Keston Hiura

[A Swing and A Drive]

I think you guys are selling him a little short comparing him to Wade Boggs, Craig Biggio and Jose Altuve.

 

I think Honus Wagner is a better comp.

[OnTheBlack]

If Hiura turned out to be as good as Ian Kinsler that would be pretty dang fantastic.

 

Still can't believe the Rangers traded him for Fielder.

 

 

I can. It really wasn't an unevan trade at the time. When Prince was traded to Texas he had missed 1 game in the previous 5 seasons and was coming off a two years run in Detriot in which he slashed 295/.387/.491 and an OPS+ of 136 while playing in every single game. He was also two years younger.

 

Kinsler was two years older than Fielder and posted a slash line of .256/.340/.449 OPS+ of 107. Not exactly a shock that Fielder was the better hitter, but it also looked like Kinsler was on the decline. Meanwhile the Rangers were absolutely loaded with middle infielders at the time. They had an all star at SS in Andrus and it looked like Profar might force him to move, not to mention they had Odor and Sardinas who were both highly touted middle IF prospects(Profar would get hurt and miss most of the year while Odor would start in 2014 and struggle).

 

Texas at the time was a contender, they looked like they had a deep pitching staff and it looked like plugging Fielder into the lineup would be the perfect fit.

 

Plus Detroit sent a sizeable chunk of cash to Texas along with Fielder(30 million).

 

Bottom line, Texas was on the verge of a WS, they swapped out Kinsler at 15 per and Berkman 10 million and actually cut their payroll taking back 18 million for Prince and the minimum for Profar.

There was little reason to think that Kinsler would thrive in Detriot while the games top prospect(and a guy who name was mentioned among guys like Trout, Harper and Machado) would end up missing two full seasons with injuries and that Prince would get hurt, come back and put up all star numbers again before finally suffering a career ending injury. Not to mention, at the time they traded Kinsler, there weren't a lot of teams that wanted him.

 

This was a trade that made a lot of sense at the time(also for the Tigers who were playing Cabrera at 3rd and needed to sign him and try to sign Scherzer in the next few years) and the Rangers who needed a big bat and tried to sign Fielder in free agency...and again believed actually had an upgrade in the minors...as did many others.

[OnTheBlack]

I wonder if Hiura could play shortstop or third... I'd like to see if he could fit across the field.

 

 

I don't think anyone really has any idea what he can do defensively right now. He was the DH all year, including for Team USA to protect his arm in his draft year. His arm is apparently healed and he's a good athlete.

 

Honestly though, my guess is if the Brewers are playing him at SS or 3rd base in the near future, things aren't going that well for him and they're trying to improve his value by seeing if he can handle those positions.

 

If his arm is healthy...and it sounds like it is, and if he's as good of a hitter as the scouts all said, he should sail through the system. Playing him anywhere other than 2nd/LF would only slow down that progress.

 

As to whether he could...again, nobody has seen him throw and really knows. A lot of people have opinions, but most of those are based on other opinions of people who haven't watched him play defensively in a while...and probably didn't even watch him play much then as he wasn't much of a prospect coming out of HS. So flat out dismissing the idea is just guessing(as I am). But really, the best question would be why? If he can be a elite hitter for the Brewers at 2nd base....all the better. No reason to make a blue chip prospect move.

[Austin Tatious]

Does anyone have a good sense of his arm strength when healthy? If we send him to left, is he as bad as Khris Davis' noodle arm out there?

 

He does have top of the order hitting potential.

 

I still like Isan Diaz at second anyway.

[MrTPlush]

I think you guys are selling him a little short comparing him to Wade Boggs, Craig Biggio and Jose Altuve.

 

I think Honus Wagner is a better comp.

 

Haha seriously though.

 

On another note that Fielder/Kinsler trade was terrible. That looked terrible for Texas immediately and that is exactly how it ended up. Saying Fielder played so many games the 5 previous years is picking stats to fit your argument. The guy was fat and had a body destined for failure at 30. Texas lucked out that he got so hurt he couldn't play so insured saved them.

[clancyphile]

I wonder if Hiura could play shortstop or third... I'd like to see if he could fit across the field.

 

 

I don't think anyone really has any idea what he can do defensively right now. He was the DH all year, including for Team USA to protect his arm in his draft year. His arm is apparently healed and he's a good athlete.

 

Honestly though, my guess is if the Brewers are playing him at SS or 3rd base in the near future, things aren't going that well for him and they're trying to improve his value by seeing if he can handle those positions.

 

If his arm is healthy...and it sounds like it is, and if he's as good of a hitter as the scouts all said, he should sail through the system. Playing him anywhere other than 2nd/LF would only slow down that progress.

