Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...

[adambr2]

Hell even the Royals are "going for it"....But DS?? All we hear are *crickets*

 

He's been linked in talks to pretty much every available pitcher out there. You're just flat out trolling now.

 

DS being linked in talks with every available Pitcher...yes..but who has he acquired?? You can be linked in as many talks as you want, it's meaningless unless you acquire someone.

 

Then why exactly are you giving the Braves big props for looking into Sonny Gray, while Stearns, who has also looked into Sonny Gray, is just a big dum-dum?

 

As far as I know the Braves have also not yet acquired Sonny Gray.

[adambr2]

I think some of you guys need to stop acting like standing pat and not trading any prospects is the obvious best choice. Prospects appear and disappear faster than you blink. A year ago we were losing our minds over Diaz/Erceg and now they are meh. Jorge Lopez was our next great pitcher and now he is pretty terrible.

 

No one is saying get someone now and flip them later. It is just one option if our team ends up not competing in the future. We could also hold onto them and compete. These could also be good ideas. Sonny Gray could be a bargain now vs. this winter or next deadline. Who knows. There are potential downsides to each plan and disaster situations. Holding onto prospects promises nothing.

 

I don't think there is any superior plan for this deadline. Except not targeting half year rentals...which we could all probably agree is unwise.

 

I have no issue with trading prospects for controllable talent. I don't even have an issue witb trading for Gray, if the price is right.

 

What I have an issue with is the attitude by some (not you) that Stearns is just a big idiot who doesn't care about winning because he hasn't made a big splash a week before the trade deadline in response to a losing streak. I'm actually kind of relieved to this point in a way because I like seeing that he isn't going to make decisions based on emotions, which is no way to run a team.

 

If we trade for Gray, hey, that's fine, I'll look at it based on what we got and what we gave up and evaluate from there, not evaluate based on whether I thought we should buy or sell.

 

But the Stearns' criticism at this point is just ridiculous IMO. He's trying to balance the present and the future, as he should, and it's not an easy job. We have no idea what the depth or content of the discussions that have gone on and in many cases he's competing with many other teams for one player. Some seem to think it's just as simple as 'Hey here's some prospects that may never pan out, now give us Sonny Gray, and this is just so easy and why hasn't Stearns done this yet?!?!'

[paul253]

If all of our prospects fail, then it simply isn't meant to be and we need to draft/develop new prospects and hope some pan out

 

With all due respect that's a terrible strategy. Most prospects will flop. Even when a lot of them come together all at once and we have a really good core of guys like we did in 2007-2012 how did we get into the playoffs both times? We traded prospects for established players. If we never trade prospects and instead hope that enough of them succeed and then say "oh well let's try again" if they don't then this franchise will be a consistent middle to lower tier team.

 

So, to summarize, you want to give up a package that includes two top prospects (plus others) for Gray, then another 1-2 top prospects for a reliever and then you say the offense still needs to improve. Does that mean trading the rest of our top prospects for a couple bats?

 

For Gray: I said I'd give up one of Hader/Ortiz/Burnes/Woodruff plus other prospects who don't include Brinson.

 

For a reliever: I challenge your notion that it will take two "top prospects" to obtain one. I don't think it'll even take one. I think one or two mid tier prospects will do.

 

On the offense: Yes it needs to improve. It needs to be like it was earlier in the season. If you missed my earlier post which clearly you did I said we could possibly use an upgrade at second and maybe to the bench and that's all that I see. To even suggest that I'd trade "the rest of or top prospects" to improve the offense is not even close to what I said I'd do. I'm talking about moving maybe 4-5 prospects of who no more than 2 would be "top prospects" but the way you sum things up you'd think I want to empty out our entire top 10.

[MrTPlush]

LOL even the Braves...yes, the Atlanta Braves(nowhere near contention) realize how smart it is to try to acquire Sonny Gray..Yet Stearns apparently doesn't...

 

 

With all due respect, why are you on this site?

 

Because I like the Brewers...and I like watching winning baseball, and I want them to do whatever they can to win baall games, but it's just not happening..and I'm frustrated. It's okay, like the rest of the state I have Training camp opening in 3 days, and then the Brewers become irrelevant anyway.

 

 

Ok we don't care. You aren't even a real fan.

[MrTPlush]

I think some of the people freaking out over not making moves don't realize or remember that most moves don't happen this early. Seems this year there have been a ton of early moves, but let's not make that seem like we have to too.

 

Gomez and Lucroy were both traded very late in the game. There is plenty of time and most of the moves this deadline are yet to come across all of MLB.

[adambr2]

I have Training camp opening in 3 days, and then the Brewers become irrelevant anyway.

 

I like the Brewers

 

Yea, really sounds like it. I'm sure your fellow Packers posters can't wait to hear your takes on the awfulness of Ted Thompson for the next 6 months , though.

