Deadline approaching-opinions incoming

[MrTPlush]

As the deadline month starts writers are starting to see the Brewers as a contender. MLB.com has a front page article thinking the Brewers should go big. If anyone sees an article regarding the Brewers feel free to post it. Hoping to get a collection of different looks on what the Brewers should do.

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/239858466/brewers-built-to-contend-for-nl-central-crown/?topicId=27118122

[BigDaddy1974]

Interesting article and a discussion that has to be taking place amongst the Brewers brass. The writer suggests Quintana as a possibility and speculates that Ray, due to his local boy history, might be attractive to the Sox. What do you think it would take to get him? I believe he is under contract until 2020 with the last two years being team options for $10.5 million. He has a very affordable contract.

 

Would Ray, Diaz, and Woodruff, and maybe another piece like a Harrison or Medeiros, get it done or would it take more or would that be too much?

 

What about their closer David Robertson who is under contact through 2018? Could both of them be had? What would that cost? Would it be worth spending the prospects?

 

Just something to chew on.

[superfly]

Interesting article and a discussion that has to be taking place amongst the Brewers brass. The writer suggests Quintana as a possibility and speculates that Ray, due to his local boy history, might be attractive to the Sox. What do you think it would take to get him? I believe he is under contract until 2020 with the last two years being team options for $10.5 million. He has a very affordable contract.

 

Would Ray, Diaz, and Woodruff, and maybe another piece like a Harrison or Medeiros, get it done or would it take more or would that be too much?

 

What about their closer David Robertson who is under contact through 2018? Could both of them be had? What would that cost? Would it be worth spending the prospects?

 

Just something to chew on.

 

I'd do that if that hypothetical situation was real, and then try to extend him beyond his 2019 deal.

[HighHeat19]

If I'm giving up Brinson plus others it better be a player with an ERA below 4.00. I'm just not sold on Quintana. I am not big on Lefty's unless they can bring 95+ Heat. Quintana sits around 91 mph and I think he is going to get rocked at Miller Park. When you pitch at MP your going to need power pitching with filth to be worth a big trade to give up your top prospects.

 

I think Stearns is going to continue to roll with what he has. I would believe the brewers would like to see what Woodruff can do first at the major league level before making any deals.

 

I'm all for a farm purge if we can send some mid level prospects like Coulter/Clark/Cordell. But I would say no at all costs to Brinson, Ray, Dubon, Ortiz for sure.

[BigDaddy1974]

I agree that Stearns will more than likely stick with the guys he has and will look for in house improvements before spending prospects. I agree that I would not look to deal Brinson, Ortiz, and Dubon.

 

The guys I mentioned were guys I believe are somewhat redundant or have some comparable prospects within a level of the minors. I guess I am not really sold on Ray's position within the organization. Is he that much better of a prospect than Phillips or Clark? I guess I would be fine with him being the centerpiece of a Quintana deal, obviously depending on the other pieces that would be necessary.

 

Woodruff would be tough to see go in a trade because he seems to be the closest to coming up and helping the Major a league team. But again I think we have Ortiz fairly close behind him and some others who have been performing well in AAA and AA.

 

Diaz is a frustrating player for me I guess. I had a chance to watch him in person a couple of times last season and I thought he'd go to A+ and just go nuts but he seems to be struggling more than most would have anticipated. Plus is he expendable due to Dubon, Arcia, and Villar?

[Lathund]

I'd stay away from trades for the likes of Quintana. Not because I don't think he'd improve our team, but because there'll be a lot of other teams interested, sparking a bidding war. The top few arms (starters and relievers) available at the trade deadline will always be very expensive, creating a situation where price separates from value. I don't think we are at the point yet where we make these trades, to me they're worth it when your team is just 1-2 pieces away from being a legit WS contender. If the contracts/age of our remaining players would dictate that we only had a 2-3 year window, then absolutely I'd go for a trade like Quintana, and paying a premium then would not be a problem.

 

But we're in a situation where we've over the last two years been in the acquisition phase of a rebuild. We've got plenty of young controllable talent, and a very low payroll. Now we're in the spot where we unexpectedly have a chance at reaching the playoffs, but we're we'd also realistically be tone of the worst team there. So the goal is to improve the team at the deadline, without impacting the rebuilding plan. Someone like Quintana would become a free agent just as we'd be right at our most competitive and would have cost us a lot; it's not really a move that suits us right now IMO.

