Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...

[paul253]

By the way I don't believe Grays bat would have been good enough to prevent losing all these games

 

And Junior Guerra's arm has been helping us so much?

 

And people realize we are allowed to make more than one trade right? Just because we trade for Gray doesn't mean we can't get a bat too.

[adambr2]

By the way I don't believe Grays bat would have been good enough to prevent losing all these games

 

And Junior Guerra's arm has been helping us so much?

 

And people realize we are allowed to make more than one trade right? Just because we trade for Gray doesn't mean we can't get a bat too.

 

The point was, that Guerra has 2 starts since the break and we've scored 3 and 1 runs in those games. Unlikely that Gray makes a difference.

 

Which bat are you suggesting?

[paul253]

The point was, that Guerra has 2 starts since the break and we've scored 3 and 1 runs in those games. Unlikely that Gray makes a difference

 

I understand the point. But doesn't basing the decision on only the past few games seem a little shortsighted? We shouldnt trade for Gray and his two plus seasons of control because of offense has been uncharacteristicly bad these last three series?

 

As for what bats I'm suggesting? I'm not really. The only position I see as possibly needing an outside upgrade is second base but with Sogard back that need is lessened in my opinion. We could maybe trade for a veteran utility guy but that's about it as far as I see as need. We just need our guys to come out of their funk. I think sending Broxton down was a good move and if Phillips doesn't work out then you bring Brinson back up.

 

I do think we should add a bullpen are or two though.

[JosephC]

It's funny how far down this thread has fallen given the Brewer's current status. Where's all the Gray supports now???

 

How would you feel now if the Brewer's just gave up Brinson, Hader and a Burnes for this guy???

 

I am not a Gray fan. I am a David Stearns fan however, and looks to be for good reason.

 

I don't think Stearns will make a move for Gray. However, Gray looks like a better fit for the Brewers today (as compared to 7 days ago) than many of the other trade candidates. A weeks ago it would have been perfectly reasonable to trade for a rental or for a controlled back-end starter to try to maintain that 5.5 game lead and hold off the Cubs. I don't think there is any sense in that now. If Stearns is to make a move for a starter now it needs to be a player that has the greatest chance to make a significant impact immediately AND is controlled beyond this season since the Cubs are now heavily favored to win the division. How many other pitchers fit that description, are actually on the market and don't have a huge contract associated with them? Gray is about the only one. So while the same number of starters may be available, I think the pool that makes sense for Milwaukee has shrunk quite considerably.

[FVBrewerFan]

The point was, that Guerra has 2 starts since the break and we've scored 3 and 1 runs in those games. Unlikely that Gray makes a difference

 

I understand the point. But doesn't basing the decision on only the past few games seem a little shortsighted? We shouldnt trade for Gray and his two plus seasons of control because of offense has been uncharacteristicly bad these last three series?

 

Oh, I agree with that. Seems a lot of people have gone from buy mode to sell mode after two bad series. So I agree, if anyone thought they should be buyers at the break, they should still feel that way.

 

I have never thought they should be buyers, so my position hasn't changed. They are not as good as the top teams in any area (Starting pitching, bullpen, hitting) so getting Gray really won't help much. I would have no problem "going for it" if they were closer to the best teams.

 

Instead, I rather have Anderson and Woodruff added to the rotation at some point in August when they're ready.

[A Swing and A Drive]

It's funny how far down this thread has fallen given the Brewer's current status. Where's all the Gray supports now???

 

How would you feel now if the Brewer's just gave up Brinson, Hader and a Burnes for this guy???

 

I am not a Gray fan. I am a David Stearns fan however, and looks to be for good reason.

 

 

So the Brewers tanking for a week has emboldened you as a David Stearns fan?

 

I simply can't find one proposal in this thread that included all of Brinson, Hader and Burnes.

 

With that being said, I still think Sonny Gray (or an equivelant controllable starter) is a Brewer by this time next week.

 

I think Stearns realizes this is the perfect time to trade some of his prospect OF depth and turn them into a good, controllable starter before...

 

A. Some of them lose preceived value (before they turn into Coulter/Roache-esque pumpkins)

B. More are ready for the Majors then there is room on 25 or even 40 man roster

(example: no room on Brewers 2018 opening day outfield for Brinson, Phillips AND Santana as Braun is not going anywhere)

[FVBrewerFan]

Why is there not room for Braun, Santana, Brinson, and Phillips? Plenty of ABs to go around, especially with Braun missing so many games. Plus PH every day, DH at times, etc.

