheaper. I think the fact that Verlander would cost significantly less in terms of prospects shows that Gray is currently the better pitcher.

 

I also kind of chuckle at the people who think we would have to "give up the farm" to acquire Gray.

 

But whatever. It looks as though it isn't happening so let's hope DS can find some other way to keep this team in contention.

[KeithStone53151]

Sources: #Brewers fading in Sonny Gray discussions.

 

I'm not surprised in the least...As I had assumed all along. Being mentioned with everyone, but not acquiring anyone. Oh well, looks like Brewers aren't going to do anything. I have a feeling that Stearns is the type of GM that WAY overvalues his prospects, and thinks most of them are worth a lot more than they really are. So no matter what, he is always going to feel like acquiring someone is an overpay, when in reality it's likely not. I think he has no problems giving up "fringe" prospects or guys that are blocked (Cooper), but when it actually comes down to trading away(what he thinks is) a higher level prospect...He just can't bring himself to do it. I think no matter what, he would always feel like he didn't get a very good deal, and he can't stomach that. I just hope his rebuild works, but it's a long shot I'd say.

 

Agreed. Not going after Gray and letting the Cubs jump up and grab Quintana is a clear message to the current roster: "You guys aren't good enough". Now wonder they're tanking badly since the break. Management doesn't believe in them, why should they?

 

You can't really think they're not playing well because some mighty ducks-type feeling because Stearns doesn't believe in them like Gordon Bombay sarcastically said to coach Reilly?

 

why try to win when the GM hasn't made a big trade yet?

 

Oh goodness, enough of this "not making a splash is a clear message" nonsense. How emotionally weak do you think the brewers are? These are grown men and professionals, not some little leaguers that need a candy bar and an "atta boy" at the end of each game they lose to keep it fun. They all have every reason and motivation to leave it all in the field everyday. Of all the opinions being discussed in this thread, this subtle "message" is so wrong and silly its laughable.

[FVBrewerFan]

Agreed. Not going after Gray and letting the Cubs jump up and grab Quintana is a clear message to the current roster: "You guys aren't good enough". Now wonder they're tanking badly since the break. Management doesn't believe in them, why should they?

 

If the players on this team are that emotionally fragile, then Stearns shouldn't be a buyer. Because these guys will never handle the pressure of a pennant race if they are so shook up over not getting Sonny Gray.

 

Not to mention, how in the world do you know what the A's are asking for? Have you noticed nobody else has traded for him yet? And you know Stearns isn't targeting a different starter instead right? (Hopefully not.)

 

Finally, maybe the message should be "You guy aren't good enough." But you never know, prove everyone wrong. When they started the season did they really believe they were WS contenders? No. Did they mope and not try hard, emotionally damaged? No.

[JohnBriggs12]

 

Agreed. Not going after Gray and letting the Cubs jump up and grab Quintana is a clear message to the current roster: "You guys aren't good enough". Now wonder they're tanking badly since the break. Management doesn't believe in them, why should they?

 

I agree with him. They probably aren't good enough. I don't think 1 pitcher is going to put this team over the top. They appeared to play over their heads for the 1st half of the season and are now regressing to the mean. This was always probably a slightly below 500 ballclub and they are showing some warts.

 

When they let the Cubs grab Quintana for no prospect above A ball during the break when the Brewers were 5.5 games up led to a self-fulfilling prophecy as it discouraged the current roster and gave a huge boost to the Cubs coming out of the break. So it's easy now to look back and say oh that first half was a mirage...blah, blah, blah. Fact is Stearns could have boosted the Brewer roster and discouraged the Cubs by getting Quintana.

 

If you didn't think being 5.5 games up at the break was the time to part with any prospects, well I suggest it'll be a long time before the Brewers are 5.5 games up on the Cubs.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Agreed. Not going after Gray and letting the Cubs jump up and grab Quintana is a clear message to the current roster: "You guys aren't good enough". Now wonder they're tanking badly since the break. Management doesn't believe in them, why should they?

 

The same management that has made a series of moves over the last 2 years to bring in or call up all these players and give them their shot in the bigs aside from Braun and Garza?

 

These aren't kids playing American Legion hoping and praying that their coach is able to pry big Jimmy away from the traveling all star squad before the state tourney starts so they have a chance before fall band practice starts back up again. If they are as emotionally fragile as you opine, they'd be next to the Reds in the standings right now.

 

As for the Cubs jumping up and grabbing Quintana by apparently giving nothing valuable up because those prospects were a few years away, 20-yr old Mr. Jimenez is well on his way to shortening the time before he's playing every day on the south side of Chicago...he's also the 5th-ranked prospect according to BA, and that's with Moncada still topping the list even though he was just brought up to the majors.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-eloy-jimenez-white-sox-minor-leagues-spt-0725-20170724-story.html

[brewtank34]

From Ken Rosenthal...

 

Sources: #Brewers fading in Sonny Gray discussions.

