Justin Verlander

[owbc]

Remember, Verlander has to approve but I can't see Verlander wanting to be on a team that's now on a decline. Not only that, who wants to live in Detroit. And the NL is easier to pitch than the AL.

 

It would be a real bummer if Verlander vetoes the (hypothetical) trade. This isn't a temporary move, he's going to be stuck in Milwaukee for a few years.

[JohnBriggs12]

Going for Verlander instead of using actual assets for a controllable pitcher in his prime is more PR than it is a real effort to make a playoff run.

[rickh150]

Could they include Kinsler, as well?

 

Or we could have just kept Scooter and his 900 plus OPS.

 

Then we wouldn't have Sogard.

[rickh150]

Going for Verlander instead of using actual assets for a controllable pitcher in his prime is more PR than it is a real effort to make a playoff run.

 

No way.... he can still pitch. Three really bad starts has his ERA up. He wouldn't be my first choice, but if we wouldn't have to give up much (oh yeah, except $), go get him.

[MrTPlush]

Verlander and his salary is worth a bag of baseballs. We would be doing the Tigers a tremendous favor. We also might be the only team in baseball willing to do this and it might be their only chance to get his salary off the books.

 

I think players and salary will be involved since it would look bad for the Tigers to send him over for nothing.

 

I'm all green light if Mark A wants to spend the cash. Get it done and get Verlander in there against the Nationals next week.

 

I tend to agree with most on the thread. We get verlander and take on most salary, they get something like Clark plus jungmann plus Zack Brown. Clark and jungmann can be touted as 1st round picks to their casual fans. Most of our other talent should be cheap enough to keep some payroll flexibility even with most of his contract added on through 2019 when he drops off and 2020 when Brauns drops off. The tigers already signaled they were dropping out of contention for at least this year when they punted Martinez for salary relief and little more.

 

Clark? Trent Clark? No thanks.

 

Why give up real assets for a guy who is pretty questionable. He may do well the rest of the year, but what about the other two years? Could end up a total dumpster fire at his age. Too risky.

[JosephC]

I don't think this will happen. If it ever did get close to happening I think Verlander's no-trade rights plus the 2020 year would end up killing the trade. I can't imagine Verlander would approve the deal without getting something in return, and the return would be for him to demand the 2020 vesting option be converted to a player option which takes the contract up another 22 million. I don't think the Tigers would be willing to kick in even more money to protect the Brewer's 2020 finances and I don't see Stearns being real optimistic about being on the hook for 22 million to a 37 year old pitcher.

 

I don't blame Stearns for doing his due-diligence on Verlander but to me it seems like a real, real, real long-shot. But who knows, stranger things have happened.

[JosephC]

Baseball Reference WAR values on Verlander from 2014-2017 (2017 pro-rated to full season, currently 7/12 of way into season) : 1.1, 2.0, 6.6, 1.9

 

Fangraphs WAR values on Verlander from 2014-2017 (again, 2017 pro-rated to full season) : 2.9, 2.9, 5.2, 2.9

 

Average of the two from 2014-2017 = 2.0, 2.45, 5.9, 2.4

 

Hard to look at those numbers and think that 2016 was anything but an outlier.

 

Probably pretty fair to apply the 0.5 annual loss in value to him at this point considering he will be in his age 35 season in 2018.

 

If you accept all that, projected annual WAR and value through 2020:

remainder of 2017 = 1.0 * 8.56 = 8.56 million

2018 = 1.9 * 9.16 = 17.404 million

2019 = 1.4 * 9.80 = 13.72 million

2020 = 0.9 * 10.49 = 9.441 million

Total value = 49.125 million

 

Verlander is scheduled to make:

remainder of 2017 (estimate is just 5/12 of yearly salary) = 11.667 million

2018 = 28 million

2019 = 28 million

2020 = 22 million (assuming this becomes a player option)

Total earnings = 89.667 million

 

I'd personally have him as having minus 40 million in surplus value.

