Deadline approaching-opinions incoming

[JosephC]

Quintana's stock has fallen a little bit because he hasn't been a plus-plus performer this season but he's still be a very consistent performer and even in a mediocre season he's still on pace to post a 2.2 WAR. The price-tag on Quintana should still be sky-high.

 

I think it would take something like Lewis Brinson, Josh Hader, Brett Phillips and Freddy Peralta to land Quintana. And I think Brinson and Hader are both necessary pieces to getting a deal done. Brinson because he's the top bat in the system. Hader over other pitching contenders because the White Sox system lacks top-end lefty pitching.

 

I can see dreaming about Sonny Gray because he was terrible last year and like Quintana hasn't been great this year. Fair or not, Gray's lack of size will play a part in what teams are willing to offer. A team might be able to get Gray at a reasonable price if the A's decide now is the time to move him and a few other attractive starters are put on the market.

[MadThinker88]

Quintana's stock has fallen a little bit because he hasn't been a plus-plus performer this season but he's still be a very consistent performer and even in a mediocre season he's still on pace to post a 2.2 WAR. The price-tag on Quintana should still be sky-high.

.....

 

Perhaps his value has dropped in the eyes of others, but those on the South Side of Chicago do not feel his value has dropped one bit. In fact with the pending trade deadline, they want even more at this point (compared to last off season). They want a kings ransom.

 

ChiSox are in no hurry to deal Quintana. Should he pitch even better in July, the price tag goes up even more.

[Humans Need Water]

Using the "Ray is a light hitting prospect" approach, I guess it's probably just best the Brewers just give up on all their minor league bats and just "go for it" right now.

 

Ray is 22 years old in advanced A ball and his current slash line is .251/.327/.389/.716. Terrible.

 

Erceg is 22 years old in advanced A ball and his current slash line is .248/.289/.376/.665. Wow he's even worse than Ray...probably has little chance to even make a slight impact at AAA.

 

Diaz is 1 year younger at 21 but his current slash line in advanced A ball is .216/.317/.375/.691. Looks like another excellent sell high candidate for now, before other teams figure out this guy really can't hit.

 

Dubon is 22 years old and was one level higher but his slash line in AA wasn't exactly eye-popping either. .276/.338/.351/.689. He was bumped up to the hitter's paradise in Colorado Springs and has only OPS'ed .613 in a limited sample size there.

 

Speaking of Colorado Springs, how much has Brinson/Phillips/Cordell "played up" from the obvious benefit of hitting in that environment? On the road in /AA this year Phillips has slashed .258/.313/.477/.790. Sure the SLG looks good but how will that .313 OBP work in the majors? He didn't look very good at the plate in his brief time in Milwaukee. Cordell has slashed .230/.291/.381/.673 on the road this season. Already 25 years old...he's starting to look pretty worthless. Brinson on the road, .247/.333/.452/.785...alright that's a little better but a top 20 prospect for all of MLB? He looked especially bad in his brief time with the Brewers.

Am I reading this right - you're saying we should start trading the aforementioned prospects while they're still highly ranked/valued because that's not going to be the case moving forward in the short-and-long term?

[JosephC]

Using the "Ray is a light hitting prospect" approach, I guess it's probably just best the Brewers just give up on all their minor league bats and just "go for it" right now.

 

Ray is 22 years old in advanced A ball and his current slash line is .251/.327/.389/.716. Terrible.

 

Erceg is 22 years old in advanced A ball and his current slash line is .248/.289/.376/.665. Wow he's even worse than Ray...probably has little chance to even make a slight impact at AAA.

 

Diaz is 1 year younger at 21 but his current slash line in advanced A ball is .216/.317/.375/.691. Looks like another excellent sell high candidate for now, before other teams figure out this guy really can't hit.

 

Dubon is 22 years old and was one level higher but his slash line in AA wasn't exactly eye-popping either. .276/.338/.351/.689. He was bumped up to the hitter's paradise in Colorado Springs and has only OPS'ed .613 in a limited sample size there.

 

Speaking of Colorado Springs, how much has Brinson/Phillips/Cordell "played up" from the obvious benefit of hitting in that environment? On the road in /AA this year Phillips has slashed .258/.313/.477/.790. Sure the SLG looks good but how will that .313 OBP work in the majors? He didn't look very good at the plate in his brief time in Milwaukee. Cordell has slashed .230/.291/.381/.673 on the road this season. Already 25 years old...he's starting to look pretty worthless. Brinson on the road, .247/.333/.452/.785...alright that's a little better but a top 20 prospect for all of MLB? He looked especially bad in his brief time with the Brewers.