[Brewcrewin07]

I think some of you guys need to stop acting like standing pat and not trading any prospects is the obvious best choice. Prospects appear and disappear faster than you blink. A year ago we were losing our minds over Diaz/Erceg and now they are meh. Jorge Lopez was our next great pitcher and now he is pretty terrible.

 

No one is saying get someone now and flip them later. It is just one option if our team ends up not competing in the future. We could also hold onto them and compete. These could also be good ideas. Sonny Gray could be a bargain now vs. this winter or next deadline. Who knows. There are potential downsides to each plan and disaster situations. Holding onto prospects promises nothing.

 

I don't think there is any superior plan for this deadline. Except not targeting half year rentals...which we could all probably agree is unwise.

 

I have no issue with trading prospects for controllable talent. I don't even have an issue witb trading for Gray, if the price is right.

 

What I have an issue with is the attitude by some (not you) that Stearns is just a big idiot who doesn't care about winning because he hasn't made a big splash a week before the trade deadline in response to a losing streak. I'm actually kind of relieved to this point in a way because I like seeing that he isn't going to make decisions based on emotions, which is no way to run a team.

 

If we trade for Gray, hey, that's fine, I'll look at it based on what we got and what we gave up and evaluate from there, not evaluate based on whether I thought we should buy or sell.

 

But the Stearns' criticism at this point is just ridiculous IMO. He's trying to balance the present and the future, as he should, and it's not an easy job. We have no idea what the depth or content of the discussions that have gone on and in many cases he's competing with many other teams for one player. Some seem to think it's just as simple as 'Hey here's some prospects that may never pan out, now give us Sonny Gray, and this is just so easy and why hasn't Stearns done this yet?!?!'

 

Okay, maybe I will concede that he isn't an idiot..but what can NOT be argued is that he is definitely not being aggressive, and the question is why?? By now he knows the market, and the closer it gets to the deadline, the price sure isn't going down on guys..Let's put it this way, if at this point Stearns has TRULY decided that he is going to acquire someone, why hasn't he done it yet?? There is ZERO reason to wait, if that's what you are going to do. The Twins have acquired Garcia, the Royals just got a haul of players..They obviously feel like the cost is worth it, and why wouldn't you strike as quickly as you can?? why wouldn't you want your acquisition performing for you for as much of the rest of the season as possible?? The fact nothing is done yet, leads me to believe Stearns has decided to do something, but yet, is too afraid to actually do it.

[adambr2]

I think some of the people freaking out over not making moves don't realize or remember that most moves don't happen this early. Seems this year there have been a ton of early moves, but let's not make that seem like we have to too.

 

Gomez and Lucroy were both traded very late in the game. There is plenty of time and most of the moves this deadline are yet to come across all of MLB.

 

Honestly, if you told me right now that Gray gets traded in the next week, my money would still be on the Brewers.

 

I'd handicap it something like 40% Brewers/40% the field/20% stays in Oakland at this point.

[reillymcshane]

Okay, maybe I will concede that he isn't an idiot..

And anyone reading that will make them think the exact opposite of what you said.

but what can NOT be argued is that he is definitely not being aggressive,

You have no clue what's happening. You don't know offers he's made (or not made). You don't know how many people he has talked with, about who, about what the price of the players have been.

 

Being 'aggressive' and making an overpay is just foolish business.

 

By now he knows the market, and the closer it gets to the deadline, the price sure isn't going down on guys.

How do you know? For some players, the price is put extremely high - in the hopes that the price is paid. As the deadline approaches, that price may go down if no one is buying at the price. It all depend on the situation.

 

Let's put it this way, if at this point Stearns has TRULY decided that he is going to acquire someone, why hasn't he done it yet??

Because the price is too high. I don't know how hard that is to understand. It happens all the time. Is he so stupid that if a team says no to his offer that he just keeps upping the offer until he says yes? That's idiotic.

 

Perhaps the other team doesn't want to make a deal yet - waiting for others to get involved or someone to enter the scene at change the stakes (sort of like Kershaw getting hurt). We just don't know.

 

There is ZERO reason to wait, if that's what you are going to do.

Yes, there is. If waiting two weeks saves you a ton of value, you wait. Unless the product you want is available at the time for the price you feel is fair - then you wait if you feel that that price will drop.

 

The Twins have acquired Garcia, the Royals just got a haul of players.

Perhaps the the Twins and Royals are not interested in the high cost of someone like Sonny Gray. So they bought from a lower priced bin. For them, the price was right at the time they pulled the trigger.

 

They obviously feel like the cost is worth it, and why wouldn't you strike as quickly as you can??

Because buying too quickly costs too much.

 

why wouldn't you want your acquisition performing for you for as much of the rest of the season as possible??