 

No I think the way to improve right now is through taking on salary for the remainder of 2017, or through 2018. We have room to do so, and as we take on more salary we don't have to give up as much in the way of prospects. Now I don't know the rest of the league well enough to know who would realistically be available, but it's the type of deal we should be looking for. Another option is to do sideways moves. Basically trade away an established player at a position we're strong for prospects, and use prospects to trade for established help at a position we're weak.

 

If I had to guess, I think the way Stearns & Co will go with this is not to look for star players, but to rather improve the bottom of our roster. We don't need an improvement over Nelson/Anderson/Knebel, what we need is to improve the #4-5 spots in the rotation and the middle inning relief.

[JohnBriggs12]

If I'm giving up Brinson plus others it better be a player with an ERA below 4.00. I'm just not sold on Quintana. I am not big on Lefty's unless they can bring 95+ Heat. Quintana sits around 91 mph and I think he is going to get rocked at Miller Park. When you pitch at MP your going to need power pitching with filth to be worth a big trade to give up your top prospects.

 

I think Stearns is going to continue to roll with what he has. I would believe the brewers would like to see what Woodruff can do first at the major league level before making any deals.

 

I'm all for a farm purge if we can send some mid level prospects like Coulter/Clark/Cordell. But I would say no at all costs to Brinson, Ray, Dubon, Ortiz for sure.

 

A lefty that throws 95 is equivalent to a righty that throws 100. Look how dominating Hader is a 94. Quintana had a 1.78 ERA in June. He got off to a slow start this year which was in part attributed to all the trade talk surrounding him. He's been remarkably consistent his entire career and is one of the best LH pitchers in the game over the past 5 seasons. Guaranteed Rate Park is a launching pad. Compares to Miller Park as a hitter's park. Quintana's got excellent stuff by the way. His career K rate is a solid 7.5 per 9 and this year it's 8.9 per 9. Over his career, Quintana has been the victim of poor run support. But he's touched 200 innings for 4 straight years and he's on pace to get close to that this year.

 

I'd do Ray and Derby in a heartbeat. Not sure that would get it done but Ray and Woodruff might and I'd do that too. Brewers have a boatload of OF. Coulter and Cordell offer would get laughed at. Only guys I'd consider untouchable are Brinson, Ortiz and Burnes.

 

Quintana would make this team a threat not just to get to playoffs in 2017 and 2018 but he'd give them a shot at advancing teaming with Nelson and hopefully a healthy Anderson in the playoffs.

 

As Mark Sweeney said during yesterday's game. Rebuild is one thing but they need to "honor the guys on this roster that put them in this position." Adding a quality arm like Quintana, says to this team, "We believe in you guys". Surrendering 2 of your better prospects and possibly a 3rd marginal one is a cheap price for a guy who's a 21.5 WAR player over his first 6 seasons.

 

Worst case is they don't contend in 2018 and you deal Quintana a year from and likely get 50% of what you paid to get him back.

[JohnBriggs12]

If I'm giving up Brinson plus others it better be a player with an ERA below 4.00. I'm just not sold on Quintana. I am not big on Lefty's unless they can bring 95+ Heat. Quintana sits around 91 mph and I think he is going to get rocked at Miller Park. When you pitch at MP your going to need power pitching with filth to be worth a big trade to give up your top prospects.

 

I think Stearns is going to continue to roll with what he has. I would believe the brewers would like to see what Woodruff can do first at the major league level before making any deals.

 

I'm all for a farm purge if we can send some mid level prospects like Coulter/Clark/Cordell. But I would say no at all costs to Brinson, Ray, Dubon, Ortiz for sure.

 

A lefty that throws 95 is equivalent to a righty that throws 100. Look how dominating Hader is a 94. Quintana had a 1.78 ERA in June. He got off to a slow start this year which was in part attributed to all the trade talk surrounding him. He's been remarkably consistent his entire career and is one of the best LH pitchers in the game over the past 5 seasons. Guaranteed Rate Park is a launching pad. Compares to Miller Park as a hitter's park. Quintana's got excellent stuff by the way. His career K rate is a solid 7.5 per 9 and this year it's 8.9 per 9. Over his career, Quintana has been the victim of poor run support. But he's touched 200 innings for 4 straight years and he's on pace to get close to that this year.

 

I'd do Ray and Derby in a heartbeat. Not sure that would get it done but Ray and Woodruff might and I'd do that too. Brewers have a boatload of OF. Coulter and Cordell offer would get laughed at. Only guys I'd consider untouchable are Brinson, Ortiz and Burnes.