 

I don't buy the argument one has to be traded because there's no room. Cordell is fine staying in AAA, and Coulter would never stick for a year with anyone if he was a Rule 5 pick.

[HighHeat19]

Phillips and Santana can easily be a lefty/righty platoon in center next year. Domingo in right and Braun in left. Braun's history says he will miss games. Plenty of opportunity for all 4.

[paul253]

Why is there not room for Braun, Santana, Brinson, and Phillips

 

Well there is also Broxton. I imagine they don't want to just give up on him now. And while Cordell can be sent to the minors that doesn't really do anyone any good. I imagine we didn't select him as the PTBNL just so he could be minor league depth.

 

No matter how you look at it the Brewers have a logjam in the outfield. Now is the time to do something about it before the prospects start to lose their value. It also helps that we are still in contention for a playoff spot.

[paul253]

Phillips and Santana can easily be a lefty/righty platoon in center next year.

 

I'm looking at Santana's splits this season and trying to understand why on earth he should be platooned.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Phillips and Santana can easily be a lefty/righty platoon in center next year. Domingo in right and Braun in left. Braun's history says he will miss games. Plenty of opportunity for all 4.

 

Domingo Santana does not need to be a platoon player, IMHO. Neither should Lewis Brinson.

 

It's also much, much easier to find 4th and 5th veteran Free Agent OFers who can be signed on one-year cheap deals then it is to sign young, front end of the rotation type starting pitchers (they often require long-tern, expensive, risky deals i.e. Jordan Zimmermann).

[FVBrewerFan]

Why is there not room for Braun, Santana, Brinson, and Phillips

 

Well there is also Broxton. I imagine they don't want to just give up on him now. And while Cordell can be sent to the minors that doesn't really do anyone any good. I imagine we didn't select him as the PTBNL just so he could be minor league depth.

 

No matter how you look at it the Brewers have a logjam in the outfield. Now is the time to do something about it before the prospects start to lose their value. It also helps that we are still in contention for a playoff spot.

 

It's always a gamble. Is value for guys like Brinson, Phillips, Ray, Clark, etc. at their peak? We don't know. Chances are, for some yes, others no. That's why there's always a risk of holding onto a guy too long, but also a risk of trading away the guy that turns out to be the stud.

 

That's why I would prefer to have both Phillips and Brinson up to see what we have. Just me, but I want to know. Broxton has had plenty of opportunity, so he can wait in the wings again in AA or be traded. He still has some value. Ditto for Cordell, I like him but the world won't end if he goes back to AA. Nothing wrong with having a little depth there if you run into a long term injury or someone just not performing.

 

But back to my original point, no, I don't think Broxton and Cordell in AAA is a logjam.

[A Swing and A Drive]

How does that famous baseball phrase go again?

 

"You can never have enough outfielders?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wait...

[pacopete4]

It is sort of comical that we are not complaining about having too many good players (or the possibility of good players). I don't think a trade has to happen right now. Even if the depth is there next season and we start the year playing the main four (Braun, Phillips, Brinson, Santana) and they do great and they look like the the greatest combo ever, do that stop us from then trading other OF guys (Broxton, Codrell, etc...)? To make a move, just to make a move would be a bad way to do business.

[FVBrewerFan]

How does that famous baseball phrase go again?

 

"You can never have enough outfielders?"

 

Oh wait...

 

I think the phrase you're looking for is "Don't trade potential 5 tool stud OF with 6 years of control for a #3 starter controlled for 2 years/ 2 months."

[DocLuna7]

How does that famous baseball phrase go again?

 

"You can never have enough outfielders?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wait...

 

Or you could use surplus outfielders to trade for a starting pitcher who doesn't have the injury history of Sonny Gray this off-season instead of rushing into an I'll-conceived rushed deal now.

[Warning Track Power]

I think the phrase you're looking for is "Don't trade potential 5 tool stud OF with 6 years of control for a #3 starter controlled for 2 years/ 2 months."

Agreed. Assuming Anderson and Nelson have turned the corner and this is who they are now, acquiring Gray would make for a nice top 3 but not necessarily in the company of Scherzer/Strasburg or Kershaw/Wood, especially given both the Nationals and Dodgers lineups are also deeper than the Brewers. If Gray cannot be acquired by a depth trade, meaning a trade headlined by Ray/Woodruff/Ortiz/Dubon rather than an elite one headlined by Brinson/Hader, I think the Brewers rightfully should pass.