 

As to whether he could...again, nobody has seen him throw and really knows. A lot of people have opinions, but most of those are based on other opinions of people who haven't watched him play defensively in a while...and probably didn't even watch him play much then as he wasn't much of a prospect coming out of HS. So flat out dismissing the idea is just guessing(as I am). But really, the best question would be why? If he can be a elite hitter for the Brewers at 2nd base....all the better. No reason to make a blue chip prospect move.

 

It's about adding options. If Hiura can play 3B, that means you can replace Shaw (directly) or Thames (indirectly). If Hiura moves up as fast as folks here expect, why not? If Hiura plays some shortstop, then the Crew has insurance in the case that Arcia's hot streak is just a flash, and he reverts to the sub-.700 OPS hitter he was before June.

 

If Hiura is as good a hitter as people here think he is, I bet he could be plugged in just about anywhere on the field. I think too big a deal is being made about defense sometimes. If Hiura posts Wade Boggs-like numbers, stick him at third, short, or even right. Just get his bat in the lineup.

[Eye Black]

Does anyone have a good sense of his arm strength when healthy? If we send him to left, is he as bad as Khris Davis' noodle arm out there?

The most definitive answer I have seen to this question was provided by colbyjack in post #122 of the Draft Pick Discussion Thread, LINK.

 

The part of colbyjack's post pertaining to Hiura's arm is copied here...

 

I've never seen Hiura's arm, but he threw 77 mph across the diamond in HS (which is well below average) at one of our events, so I doubt it got that much better.

The "event" he is referring to is a Perfect Game showcase event.

 

Based on that it isn't likely we ever see him on the left side of the infield.

[Brewer Fever]

It's about adding options. If Hiura can play 3B, that means you can replace Shaw (directly) or Thames (indirectly). If Hiura moves up as fast as folks here expect, why not? If Hiura plays some shortstop, then the Crew has insurance in the case that Arcia's hot streak is just a flash, and he reverts to the sub-.700 OPS hitter he was before June.

 

If Hiura is as good a hitter as people here think he is, I bet he could be plugged in just about anywhere on the field. I think too big a deal is being made about defense sometimes. If Hiura posts Wade Boggs-like numbers, stick him at third, short, or even right. Just get his bat in the lineup.

 

Please just stop. Please don't make this your next crusade and repeat the notion 1000 times. His arm is not strong enough to play on the left side of the diamond. And that's without the injury that almost put him under the knife.

 

Also, defense matters.

[colbyjack]

Hiura can't play SS or 3B. 2B might be a stretch to some people, but he's a bat-first prospect, and that IMO is not a bad thing (quite the opposite). And Jeff Kent is probably the most apt comparison I can think of.

 

Or Rogers Hornsby...Honus Wagner is probably a little too ambitious .

[DHonks]

I think you guys are selling him a little short comparing him to Wade Boggs, Craig Biggio and Jose Altuve.

 

I think Honus Wagner is a better comp.

 

Haha seriously though.

 

On another note that Fielder/Kinsler trade was terrible. That looked terrible for Texas immediately and that is exactly how it ended up. Saying Fielder played so many games the 5 previous years is picking stats to fit your argument. The guy was fat and had a body destined for failure at 30. Texas lucked out that he got so hurt he couldn't play so insured saved them.

 

I thought it was a steal for Texas at first. They got a younger, more productive player. His 2015 was a terrific year in a dead ball era. The Rangers may have had concerns about his weight (being the heaviest MLB player ever under 6'), but they had no way of knowing his spine would give out . Most would have expected strong seasons until age 35, but injuries derailed his career

[liveforoctober]

 

It's about adding options. If Hiura can play 3B, that means you can replace Shaw (directly) or Thames (indirectly). If Hiura moves up as fast as folks here expect, why not? If Hiura plays some shortstop, then the Crew has insurance in the case that Arcia's hot streak is just a flash, and he reverts to the sub-.700 OPS hitter he was before June.

 

If Hiura is as good a hitter as people here think he is, I bet he could be plugged in just about anywhere on the field. I think too big a deal is being made about defense sometimes. If Hiura posts Wade Boggs-like numbers, stick him at third, short, or even right. Just get his bat in the lineup.

 

Why don't we just stick him in the rotation then? His bat will get in the lineup and we can replace Guerra or Davies..

[Humans Need Water]

Am I the only person that watches videos on guys? As I stated earlier he's a 2b and nothing else. He's a hitter; that's what he does. He's a pretty decent athlete and will be fine moving around and fielding; his arm is his biggest limitation. It's 2b and only 2b, which is fine because he's a 2b!! If he hits to his potential then it doesn't matter in the end.

 

(fast forward to the 1:50 mark) - HS

 

(first 25sec) - college

[homer]

Am I the only person that watches videos on guys?

 

No

[Humans Need Water]

Am I the only person that watches videos on guys?