Am I reading this right - you're saying we should start trading the aforementioned prospects while they're still highly ranked/valued because that's not going to be the case moving forward in the short-and-long term?

 

No. Just baffled by the idea that Ray is a mediocre prospect and a draft bust because he isn't currently OPS'ing .800+. If Ray isn't much of a prospect because of his current .251/.327/.389/.716 slash line, then the Brewers don't really have many legitimate hitting prospects in their system.

[Humans Need Water]

Using the "Ray is a light hitting prospect" approach, I guess it's probably just best the Brewers just give up on all their minor league bats and just "go for it" right now.

 

Ray is 22 years old in advanced A ball and his current slash line is .251/.327/.389/.716. Terrible.

 

Erceg is 22 years old in advanced A ball and his current slash line is .248/.289/.376/.665. Wow he's even worse than Ray...probably has little chance to even make a slight impact at AAA.

 

Diaz is 1 year younger at 21 but his current slash line in advanced A ball is .216/.317/.375/.691. Looks like another excellent sell high candidate for now, before other teams figure out this guy really can't hit.

 

Dubon is 22 years old and was one level higher but his slash line in AA wasn't exactly eye-popping either. .276/.338/.351/.689. He was bumped up to the hitter's paradise in Colorado Springs and has only OPS'ed .613 in a limited sample size there.

 

Speaking of Colorado Springs, how much has Brinson/Phillips/Cordell "played up" from the obvious benefit of hitting in that environment? On the road in /AA this year Phillips has slashed .258/.313/.477/.790. Sure the SLG looks good but how will that .313 OBP work in the majors? He didn't look very good at the plate in his brief time in Milwaukee. Cordell has slashed .230/.291/.381/.673 on the road this season. Already 25 years old...he's starting to look pretty worthless. Brinson on the road, .247/.333/.452/.785...alright that's a little better but a top 20 prospect for all of MLB? He looked especially bad in his brief time with the Brewers.

Am I reading this right - you're saying we should start trading the aforementioned prospects while they're still highly ranked/valued because that's not going to be the case moving forward in the short-and-long term?

 

No. Just baffled by the idea that Ray is a mediocre prospect and a draft bust because he isn't currently OPS'ing .800+. If Ray isn't much of a prospect because of his current .251/.327/.389/.716 slash line, then the Brewers don't really have many legitimate hitting prospects in their system.

lol that's what I thought you meant but didn't want to assume. And I 100% agree with you. It's that same mentality from the overwhelming majority who completely disregarded Nottingham's talent and ability solely based on one season's production (aka numbers on the surface) and the past 9wks he's been nothing short of excellent offensively (just happens to be 2-6, double, 4rbi thus far today) and has been a complete 180 defensively all season.

[Humans Need Water]

If I'm giving up Brinson plus others it better be a player with an ERA below 4.00. I'm just not sold on Quintana. I am not big on Lefty's unless they can bring 95+ Heat. Quintana sits around 91 mph and I think he is going to get rocked at Miller Park. When you pitch at MP your going to need power pitching with filth to be worth a big trade to give up your top prospects.

 

I think Stearns is going to continue to roll with what he has. I would believe the brewers would like to see what Woodruff can do first at the major league level before making any deals.

 

I'm all for a farm purge if we can send some mid level prospects like Coulter/Clark/Cordell. But I would say no at all costs to Brinson, Ray, Dubon, Ortiz for sure.

 

A lefty that throws 95 is equivalent to a righty that throws 100. Look how dominating Hader is a 94. Quintana had a 1.78 ERA in June. He got off to a slow start this year which was in part attributed to all the trade talk surrounding him. He's been remarkably consistent his entire career and is one of the best LH pitchers in the game over the past 5 seasons. Guaranteed Rate Park is a launching pad. Compares to Miller Park as a hitter's park. Quintana's got excellent stuff by the way. His career K rate is a solid 7.5 per 9 and this year it's 8.9 per 9. Over his career, Quintana has been the victim of poor run support. But he's touched 200 innings for 4 straight years and he's on pace to get close to that this year.

 

I'd do Ray and Derby in a heartbeat. Not sure that would get it done but Ray and Woodruff might and I'd do that too. Brewers have a boatload of OF. Coulter and Cordell offer would get laughed at. Only guys I'd consider untouchable are Brinson, Ortiz and Burnes.