 

Quintana would make this team a threat not just to get to playoffs in 2017 and 2018 but he'd give them a shot at advancing teaming with Nelson and hopefully a healthy Anderson in the playoffs.

 

As Mark Sweeney said during yesterday's game. Rebuild is one thing but they need to "honor the guys on this roster that put them in this position." Adding a quality arm like Quintana, says to this team, "We believe in you guys". Surrendering 2 of your better prospects and possibly a 3rd marginal one is a cheap price for a guy who's a 21.5 WAR player over his first 6 seasons.

 

Worst case is they don't contend in 2018 and you deal Quintana a year from and likely get 50% of what you paid to get him back. Either way the syetem is still a strong one, and the major league roster is full of young controllable talent.

[Boomer5]

Ray has not been very good for a premium prospect and advanced bat, but he carries a high prospect rating and was the 5th pick in the draft. This is the time to trade him before teams figure out they are getting a light hitting OF.

 

Ray as the headliner for Quintana? Heck yes.

[JosephC]

Using the "Ray is a light hitting prospect" approach, I guess it's probably just best the Brewers just give up on all their minor league bats and just "go for it" right now.

 

Ray is 22 years old in advanced A ball and his current slash line is .251/.327/.389/.716. Terrible.

 

Erceg is 22 years old in advanced A ball and his current slash line is .248/.289/.376/.665. Wow he's even worse than Ray...probably has little chance to even make a slight impact at AAA.

 

Diaz is 1 year younger at 21 but his current slash line in advanced A ball is .216/.317/.375/.691. Looks like another excellent sell high candidate for now, before other teams figure out this guy really can't hit.

 

Dubon is 22 years old and was one level higher but his slash line in AA wasn't exactly eye-popping either. .276/.338/.351/.689. He was bumped up to the hitter's paradise in Colorado Springs and has only OPS'ed .613 in a limited sample size there.

 

Speaking of Colorado Springs, how much has Brinson/Phillips/Cordell "played up" from the obvious benefit of hitting in that environment? On the road in /AA this year Phillips has slashed .258/.313/.477/.790. Sure the SLG looks good but how will that .313 OBP work in the majors? He didn't look very good at the plate in his brief time in Milwaukee. Cordell has slashed .230/.291/.381/.673 on the road this season. Already 25 years old...he's starting to look pretty worthless. Brinson on the road, .247/.333/.452/.785...alright that's a little better but a top 20 prospect for all of MLB? He looked especially bad in his brief time with the Brewers.

[MadThinker88]

If I'm giving up Brinson plus others it better be a player with an ERA below 4.00. I'm just not sold on Quintana. I am not big on Lefty's unless they can bring 95+ Heat. Quintana sits around 91 mph and I think he is going to get rocked at Miller Park. When you pitch at MP your going to need power pitching with filth to be worth a big trade to give up your top prospects.

 

I think Stearns is going to continue to roll with what he has. I would believe the brewers would like to see what Woodruff can do first at the major league level before making any deals.

 

I'm all for a farm purge if we can send some mid level prospects like Coulter/Clark/Cordell. But I would say no at all costs to Brinson, Ray, Dubon, Ortiz for sure.

 

A lefty that throws 95 is equivalent to a righty that throws 100. Look how dominating Hader is a 94. Quintana had a 1.78 ERA in June. He got off to a slow start this year which was in part attributed to all the trade talk surrounding him. He's been remarkably consistent his entire career and is one of the best LH pitchers in the game over the past 5 seasons. Guaranteed Rate Park is a launching pad. Compares to Miller Park as a hitter's park. Quintana's got excellent stuff by the way. His career K rate is a solid 7.5 per 9 and this year it's 8.9 per 9. Over his career, Quintana has been the victim of poor run support. But he's touched 200 innings for 4 straight years and he's on pace to get close to that this year.

 

I'd do Ray and Derby in a heartbeat. Not sure that would get it done but Ray and Woodruff might and I'd do that too. Brewers have a boatload of OF. Coulter and Cordell offer would get laughed at. Only guys I'd consider untouchable are Brinson, Ortiz and Burnes.

 

Quintana would make this team a threat not just to get to playoffs in 2017 and 2018 but he'd give them a shot at advancing teaming with Nelson and hopefully a healthy Anderson in the playoffs.

 

As Mark Sweeney said during yesterday's game. Rebuild is one thing but they need to "honor the guys on this roster that put them in this position." Adding a quality arm like Quintana, says to this team, "We believe in you guys". Surrendering 2 of your better prospects and possibly a 3rd marginal one is a cheap price for a guy who's a 21.5 WAR player over his first 6 seasons.