 

But let's assume the 2020 vesting option isn't converted to a player option and does not vest so the contract ends at 2019. Let's also assume that Verlander's performance does not drop between now and the end of 2019. He's projected to finish with a 2.4 WAR this year so let's assume that for 2018 and 2019 as well. Doing so would take Verlander's total value to 54.064 million and he would earn 67.667 million over that same period...so with those assumptions his surplus value would only be minus 13.603 million. If that's how both teams see it, there is enough wiggle room where the Brewers maybe get Verlander plus about 20 million from Detroit (or maybe Justin Wilson instead of a big chunk of that cash) and the Tigers get a couple nice prospects back from Milwaukee (maybe Trent Clark and Freddy Peralta). But I still think Verlander leverages the 2020 season to wave his no-trade and then I just don't see anything happening...the numbers don't make sense at that point.

[KeithStone53151]

Verlander and his salary is worth a bag of baseballs. We would be doing the Tigers a tremendous favor. We also might be the only team in baseball willing to do this and it might be their only chance to get his salary off the books.

 

I think players and salary will be involved since it would look bad for the Tigers to send him over for nothing.

 

I'm all green light if Mark A wants to spend the cash. Get it done and get Verlander in there against the Nationals next week.

 

I tend to agree with most on the thread. We get verlander and take on most salary, they get something like Clark plus jungmann plus Zack Brown. Clark and jungmann can be touted as 1st round picks to their casual fans. Most of our other talent should be cheap enough to keep some payroll flexibility even with most of his contract added on through 2019 when he drops off and 2020 when Brauns drops off. The tigers already signaled they were dropping out of contention for at least this year when they punted Martinez for salary relief and little more.

 

Clark? Trent Clark? No thanks.

 

Why give up real assets for a guy who is pretty questionable. He may do well the rest of the year, but what about the other two years? Could end up a total dumpster fire at his age. Too risky.

 

Fair enough, I personally don't view Clark as much of a prospect but that's my opinion. He had 4th outfielder/tweener written all over him on draft day. That's another conversation though. From Detroit's standpoint, it's gonna be tough to sell a pure salary dump for an effective starting pitcher. Maybe do gatewood or Harrison or diplan, but they will surely need something of quality or they won't do the trade. I'm sure they'll also eat a chunk of salary to get some prospect return, so it's not like we'd take on all the $.

[brewmann04]

Vandelander not going to waive his deal

[FVBrewerFan]

Really don't know, very I interesting. This is the type of deal they should be looking at at least. Sometimes you need to take a risk, and I love that too prospects don't need to be involved. If they werent already saddled with Nrauns dead money, woyld be a lot easier decision.

[adambr2]

Vandelander not going to waive his deal

 

This. We have our own 10/5 guy in Braun, and he's got like 4 places he's willing to go. What gives us any indication that Verlander wants to give up his 10/5 rights to be a Brewer? Unless he's good with the location and can be sold on the idea that he's the missing piece to a winner, I can't imagine that Milwaukee is atop his list of preferred destinations.

 

Doubt this is anything but the Tigers trying to drive a market .

[mlloyd10]

 

There are couple of teams kicking the tires on #Tigers Justin Verlande (#Cubs, not #Brewers), but #Tigers not remotely close w any team

[StearnsFTW]

Could they include Kinsler, as well?

 

Or we could have just kept Scooter and his 900 plus OPS.

 

Right, because that's not an anomaly or anything.

[brewmann04]

Think we can put this rumor to rest make no sense and their is hardly any way he going to waive hi rights.

[rickh150]

More news from MLB Buzz... 9:30 pm Friday night

http://mlb.com/r/article?ymd=20170714&content_id=242089356&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

Brewers still in on Verlander?

"Looking to add big"

[Brewcrewin07]

More news from MLB Buzz... 9:30 pm Friday night

http://mlb.com/r/article?ymd=20170714&content_id=242089356&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

Brewers still in on Verlander?

"Looking to add big"

 

Not buying that they are looking to add big...if they were, they'd have done something by now..the longer it goes, the higher the prices go up and the less likely they do something. I wish they would add big, but it doesn't appear that it's going to happen sadly enough. I'd love to see a haul of verlander, Wilson AND Gray..and I think it can be done without giving up the farm, just by taking on Verlander's contract.

[adambr2]

More news from MLB Buzz... 9:30 pm Friday night

http://mlb.com/r/article?ymd=20170714&content_id=242089356&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

Brewers still in on Verlander?