 

I'm not surprised in the least...As I had assumed all along. Being mentioned with everyone, but not acquiring anyone. Oh well, looks like Brewers aren't going to do anything. I have a feeling that Stearns is the type of GM that WAY overvalues his prospects, and thinks most of them are worth a lot more than they really are. So no matter what, he is always going to feel like acquiring someone is an overpay, when in reality it's likely not. I think he has no problems giving up "fringe" prospects or guys that are blocked (Cooper), but when it actually comes down to trading away(what he thinks is) a higher level prospect...He just can't bring himself to do it. I think no matter what, he would always feel like he didn't get a very good deal, and he can't stomach that. I just hope his rebuild works, but it's a long shot I'd say.

 

Was this supposed to be in blue?

 

There is still 6 days until the deadline. Most trades don't happen until the last few hours. David Stearns has done nearly everything perfect in this rebuild. I believe it may be a tad early for such cynicism.

[82brewcrew82]

 

Agreed. Not going after Gray and letting the Cubs jump up and grab Quintana is a clear message to the current roster: "You guys aren't good enough". Now wonder they're tanking badly since the break. Management doesn't believe in them, why should they?

 

I agree with him. They probably aren't good enough. I don't think 1 pitcher is going to put this team over the top. They appeared to play over their heads for the 1st half of the season and are now regressing to the mean. This was always probably a slightly below 500 ballclub and they are showing some warts.

 

When they let the Cubs grab Quintana for no prospect above A ball during the break when the Brewers were 5.5 games up led to a self-fulfilling prophecy as it discouraged the current roster and gave a huge boost to the Cubs coming out of the break. So it's easy now to look back and say oh that first half was a mirage...blah, blah, blah. Fact is Stearns could have boosted the Brewer roster and discouraged the Cubs by getting Quintana.

 

If you didn't think being 5.5 games up at the break was the time to part with any prospects, well I suggest it'll be a long time before the Brewers are 5.5 games up on the Cubs.

 

To be clear, you have absolutely no idea what the effect of any decision has on the attitude of the team. You can state your opinion as fact all you want but it is nothing more than conjecture. I also believe that if you look back there were pelnty of folks saying this team was playing over it's head. I don't think anyone is looking back so much as the team is performing to expectations. I highly doubt the Cubs would have been discouraged if we had gotten Quintana. The Cubs would still have the more talented roster and would have just gone out and gotten a different pitcher.

 

So if it will be a long time before the Brewers are 5.5 games up on the Cubs, is that an admission that the Cubs have been the better team all along and just not playing to their ability? If they were 5.5 up a week ago with this roster, why couldn't they be 5.5 up a week from now? Did you believe the Brewers were a division winner before the season started? If you believed they were back then, why so desperate to add talent now? If not, do you really believe Sonny Gray is the piece that puts them over the top? Does Sonny Gray make them more talented than the Cubs?

 

What about the A's? Should they trade Gray just because we want them to? There have been more than enough teams linked to him to create a bidding war. Several of those teams can outbid us quite easily in terms of talent (just as the Cubs could and did for Quintana). Why would the A's not hold on to Gray for as long as possible as the deals will only get better as we get closer to the deadline? Should Stearns just waive his magic wand and make Bean comply with his wishes? If we were trading Gray, would we not want Stearns to hold out for the bet deal possible?

 

And what of all these "reports"? How many of them had the Quintana deal before it happened? Are we to take every one of these reports as truth (even as most turn out to be false)? No one on this board has any idea what is going on behind closed doors. I'm not losing any sleep over Cahill or Garcia. Other than that, we simply don't know.

 

Again, I admire your commitment to the "win now" philosophy but, in my opinion, you are dead wrong. I think Stearns has handled this beautifully. I'm just glad we have a GM that has the courage and patience to see this through and not a knee jerk reactionary GM as some of you would like.

[brewcrewdue80]

Yes, prospects fail. So you should take the SP with a track record. The pain in that is we have 4+Quality SP prospects and it will cost at least 1, I don't care how many of our great OF prospects we offer Beane will want a SP for his SP.

 

In the Gomez/Fiers trade Hader was the throw in pretty much. Prospects fail. I'm high on Woodruff, people are really high on Burnes. I loved Ortiz predraft. Let's put those 4 in the one of the musts in the proposed trade for Gray. 2 of them succeed, 2 of them fail/flame out. You put the combo of Woodruff/Burnes in the trade for Gray and they go Ace for Oakland. Meanwhile Hader never gets better than a RP, and Ortiz never becomes better than a #4 starter.

 

But hey we got Gray prematurely for 2 years and quickly have become a barely around .500 team in 2019 because we have 0 pitching. Had we kept Woodruff/Burnes we'd be headlining a rebuilding team with 2 legit SPs for years to come. Ala the Astros with Keuchel and Mccullers. They were a team that waited til the rebuild was ready before they made their trade for Gomez/Fiers. Our rebuild is not ready, we haven't added our own Keuchel or McCullers to the roster. They went 3 seasons of 100 loss teams and then 70wins before they got to that point.

 

I think sitting and waiting is prudent to learn more on guys in the system so we don't end up with Jungmanns and Lopez type ceilings in the system due to acquiring 1 or 2 guys who don't help the team to begin with with the warts that are prestent.