Of course you would. And perhaps a team is willing to pay extra for getting a player earlier (like when Milwaukee got CC Sabathia back in 2008). But there is a cost/benefit to such a move. If the premium is too high - so be it - move on until you think the price is right (if ever).

 

The fact nothing is done yet, leads me to believe Stearns has decided to do something, but yet, is too afraid to actually do it.

Who the Brewers actually want to trade for - and what we are willing to give up - is only a guess.

 

To me, I'd love them to do several moves (a decent reliever or two, a decent starting pitcher). But if the price isn't right - wait.

 

People say, "Oh, Stearns is afraid to make a move." I say that's crap. Actually, I say he's not afraid to be smart, which means not overpaying. It takes far more guts to stick with what you believe is right for the franchise than to cave in to external pressures.

 

I get that people have different opinions on how the franchise should be run. I'm not saying they don't try and improve this year, but it's done on our terms. Perhaps that nets us nothing. And perhaps we regret in come October.

 

But now all we get is comments day after day about how Stearns is an idiot and a coward and not fit for the job, and moan every time something does or doesn't happen. We get it, you don't like Stearns. We get it, you want the team to do what ever it takes to close the deal. We get it, it frustrates you.

 

Oh well, I guess that's what this board is for. It's just not very fun.

[brewmann04]

DS is a smart guy and all the scared talk is really sickening.

[Brewcrewin07]

Because buying too quickly costs too much.

 

The Cubs bought quickly on Quintana, and I would say his cost was relatively low for a pitcher under control the next couple of seasons..They essentially gave up two A ballers that weren't going to be seeing the majors anytime soon anyway. If that is a high price to pay, I'd hate to see a cheap price. I get that they were a couple of the Cubs highest rated prospects, but just because it was THEIR highest rated prospects doesn't mean the Brewers would have had to given up their highest rated prospects. If the White Sox would have been willing to take quantity(and who knows one way or another) over quality, you don't think the Brewers couldn't have beat that offer pretty easily with some A and AA guys that probably weren't going to be a part of the Crew's future anyway?? I thought the Cubs got away cheap.

 

The other reason you don't wait to make a deal is it gives other teams(cubs specifically), to swoop in at the last minute at steal them out from under you. Now you didn't get the player and your main competitor just got even better, at probably the cost of a few pieces the Cubs weren't going to be needing anyway. You snooze you lose. Does that mean overpay?? No.

 

Let's take Justin Verlander for example..now, the THEORY is, if a team is willing to absorb most of Verlander's contract, it's thought you could get away with lessor prospects and probably get Wilson and maybe Kinsler too. That seems like a deal the Crew should make, don't you?? Why would Stearns be concerned about the $$?? Like Mark A told him.."I will worry about paying the bills, do what you need to do".

[Brewcrewin07]

DS is a smart guy and all the scared talk is really sickening.

 

Yeah in his own mind he is...he's a lot like Ted Thompson in that regard..in their minds, they are always the smartest guy in the room...except they aren't because someone one ups them, and looks lbrilliant for doing it.

[FVBrewerFan]

I feel like I'm reading talk radio. Is that possible?

[MrTPlush]

I feel like I'm reading talk radio. Is that possible?

 

All this talk about other sports and using them as a comparison makes me agree.

[superfly]

DS is so scared to make a trade he traded the fan favorite (Lucroy) and probably the 2nd fan favorite (Gomez) away last year. Man do you sound foolish. I think they should be a bit quicker with the aggression if we ARE going to make a deal but good lord, save the bashing for Ted T later this year where it rightfully belongs.

[KeithStone53151]

Because buying too quickly costs too much.

 

The Cubs bought quickly on Quintana, and I would say his cost was relatively low for a pitcher under control the next couple of seasons..They essentially gave up two A ballers that weren't going to be seeing the majors anytime soon anyway. If that is a high price to pay, I'd hate to see a cheap price. I get that they were a couple of the Cubs highest rated prospects, but just because it was THEIR highest rated prospects doesn't mean the Brewers would have had to given up their highest rated prospects. If the White Sox would have been willing to take quantity(and who knows one way or another) over quality, you don't think the Brewers couldn't have beat that offer pretty easily with some A and AA guys that probably weren't going to be a part of the Crew's future anyway?? I thought the Cubs got away cheap.

 

The other reason you don't wait to make a deal is it gives other teams(cubs specifically), to swoop in at the last minute at steal them out from under you. Now you didn't get the player and your main competitor just got even better, at probably the cost of a few pieces the Cubs weren't going to be needing anyway. You snooze you lose. Does that mean overpay?? No.

 

Let's take Justin Verlander for example..now, the THEORY is, if a team is willing to absorb most of Verlander's contract, it's thought you could get away with lessor prospects and probably get Wilson and maybe Kinsler too. That seems like a deal the Crew should make, don't you?? Why would Stearns be concerned about the $$?? Like Mark A told him.."I will worry about paying the bills, do what you need to do".