 

Quintana would make this team a threat not just to get to playoffs in 2017 and 2018 but he'd give them a shot at advancing teaming with Nelson and hopefully a healthy Anderson in the playoffs.

 

As Mark Sweeney said during yesterday's game. Rebuild is one thing but they need to "honor the guys on this roster that put them in this position." Adding a quality arm like Quintana, says to this team, "We believe in you guys". Surrendering 2 of your better prospects and possibly a 3rd marginal one is a cheap price for a guy who's a 21.5 WAR player over his first 6 seasons.

 

Worst case is they don't contend in 2018 and you deal Quintana a year from and likely get 50% of what you paid to get him back.

Everyone on the planet would do Ray/Derby except the team that's getting them. Brinson is a must + 1 of Hader/Ortiz/Woodruff + 1-2 more depending on certain factors (one being who is part of the 2nd group listed). They want something close to their Sale return for a pitcher that definitely isn't as good as Sale. I could care less what Mark Sweeney says. I can make the argument that Stearns sitting on his hands doing nothing says to the team you've been in 1st place through 4 months and we believe you can continue to stay there the rest of the way. Instead of adding Quintana and losing several top tier prospects the Brewers could always trade Garza (he's the most logical for several reasons) and insert Woodruff. I don't know what other people see in Woodruff but I see a guy who has the talent to absolutely mirror Quintana's career averages except with a lower Whip, H9 and higher K9.

[brewcrewdue80]

Ray is a bust in the HR department. If he's going to be a 15HR max guy with a lower OB and struggles to .800 OPS because of both those factors, yeah trade him away. Demi O, Harrison, Phillips, Cordell are all guys who can exceed that output. Draft day the ceiling projection was 30-30 with Ray, but his numbers in the minors for a "top" college hitting pick are 9HRs 28 SBs in 120games with a.318OB. This was the #5 pick last year. He should be doing better than he is somewhere or he isn't better than what the Brewers' organization already has a number of. That's it with him, a safe high floor pick, but he's not getting you 5+ WAR in a given season with .275/.315/.380 numbers. Broxton with his numbers of 13/14 and defense hasn't even earned 1BWAR. Sure his avg is lower but his slg is far higher than Ray's likely ever will be. Trading Ray now may for something that helps this team in a different way is likely better value than he would give his on his own. But I expect the White Sox to understand this and in no way want to headline a deal for Quintana with Ray. But Toronto with my suggestion towards JA Happ I think would work nicely.

[MrTPlush]

Brinson isn't a must to get Quintana. We have plenty of quality prospects where we don't have to give up our #1 guy. I doubt we go after anyone that could garner Brinson, but if we did we could do it with other guys.

[LouisEly]

I think it would take something like Lewis Brinson, Josh Hader, Brett Phillips and Freddy Peralta to land Quintana.

 

I can see dreaming about Sonny Gray because he was terrible last year and like Quintana hasn't been great this year. Fair or not, Gray's lack of size will play a part in what teams are willing to offer. A team might be able to get Gray at a reasonable price if the A's decide now is the time to move him and a few other attractive starters are put on the market.

If that's the price for Quintana, I hang up the phone and talk to the A's about Gray or the Giants about Samardzjia or Moore or the Marlins about Straily or even Volquez.

[reillymcshane]

You know, I understand the desire to make trades - including big trades - but I'm also a bit in the boat of we got this far in this fight with what we brought, so I'm good with finishing it that way.

 

I like our offense, so I don't see the need to mess with that.

 

For starting pitching, Anderson is out, but he'll be back in August (assuming all goes well). I'm happy to see how guys do for the next few weeks. Who knows, maybe someone steps up and really shines. Woodruff will be back this month - maybe he's the guy that steps up.

 

As for relievers, there's Lopez and Suter and Hader and a few others guys. Cool. Just let them play.

 

I'm not adverse to some minor deals (or even a big deal if the price is right) - trading marginal prospects for a reliever or even a starter. Maybe take on some payroll. That's great. I like that flexibility. But I don't want to give up on our young players for a rental or an aging veteran or whomever. Again, I'm not adverse to making a major deal - just has to be at our price.

 

I'm enjoying the club this year. I'm happy to see how they play out - even without making a lot of moves. I can see some tweaks - but I'm good with letting the kids play and rolling the dice. I want this kind of stuff happening every year - not just once a decade.