 

No

Could have fooled me. People here tend to never describe anything specific in the game (mechanically, etc) rather just cite analytics. Hence watching video. Or games for that matter

[homer]

Am I the only person that watches videos on guys?

 

No

Could have fooled me. People here tend to never describe anything specific in the game (mechanically, etc) rather just cite analytics. Hence watching video. Or games for that matter

 

Plenty of people in the draft threads commented on his video/mechanics.

 

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=35361&start=40

[Humans Need Water]

I think you guys are selling him a little short comparing him to Wade Boggs, Craig Biggio and Jose Altuve.

 

I think Honus Wagner is a better comp.

 

Haha seriously though.

 

On another note that Fielder/Kinsler trade was terrible. That looked terrible for Texas immediately and that is exactly how it ended up. Saying Fielder played so many games the 5 previous years is picking stats to fit your argument. The guy was fat and had a body destined for failure at 30. Texas lucked out that he got so hurt he couldn't play so insured saved them.

A body destined for failure at 30? Then how did he manage to become an AS and 13th in MVP voting at 31yrs old posting 305/378/841 after having neck surgery the year prior? His career didn't end because of his weight and that's a fact. He was a big dude yet was still a pretty decent athlete overall, not just because of his size. A better athlete than the vast majority of this board probably, including me. He'd still be playing today if he didn't have his cervical fusions.

 

It's not cherry picking to fit a narrative when you're saying the previous 5yrs before his neck injury he missed 1 game. How in the world was TX supposed to know he'd have neck surgery his first year with them when he missed 1 game the previous 5yrs and never missed more than 5 games in a season going back 8yrs? Durability is a massive plus and he was absolutely durable. If he was as fat as you imply then it would be impossible for him to play the field for 157-162 games over 8 straight years at the MLB level.

[82brewcrew82]

I think he should catch.

[brewmann04]

when he able to throw should be intresting to see

[And That]

People here

We really need to have a "People here..." Hall of Fame. While almost anything that follows those words is by nature pretty ridiculous, there have been some gems over the years. Where's Hoffy when you need him?

[CheezWizHed]

Am I the only person that watches videos on guys?

 

No

Could have fooled me. People here tend to never describe anything specific in the game (mechanically, etc) rather just cite analytics. Hence watching video. Or games for that matter

 

[sarcasm]Personally, I think he should hold his elbow higher. More like Corey Hart....[/sarcasm]

 

Just remember that save for a couple people here that do make a living from baseball, the rest of us are amateur evaluators having fun...

[OnTheBlack]

I wonder if Hiura could play shortstop or third... I'd like to see if he could fit across the field.

 

 

I don't think anyone really has any idea what he can do defensively right now. He was the DH all year, including for Team USA to protect his arm in his draft year. His arm is apparently healed and he's a good athlete.

 

Honestly though, my guess is if the Brewers are playing him at SS or 3rd base in the near future, things aren't going that well for him and they're trying to improve his value by seeing if he can handle those positions.

 

If his arm is healthy...and it sounds like it is, and if he's as good of a hitter as the scouts all said, he should sail through the system. Playing him anywhere other than 2nd/LF would only slow down that progress.

 

As to whether he could...again, nobody has seen him throw and really knows. A lot of people have opinions, but most of those are based on other opinions of people who haven't watched him play defensively in a while...and probably didn't even watch him play much then as he wasn't much of a prospect coming out of HS. So flat out dismissing the idea is just guessing(as I am). But really, the best question would be why? If he can be a elite hitter for the Brewers at 2nd base....all the better. No reason to make a blue chip prospect move.

 

It's about adding options. If Hiura can play 3B, that means you can replace Shaw (directly) or Thames (indirectly). If Hiura moves up as fast as folks here expect, why not? If Hiura plays some shortstop, then the Crew has insurance in the case that Arcia's hot streak is just a flash, and he reverts to the sub-.700 OPS hitter he was before June.

 

If Hiura is as good a hitter as people here think he is, I bet he could be plugged in just about anywhere on the field. I think too big a deal is being made about defense sometimes. If Hiura posts Wade Boggs-like numbers, stick him at third, short, or even right. Just get his bat in the lineup.

 

 

Or just the position that he already is at least somewhat used to and won't cause him extra time to develop at. Your idea is fine in theory...have guys play multiple positions, but you don't need to do that if a guy really has a bat like Wade Boggs. Or whoever. Then they play the position they're the best at and you move someone else.

 

Plus most guys who come up or are drafted as shortstops don't end up sticking at shortstop in the first place. Again, I'm not saying he definitively can't...I'm just saying why bother? Even if Arcia isn't going to be this good of a hitter, I really can't envision where we gain by having Hirura play short over him given the defensive drop off. And that's based on the very unlikely scenario that he's even capable of making those throws(not even factoring in the range).