 

I think you are drastically underestimating the value of those 2 guys, especially Jimenez. He is rated extremely highly by anyone who has seen him play, and his numbers are fantastic. He's steamrolling the minor leagues and has a very real chance to be a star.

 

The cubs are setting themselves up to crash HARD in 4 or 5 years with another full scale rebuild. Epstein will surely bolt right before that happens just like in Boston. Most people on this board don't want to see that happen, and we know we can't afford to overpay in a trade as easily as the cubs can. Our margin for error is much more slim.

 

As far as verlander goes, I would advocate for a trade there more so than for gray, but again it depends on cost. Keep in mind though, taking on all that salary will limit our ability to spend in free agency down the road. So the deal has to be right. Stearns can't be reckless, and I have full faith he won't be.

[Brewcrewin07]

DS is so scared to make a trade he traded the fan favorite (Lucroy) and probably the 2nd fan favorite (Gomez) away last year. Man do you sound foolish. I think they should be a bit quicker with the aggression if we ARE going to make a deal but good lord, save the bashing for Ted T later this year where it rightfully belongs.

 

He was selling then...that's always easier to do..when it comes to buying though...he hasn't really been in this position before...it's a different ball game. You have ot have the stomach/kahunas for it.

[superfly]

DS is so scared to make a trade he traded the fan favorite (Lucroy) and probably the 2nd fan favorite (Gomez) away last year. Man do you sound foolish. I think they should be a bit quicker with the aggression if we ARE going to make a deal but good lord, save the bashing for Ted T later this year where it rightfully belongs.

 

He was selling then...that's always easier to do..when it comes to buying though...he hasn't really been in this position before...it's a different ball game. You have ot have the stomach/kahunas for it.

 

In my opinion the trade for Sonny Gray (or comperable) decision rests on whether Mark A is going to pony up the big $ for a guy such as Darvish/Verlander etc. Gray is not a #1 but he would be a great #2 or #3 for us.

[adambr2]

DS is so scared to make a trade he traded the fan favorite (Lucroy) and probably the 2nd fan favorite (Gomez) away last year. Man do you sound foolish. I think they should be a bit quicker with the aggression if we ARE going to make a deal but good lord, save the bashing for Ted T later this year where it rightfully belongs.

 

He was selling then...that's always easier to do..when it comes to buying though...he hasn't really been in this position before...it's a different ball game. You have ot have the stomach/kahunas for it.

 

So its easier to trade away established, beloved longtime players than it is to trade away unknown prospects? Not quite sure I follow your logic here. Seems that it would be the other way around, if anything.

 

It seems like you're just kind of making it up as you go. You're coming across, as others have said, as a bitter, angry and illogical talk radio caller. I get that you're frustrated, we all are after this last week, but your criticisms of Stearns are just so over the top. If he hadn't gone out and found previous little-known guys like Shaw, Thames, and Anderson, all while rebuilding what was a broken farm system, we wouldn't even be in this position to be arguing about buying or selling.

 

He's done a phenomenal job. That's pretty unanimous, and I'm kind of in awe really that anyone would even debate that.

[brewmann04]

I am sure DS is out there trying but wont be Foolish in making a deal big difference than scared.

[paul253]

As far as verlander goes, I would advocate for a trade there more so than for gray, but again it depends on cost. Keep in mind though, taking on all that salary will limit our ability to spend in free agency down the road. So the deal has to be right. Stearns can't be reckless, and I have full faith he won't be.

 

Can I just ask why you'd prefer to trade for the guy that is almost 7 years older, is insanely expensive and having a significantly worse season?

[Eye Black]

From Ken Rosenthal...

 

Sources: #Brewers fading in Sonny Gray discussions.

[bill hAll Star]

As far as verlander goes, I would advocate for a trade there more so than for gray, but again it depends on cost. Keep in mind though, taking on all that salary will limit our ability to spend in free agency down the road. So the deal has to be right. Stearns can't be reckless, and I have full faith he won't be.

 

Can I just ask why you'd prefer to trade for the guy that is almost 7 years older, is insanely expensive and having a significantly worse season?

 

Giving up few good prospects vs many good prospects.

 

Also, to the original post: Taking on Verlander's deal probably won't affect the Brewers' ability to spend too much.

[wildcat2237]

From Ken Rosenthal...

 

Sources: #Brewers fading in Sonny Gray discussions.

 

Thank goodness. The thought of trading away the farm for Gray makes me cringe.

[HighHeat19]

From Ken Rosenthal...

 

Sources: #Brewers fading in Sonny Gray discussions.

 

Thank goodness. The thought of trading away the farm for Gray makes me cringe.

 

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