 

Worst case is they don't contend in 2018 and you deal Quintana a year from and likely get 50% of what you paid to get him back. Either way the syetem is still a strong one, and the major league roster is full of young controllable talent.

 

Solid post. Reasonable thought process.

While it is important to understand what the Brewers could afford to part with, the other part of the equation is what do the ChiSox need. They are not dealing Robertson or Quintana just to do it or for salary relief. Moves are being done to improve their own organization. Would Ray & Woodruff be enough to tempt them? Does it address needs that they have?? The prior deals of Sale & Eaton brought in a boatload of talent already. What do they see as needs at this point? What gap are they addressing by dealing Frazier/ Robertson/ etc to another team?? Do those acquired players fill the holes that Ray/ Woodruff might have otherwise filled??

[brewcrewdue80]

Isn't Erceg younger?

The talk to Quintana wont be much talk putting Ray/Derby as a total offer. To this point Will Smith deal is better than that offer for Jose Q. You gotta have a legit SP prospect in a Q trade offer so Hader/Ortiz/Woodruff is 1 in a deal. Brinson/Ray/Clark/Harrison/Phillips/Cordell. 1 or 2 of them would be a part of the deal depending on the pitcher ranking given. Theres gotta be another prospect in the deal. 3-4 decent prospects with 2 top 100s. It's going to be a big haul and hurt to see these names go until Q leads tge team to postseason.

[JohnBriggs12]

One thing in Brewers favor is all things being equal, the Sox would love dealing Quintana to a team that can take down the Cubs. Sox are very concerned about losing a generation of fans to the north side. They have been holding out for a third prime piece and so far nobody has budged. Brewers have the quantity and the quality to make a deal. Maybe Cooper could interest them as a MLB ready third piece with Ray and Woodruff or another arm.

[adambr2]

I really would like avoid dealing Woodruff if at all possible. I'd be much more willing to deal Ortiz.

 

All I ask in any buy deal is that it be for controllable assets that can help in the future or flipped again if things don't work out. Absolutely no big ticket Sabathia type rentals.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Do you guys think Stearns knows what it would take to get Quintana? This is a rare opportunity to get a team friendly contract starting pitcher under control for 3-4 years. This is a must explore.

[igor67]

Despite this being exactly the kind of year that happens every so often (see Cards World Series 2006 for another example) that I've argued means not automatically tanking when you think you've got a .500 team. I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on a large trade. There is a lot of potential depth over the next few years and big ticket trades are how you burn through that. For a high level starter with multiple years of control who isn't I might be interested. Mostly it comes down to be able to whether or not the high value prospects come primarily from the OF. We have enough guys there that I could definitely see trading away a couple not being too painful (if for no other reason then some are either going to flame out or get dealt eventually anyway). I don't mind throwing in a few other guys as well. If I were to do it though it would foreclose any similar large prospect for veteran deal for at least a year probably 2, unless an unusual number of guys on the farm developed.

[Boomer5]

Using the "Ray is a light hitting prospect" approach, I guess it's probably just best the Brewers just give up on all their minor league bats and just "go for it" right now.

 

Ray is 22 years old in advanced A ball and his current slash line is .251/.327/.389/.716. Terrible.

 

Erceg is 22 years old in advanced A ball and his current slash line is .248/.289/.376/.665. Wow he's even worse than Ray...probably has little chance to even make a slight impact at AAA.

 

Diaz is 1 year younger at 21 but his current slash line in advanced A ball is .216/.317/.375/.691. Looks like another excellent sell high candidate for now, before other teams figure out this guy really can't hit.

 

Dubon is 22 years old and was one level higher but his slash line in AA wasn't exactly eye-popping either. .276/.338/.351/.689. He was bumped up to the hitter's paradise in Colorado Springs and has only OPS'ed .613 in a limited sample size there.

 

Speaking of Colorado Springs, how much has Brinson/Phillips/Cordell "played up" from the obvious benefit of hitting in that environment? On the road in /AA this year Phillips has slashed .258/.313/.477/.790. Sure the SLG looks good but how will that .313 OBP work in the majors? He didn't look very good at the plate in his brief time in Milwaukee. Cordell has slashed .230/.291/.381/.673 on the road this season. Already 25 years old...he's starting to look pretty worthless. Brinson on the road, .247/.333/.452/.785...alright that's a little better but a top 20 prospect for all of MLB? He looked especially bad in his brief time with the Brewers.

 

I'm not sure of your argument.