 

Arcia, barely Phillips, Kneble, Hader barely, and Nelson are the only top 100 prospects we are playing with called up out of our system. Santana had games under his belt with Houston. We need to let a couple more get settled in to the roster before we trade these guys off for a rental or 2years of team control....2 is far less than 12 or 18.

 

Trading away Lawrie for Marcum, Lawrie produced more that 1st year than Marcum did, even though it was Marcum's best with Milwaukee and we seen how he did in the playoffs. What's not to say Gray wouldn't be like that come playoffs?

 

We get the Ray or Clark offers, like really? Give up early on your 1st round selections for 2 seasons of an undersized SP.

 

This season wasn't supposed to happen, you are in a rebuilding year. Hold for now and reap the rewards next season by all the great players you are adding to this team in 2018 or will be soon.

[adambr2]

They should start a baseball franchise run entirely by talk radio callers. Every week every caller thst gets on the air gets to vote on their next move.

 

I'd be really excited to see how this franchise does.

[adambr2]

 

I'm not surprised in the least...As I had assumed all along. Being mentioned with everyone, but not acquiring anyone. Oh well, looks like Brewers aren't going to do anything. I have a feeling that Stearns is the type of GM that WAY overvalues his prospects, and thinks most of them are worth a lot more than they really are. So no matter what, he is always going to feel like acquiring someone is an overpay, when in reality it's likely not. I think he has no problems giving up "fringe" prospects or guys that are blocked (Cooper), but when it actually comes down to trading away(what he thinks is) a higher level prospect...He just can't bring himself to do it. I think no matter what, he would always feel like he didn't get a very good deal, and he can't stomach that. I just hope his rebuild works, but it's a long shot I'd say.

 

Agreed. Not going after Gray and letting the Cubs jump up and grab Quintana is a clear message to the current roster: "You guys aren't good enough". Now wonder they're tanking badly since the break. Management doesn't believe in them, why should they?

 

Wow. Because the Cubs jumped in with a deal that the White Sox couldn't refuse, 2 weeks before the vast majority of deals go down, even though he WAS deep in talks for Quintana -- it means Stearns doesn't believe in the team. So they just went out and stopped trying now and that's why they haven't been winning. The offensive slump is the fault of David Stearns.

 

I was starting to come around on some of your stuff Briggs, but this has got to be a new low.

[MrTPlush]

IF...IF....David Stearns doesn't make any bigger moves it is kind of unfortunate he is more than ok with watching this team slowly fade off into the sunset. It was an extremely fun team to watch, but not improving it at the deadline much? Bummer. I think the guys down in the clubhouse would be effected by it. To what degree I don't know. It would show the GM isn't ready to invest in the team winning now.

 

While that is unfortunate for this years fortunes it is hard to say what it will do to the future. Hopefully those prospects he is holding onto improve and can be traded when we are making an even better run. Only time will tell there.

 

...that being said a bit early to even be having this conversation.

[FVBrewerFan]

Bottom line, people who have an axe to grind with Stearns will always find a reason he's to blame. Even if they traded for Gray and don't make the playoffs, the reason will be he didn't do it soon enough, or get Quintana instead. If they got Quintana during All-Star week and didn't make the playoffs, reason will be they should have added more talent at the start of the season.

 

All of this is ignoring the fact winning the WS this season was not the goal. Before anyone says it, no, that doesn't mean the players they have aren't trying to win. What it DOES mean is this season, like last, is to identify players who may be part of a true contending team.

 

So they exceed expectations over half a season, now you hear "if only Stearns would have added another SP at the start of the season" or another BP arm or two. Stearns is no different than any GM, there will always be some who will never be on board.

[brewmann04]

We do know this team played over their heads till the all star break.

[Oldcity]

 

 

Agreed. Not going after Gray and letting the Cubs jump up and grab Quintana is a clear message to the current roster: "You guys aren't good enough.

 

Well that's definitely a correct assessment. Even if they got Gray, they'd be unlikely to make the playoffs. The Brewers aren't a bad team, but they aren't very good, and they're way, way behind the Dodgers, Nats, and Cubs in terms of talent. It doesn't make any sense to give up a great prospect package when you aren't likely to even make the playoffs.

[brewmann04]

they are more than 1 arm away at this point.

[tmwiese55]

I said aroundthe break that the 10 games right after (plus the Cubs series before the deadline) would be critical on a decision. If we'd have won 7 or 8 vs the blah competition while the Cubs continued to struggle and won like 4. Then all of a sudden you have a 8-9 game lead with 60ish games to go, in that case you kind of have to go for it. Or if the opposite happened, then it would be a good reason to just ride it out, maybe add some marginal bullpen help at most. It's actually gone even worse than that so far so I think it should make their decision easy to not go overboard unless somehow this week goes incredibly our way.

[reillymcshane]

Report that the A's are 'prioritizing young center fielders as potential returns on Gray.' This is from Jon Morosi.

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/244303884/nationals-yankees-interested-in-sonny-gray/