[paul253]

Let's not overreact and completely destroy the future we've been working so hard to improve. Get a bulllen arm or two and be done with it. I can't believe people are seriously considering trading Brinson or Ortiz or even Ray or Woodruff right now. I'd look for relievers that can get guys out in the 6th and 7th innings and I'd give up mid tier prospects to get them

[rickh150]

Trade some or one of our boatload of minor league outfielders for starting pitching help(Matt Moore?)

Get Hader and Woodruff ready to start games in August.

Look for relief help without giving up much.

[brewcrewdue80]

Let's not overreact and completely destroy the future we've been working so hard to improve. Get a bulllen arm or two and be done with it. I can't believe people are seriously considering trading Brinson or Ortiz or even Ray or Woodruff right now. I'd look for relievers that can get guys out in the 6th and 7th innings and I'd give up mid tier prospects to get them

 

The big idea on those 2 combos is to get Jose Q, who has multiple years in a very affordable contract left. Who has 4 straight years of 200IP and under 3.51 ERA while pitching in the AL. Move him to the NL and getting 2-3 PAs of a pitcher vs a DH will definitely help in his stat maintaining. He's not old and his contract if options picked up ends at age 31. To some or most he's an Ace. Something far better than Ortiz or Woodruff's ceilings called for. He fits the most likely idea if you were to trade for a SP and give up guys like Brinson or Ray with the SPs, at least he comes with 3 more seasons of team control and doesn't cost 20+mil in a year for stats quality pitchers are paid. He's going to garner some team's 2 of their 3 top prospects, maybe top 2 if the third isn't a top 75 prospect.

 

When it comes to Sonny Gray he had 2 and 1/3 seasons of production and now 1 year's worth of starts mediocre. You can control him another 3 years as well, but which pitcher are you getting? 2nd, how expensive will he be if he's already at 3.575mil heading in to Arb years? You have too big of question marks on Gray that only targeting Q makes sense. Because in Q's final team option year he comes to an 11.5mil cost. Gray could be getting 16+mil at that time or under 11mil but only because he was a flameout and you ruined your top prospects years of team control while getting him.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs gave up their top two prospects and filler for Q. That's #8 and 63 currently. Lackey and Arrieta are FAs after the season. They don't really have SPs in the pipeline to join them next season, it'd be in Free Agency which will be far more expensive than Quintana's 11.5mil highest paid year.

 

That is the type of competition you gotta beat in a trade offer. Yankees too who have even bigger prospects and firepower to make a trade.

 

I'd personally give the offer I'm willing to part with and if it happens great, if not I don't force the issue. We've got maybe 10 who could be top 100 prospects at the end of the season though maybe we lose 3 on qualify. We are still in a great position for the future

 

Edit add: Matt Moore would be worth Michael Reed, he's a terrible SP to get. I'm sure Suter could produce to his numbers and definitely Woodruff/Lopez.

[adambr2]

My biggest issue with the article is the insinuation that the White Sox would love no prospect more than Corey Ray. Why? Just because he's a Chicago native and has roots there? Sure, it makes sense to us but we have zero idea of what the White Sox scouting department thinks of Ray as a potential MLB player. Maybe they love him, maybe they wouldn't have even taken him at #10 last year, we have no idea.

 

Not to say he doesn't make sense as part of a potential deal for Quintana, but if the writer has any notions that the White Sox aren't going to pursue better deals just because we're dangling Corey Ray out there, that's silly.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Just to throw some cold water on this, a friendly reminder that we are only halfway through the season and are just 2 games up on the Cubs and would almost certainly be 5+ games back of the 2nd Wild Card if the Cubs overtake us. The safety net of the WC isn't a viable option for us - we would have to be confident in winning the whole division.

 

We're certainly ahead of schedule, but I'd feel much better about parting with future pieces if we were 10 games over .500 at this point. I think we should stay the course.

 

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Ray is a bust in the HR department. If he's going to be a 15HR max guy with a lower OB and struggles to .800 OPS because of both those factors, yeah trade him away. Demi O, Harrison, Phillips, Cordell are all guys who can exceed that output. Draft day the ceiling projection was 30-30 with Ray, but his numbers in the minors for a "top" college hitting pick are 9HRs 28 SBs in 120games with a.318OB. This was the #5 pick last year. He should be doing better than he is somewhere or he isn't better than what the Brewers' organization already has a number of. That's it with him, a safe high floor pick, but he's not getting you 5+ WAR in a given season with .275/.315/.380 numbers. Broxton with his numbers of 13/14 and defense hasn't even earned 1BWAR. Sure his avg is lower but his slg is far higher than Ray's likely ever will be. Trading Ray now may for something that helps this team in a different way is likely better value than he would give his on his own. But I expect the White Sox to understand this and in no way want to headline a deal for Quintana with Ray. But Toronto with my suggestion towards JA Happ I think would work nicely.