 

Ray has been a light hitting OF, that is just facts. Why Ray would be a better trade piece is because he still has a much higher prospect ranking than the other guys in your list and therefore should bring more in a trade. The other guys on your list have been bad as well, they just aren't top 50 prospects like Ray is currently.

 

Now if your saying most of our prospects have been disappointing, then yes I agree completely. That's in part why we need to leverage their top 100 labels before they fall out in the next evaluation.

[Boomer5]

One thing in Brewers favor is all things being equal, the Sox would love dealing Quintana to a team that can take down the Cubs. Sox are very concerned about losing a generation of fans to the north side. They have been holding out for a third prime piece and so far nobody has budged. Brewers have the quantity and the quality to make a deal. Maybe Cooper could interest them as a MLB ready third piece with Ray and Woodruff or another arm.

 

That's a good point. Marketing has been a disaster for the south side for many reasons.

 

We have the quantity to make the trade and at least the perceived quality. Just about anyone but Brinson and Ponce could be had for a guy like Quintana.

 

Ray, Clark, and Dubon should get it done and we wouldn't miss any of them. I would rather not trade Woodruff if we don't have to.

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

The White Sox hang up if Brinson or Ortiz are not in the conversation. Phillips, Ortiz, Ray, Cooper and Ponce for Quintana and Robertson.

[adambr2]

Yeah I don't think Ray+Dubon + Clark is getting it done . Too much competition, too many teams are going to top that.

 

Brinson is probably an insisted piece. I'm guessing Brinson+Ray to get them talking, would have to be the centerpieces of the deal.

 

Then if you gave them either Ortiz or two prospects from a list of Dubon, Erceg, Burnes, Cordell, and Bickford, you MIGHT land Quintana.

[JohnBriggs12]

Brewers would never agree to Brinson and Ray both being in the deal. Without Brinson you might have to swallow hard and include Ortiz along with Phillips.

 

So Ortiz, Ray, and Phillips for Quintana or if that's not enough, expand it to Ortiz, Ray, Phillips, and Santana for Quintana and Melky Cabrera. Cabrera could help down the stretch, then open up a spot for Brinson in next year's OF.

[trwi7]

The White Sox didn't trade Quintana because nobody offered them a Sale type package, so unless you offer Brinson and Hader and then add a third piece, I don't think they listen and there's no way in hell we should be doing that anyways.

[LouisEly]

The White Sox have 32-year-old Melky Cabrera as their primary LF and nothing in the minors for OF prospects besides Robert, and he's a ways off. They have pitching prospects in Kopesch, Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer, Hansen, etc., so OF prospects might have more value to them; yes, some pitching will need to be included, but I don't think it has to be the centerpiece.

 

If they ask for more than Ray (#2), Ortiz (#4), Cordell (#16), and Orimoloye (#26), I hang up the phone and talk to Oakland about Gray. (Or if they ask for more than Brinson/Diplan/Bickford/Cordell, but I really want to trade Ray now.) I'd part with Brinson and Ray if it means not giving up pitching.

[clancyphile]

I'm reluctant to make any big-ticket deals. The competitive run in a pleasant surprise, but at the same time, I'll just channel Keith from "Survivor" and say, "Stick to the plan."

 

If the Brewers need boosts, try out these young players in AAA and AA who are on the 40-man. Or even clear off a Garza to see who can contribute.

 

THIS is the time to see what Woodruff, Suter, and the other prospects have. The Vogt move was good, in so much as it cost little. That is what I'd look to make.

 

EDIT: My thinking? Perhaps Miguel Montero might be able to help solidify things behind the plate. Would be highly motivated in the playoffs, especially if the Cubs sneak in past the Rockies...

[adambr2]

Brewers would never agree to Brinson and Ray both being in the deal. Without Brinson you might have to swallow hard and include Ortiz along with Phillips.

 

So Ortiz, Ray, and Phillips for Quintana or if that's not enough, expand it to Ortiz, Ray, Phillips, and Santana for Quintana and Melky Cabrera. Cabrera could help down the stretch, then open up a spot for Brinson in next year's OF.

 

Why not? They'd still have Phillips, Cordell, Harrison, and Clark in the system . Keston could wind up in the OF as well.

 

I'm not advocating for doing something like this but if you want to get into bidding wars at the deadline, much less anytime, for the top guys out there, you don't get to take chips off the table . It took the top prospect in baseball to land Sale, and the White Sox aren't asking for much less on Quintana.

 

Several contenders could blow away an offer of just either Brinson or Ray plus some other decent lesser pieces.