 

I'll be the first one to say let someone fail before moving them....like Coulter or Lara or anyone. But you're suggesting he play a position he hasn't played at a time when he just avoided Tommy John surgery and one that puts more stress on your arm than any position other than pitcher or catcher.

 

So..again, if that happens, if they try him at SS or 3rd...my bet is that he'll be in his 2nd or 3rd time around at AAA and he'll have struggled in his call up's to that point and the Brewers are trying to salvage his career as a utility player. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense to force that onto him. He could potentially be our 2nd basemen by 2019. If they play around with him that won't happen. And Shaw and Arcia will still be around..as will Thames and Aguilar. Not that you develop a top 10 picked based on those factors anyway.

[OnTheBlack]

Am I the only person that watches videos on guys? As I stated earlier he's a 2b and nothing else. He's a hitter; that's what he does. He's a pretty decent athlete and will be fine moving around and fielding; his arm is his biggest limitation. It's 2b and only 2b, which is fine because he's a 2b!! If he hits to his potential then it doesn't matter in the end.

 

(fast forward to the 1:50 mark) - HS

 

(first 25sec) - college

 

 

I gotta say, as condescending as your comment was, "watching video" of a player does not equate to watching a roughly 90 seconds of pre-game IF practice...especially when one of them is him in HS when he wasn't even a prospect. I've had to watch video on players. Calling this watching video is akin to watching the Packers do pre-game blocking drills....or actually watching the guy the Packers drafted do pre-game shadow blocking drills from when he was a 2 star recruit in High School. And all of that aside, watching video is far less useful in baseball than almost any other sport when you need to actually watch a player live. Just searching for a player on youtube is about as far from definitive as you can get. I could piece together a youtube video from Braun's rookie year that would make you think he's Manny Machado.

 

That aside, I really don't know what exactly what you gain from watching THIS video? And again, I don't believe they should even bother trying him at SS or 3rd as I don't see the gain at this point. But that's because he's played 2nd and was on the fence and could have gone either way and had TJ surgery. Not because I have access to some grainy youtube video.

[OnTheBlack]

I think you guys are selling him a little short comparing him to Wade Boggs, Craig Biggio and Jose Altuve.

 

I think Honus Wagner is a better comp.

 

Haha seriously though.

 

On another note that Fielder/Kinsler trade was terrible. That looked terrible for Texas immediately and that is exactly how it ended up. Saying Fielder played so many games the 5 previous years is picking stats to fit your argument. The guy was fat and had a body destined for failure at 30. Texas lucked out that he got so hurt he couldn't play so insured saved them.

 

I thought it was a steal for Texas at first. They got a younger, more productive player. His 2015 was a terrific year in a dead ball era. The Rangers may have had concerns about his weight (being the heaviest MLB player ever under 6'), but they had no way of knowing his spine would give out . Most would have expected strong seasons until age 35, but injuries derailed his career

 

 

Absolutely agree with everything you said and add in the things I mentioned, ie, Kinsler looked like he was declining, was older, Texas was looking to compete and putting a huge LH'ed bat at that time looked like it could have turned them into a dominant lineup AND they could have DH'ed Prince moving forward and also looked like they were gonna replace Kinsler with an better player at 2nd(Profar was considered a can't miss prospect and Odor, who ended up playing that year looked like a young stud as well). So they likely would have had to eat some of Kinsler's contract in order to trade him at that point...now it looks like a steal.

 

And as far as Prince having a body "destined to fail by 30," that was the knock on Prince since he was 18. He had a body that was destined for injury his whole career. The reason his games played the previous 5 years(actually his entire career) is relevant is because all the assumptions made about Prince ended up being completely and utterly false. He proved them all wrong. He had a very unfortunate fluke injury. That's it. And if you have a chance to finally win a WS after losing a couple straight by adding one of the top LH'ed power bats in the game in a LH'ed hitters paradise like Texas....that seems like a good deal.

 

Using hingsight can make almost every trade look stupid and nearly every move look bad for that matter. At the time, both teams got rid of a contract they wanted to or needed to and one team thought they would be substantially better....

[nate82]

Not to go even further off topic but the Prince trade for the Rangers made perfect sense for them then. The Rangers had Odor and Profar in the minors. At that time Profar was knocking on the door and was ready with Odor following very close behind.

 

Trading Kinsler was the right move for the Rangers then and it is now. Unfortunately Prince got a neck injury that had nothing to do with his weight. This is a more of a see I was right Prince would get injured type of an argument.

[reillymcshane]

Am I the only person that watches videos on guys?

I prefer cat and dog videos. Baby animals of any kind are usually pretty good too.

 

I like this one a lot - goat babies in pajamas! Enjoy.