You really hate Corey Ray don't you.

[rickh150]

If we could get a starting pitcher that could help us over the next let's say 2 and a half years, we could view that as a next step in the rebuild process, right? Price tag for that is steep, though.

[brewcrewdue80]

Ray is a bust in the HR department. If he's going to be a 15HR max guy with a lower OB and struggles to .800 OPS because of both those factors, yeah trade him away. Demi O, Harrison, Phillips, Cordell are all guys who can exceed that output. Draft day the ceiling projection was 30-30 with Ray, but his numbers in the minors for a "top" college hitting pick are 9HRs 28 SBs in 120games with a.318OB. This was the #5 pick last year. He should be doing better than he is somewhere or he isn't better than what the Brewers' organization already has a number of. That's it with him, a safe high floor pick, but he's not getting you 5+ WAR in a given season with .275/.315/.380 numbers. Broxton with his numbers of 13/14 and defense hasn't even earned 1BWAR. Sure his avg is lower but his slg is far higher than Ray's likely ever will be. Trading Ray now may for something that helps this team in a different way is likely better value than he would give his on his own. But I expect the White Sox to understand this and in no way want to headline a deal for Quintana with Ray. But Toronto with my suggestion towards JA Happ I think would work nicely.

You really hate Corey Ray don't you.

 

Hated Clark too and this season his stats back me up vs rookie. Hernan Perez brings a better OF potential than Ray did/does

 

Can't draft enough Pitching and winners were there for the taking.

 

Let's say 50% of 1st round position do anything in ML. And 40% of Pitchers do anything in ML. But at the deadline it costs not only the 50% that does project to do anything in the ML but 2 more pieces of better than 50% to make the ML. It is annoying that we keep taking OFs in 1st round, and not the top rated ones at that over any SP atop the draft board with top 20 picks. Hitting on one of those SPs helps more than the position player.

[MrTPlush]

How could one possibly know we won't have the WC to fall back on?

[brewmann04]

Listening today DS sounds like he will still be looking to add but will not go off his plan that he started

[MillerParkSouth]

I'm getting a hearty laugh at everyone ready to give up on Ray already.

[sheetskout]

I'm getting a hearty laugh at everyone ready to give up on Ray already.

 

Thought the exact same thing. I still think Ray will be a tremendous ballplayer.

[adambr2]

Internally, is there any chance of Corbin Burnes making the jump all the way to Milwaukee this season? I know he's already very accelerated and its still a short sample but his dominance of A+ and AA this year is just remarkable.

 

It wouldn't be unprecedented for him to skip AAA, especially being Colorado Springs, nor would it be unprecedented for a 22 year old that was drafted as an advanced college arm to make his debut . They've been somewhat aggressive promoting Hader and Woodruff, although those 2 have quite a bit more seasoning in the minors.

[JosephC]

Downgrading Ray's value because of possible (not definite) lack of home run potential seems to be straight out of the Doug Melvin handbook of player evaluation. So what if Ray tops out at 10 home runs per season? If he ends up OPS'ing .350-.360, plays great defense and runs the bases well why couldn't he be another Adam Eaton (average 5.1 WAR per season from 2014-2016) or Starling Marte (average 5.1 WAR per season from 2014-2016)? In those 3 seasons those two players hit a combined total of 61 home runs (Marte had 19 one year), so those players are pretty good examples of 10 home run per season players who are still really valuable to their ballclubs.

[nate82]

Internally, is there any chance of Corbin Burnes making the jump all the way to Milwaukee this season? I know he's already very accelerated and its still a short sample but his dominance of A+ and AA this year is just remarkable.

 

It wouldn't be unprecedented for him to skip AAA, especially being Colorado Springs, nor would it be unprecedented for a 22 year old that was drafted as an advanced college arm to make his debut . They've been somewhat aggressive promoting Hader and Woodruff, although those 2 have quite a bit more seasoning in the minors.

 

I think there is a very good chance he is in Milwaukee this year but the innings limit is going to limit when and for how long. Probably will be a September call up.