[brewmann04]

Not trading any of our top 4 pitchers in any deal for Gray

[StearnsFTW]

I really don't care personally if he makes a trade in the next week. As long as it's not as a panic move to try to stay in the race. Which I'm completely confident he'd never do.

 

If the value is there, by all means. But this team simply isn't good enough with or without Sonny Gray to really be a factor in anything. It'd be cool to make the playoffs, but I don't think they'd do anything once they got there.

 

Stick to the plan. I'm pretty sure he will.

[MrTPlush]

Phillips and Santana can easily be a lefty/righty platoon in center next year.

 

I'm looking at Santana's splits this season and trying to understand why on earth he should be platooned.

 

Or more importantly why anyone would put Domingo Santana in CF...he is pretty brutal in RF.

[KeithStone53151]

Phillips and Santana can easily be a lefty/righty platoon in center next year.

 

I'm looking at Santana's splits this season and trying to understand why on earth he should be platooned.

 

Or more importantly why anyone would put Domingo Santana in CF...he is pretty brutal in RF.

 

I'll second that, there is absolutely no reason for Santana to play CF. One of Broxton, Phillips, and Brinson will almost certainly be the primary CF next year while the other 2 or Perez are better defensive options to fill in there than Santana.

[paul253]

Assuming Anderson and Nelson have turned the corner and this is who they are now

 

That is an awfully big assumption. Anderson and Nelson both are pitching significantly better than they ever have. Assuming that that is who they are now is a big big assumption. Not making a move based on that would be a mistake.

 

I'm sorry but I'd argue that if we acquired Gray he'd be our best starting pitcher. People who argue that he is a 3 at best are not doing him justice in my opinion. I think he's a solid 2 when he's at his best and maybes borderline 2-3 in general. That's better than almost all of our starters in general.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Assuming Anderson and Nelson have turned the corner and this is who they are now

 

That is an awfully big assumption. Anderson and Nelson both are pitching significantly better than they ever have. Assuming that that is who they are now is a big big assumption. Not making a move based on that would be a mistake.

 

I'm sorry but I'd argue that if we acquired Gray he'd be our best starting pitcher. People who argue that he is a 3 at best are not doing him justice in my opinion. I think he's a solid 2 when he's at his best and maybes borderline 2-3 in general. That's better than almost all of our starters in general.

 

Nice post. 100% agree with this.

 

Gray finished 3rd in the AL CY YOUNG Award voting in 2015 and he was just still yet to reach his ceiling IMO prior to his 2016 injury. Still believe he he has the potential to become a true ACE very soon.

[KeithStone53151]

Assuming Anderson and Nelson have turned the corner and this is who they are now

 

That is an awfully big assumption. Anderson and Nelson both are pitching significantly better than they ever have. Assuming that that is who they are now is a big big assumption. Not making a move based on that would be a mistake.

 

I'm sorry but I'd argue that if we acquired Gray he'd be our best starting pitcher. People who argue that he is a 3 at best are not doing him justice in my opinion. I think he's a solid 2 when he's at his best and maybes borderline 2-3 in general. That's better than almost all of our starters in general.

 

Nice post. 100% agree with this.

 

So you think we should make a trade for what according to you is a #2/3 starting pitcher, so he can be the best pitcher in our rotation and that will be enough to make a playoff run? If you really think that low of both Nelson and Anderson, I would think you'd be advocating to do nothing as even adding Gray wouldn't be remotely enough to stay in the race.

 

Both Nelson and Anderson have made measurable improvements to their stuff since last year, and Nelson has made significant command improvements which will admittedly be tough to know whether that part will stick around. Seeing improved results based solely on their improved stuff shouldn't be surprising.

 

Part of the reason I am as anti-Gray as I am is that I don't think he'd be enough. I think his stuff right now is that of a #3 that plays up due to command/pitchability. I'm not confident in him maintaining that stuff for much longer. If we are going to make a run, it's going to be due to the offense catching fire again down the stretch. 1 starting pitcher won't be enough.

[HighHeat19]

Gray is a #3 on a non playoff team. #4 on a playoff team. And a #5 on a World Series team.