"Looking to add big"

 

Not buying that they are looking to add big...if they were, they'd have done something by now..the longer it goes, the higher the prices go up and the less likely they do something. I wish they would add big, but it doesn't appear that it's going to happen sadly enough. I'd love to see a haul of verlander, Wilson AND Gray..and I think it can be done without giving up the farm, just by taking on Verlander's contract.

 

Verlander has stated in the past he is 'too old to be part of a rebuilding process.'

 

He just bought a house in California, with his fiancee Kate Upton.

 

There is basically zero chance that Verlander waives his NTC and gives up his 10/5 rights to come to Milwaukee.

[Brewcrewin07]

More news from MLB Buzz... 9:30 pm Friday night

http://mlb.com/r/article?ymd=20170714&content_id=242089356&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

Brewers still in on Verlander?

"Looking to add big"

 

Not buying that they are looking to add big...if they were, they'd have done something by now..the longer it goes, the higher the prices go up and the less likely they do something. I wish they would add big, but it doesn't appear that it's going to happen sadly enough. I'd love to see a haul of verlander, Wilson AND Gray..and I think it can be done without giving up the farm, just by taking on Verlander's contract.

 

Verlander has stated in the past he is 'too old to be part of a rebuilding process.'

 

He just bought a house in California, with his fiancee Kate Upton.

 

There is basically zero chance that Verlander waives his NTC and gives up his 10/5 rights to come to Milwaukee.

 

Fine, it doesn't have to be Verlander...Gray, Wilson and another big piece or two would be fine with me..

[trwi7]

20 innings of Justin Wilson will definitely change the team's fortunes.

[rickh150]

More news from MLB Buzz... 9:30 pm Friday night

http://mlb.com/r/article?ymd=20170714&content_id=242089356&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

Brewers still in on Verlander?

"Looking to add big"

 

Not buying that they are looking to add big...if they were, they'd have done something by now..the longer it goes, the higher the prices go up and the less likely they do something. I wish they would add big, but it doesn't appear that it's going to happen sadly enough. I'd love to see a haul of verlander, Wilson AND Gray..and I think it can be done without giving up the farm, just by taking on Verlander's contract.

 

Verlander has stated in the past he is 'too old to be part of a rebuilding process.'

 

He just bought a house in California, with his fiancee Kate Upton.

 

There is basically zero chance that Verlander waives his NTC and gives up his 10/5 rights to come to Milwaukee.

 

No way zero chance..... maybe 5%

 

Wouldn't Milwaukee have this knowledge of Verlander's wants already? Especially after the Lucroy botch, wouldn't Verlander's wants be FACT in the Brewers front office? Nutso if it isn't. Otherwise, it is a no excuse complete waste of precious time.

 

So I gather three bits here..... either we are completely foolish trying to work together a great deal since he probably waives his no trade clause in our face or we already know he will waive his no trade (and perhaps we picked up his 2020 option) and we are working on a prospect/$ package. Or Then again we could be completely uninterested, showing some fakeinterest just to jack up the asking price for the Cubs and the press has bought it.

[Brewcrewin07]

20 innings of Justin Wilson will definitely change the team's fortunes.

 

Have you been watching all the blown leads this bullpen has had since the All star break??

[trwi7]

20 innings of Justin Wilson will definitely change the team's fortunes.

 

Have you been watching all the blown leads this bullpen has had since the All star break??

 

Have you been watching how many runs have been scored? They haven't scored more than 3 runs in a week. The one time they had a lead late, Knebel blew it. Every other time the starter gave up a lead or a reliever came in when they game was already tied or likely to be tied given the situation when the starter was pulled.

[pacopete4]

20 innings of Justin Wilson will definitely change the team's fortunes.

 

Have you been watching all the blown leads this bullpen has had since the All star break??

 

Have you been watching how many runs have been scored? They haven't scored more than 3 runs in a week. The one time they had a lead late, Knebel blew it. Every other time the starter gave up a lead or a reliever came in when they game was already tied or likely to be tied given the situation when the starter was pulled.

 

So because the offense has hit a dry spell for a week, we just ignore the bullpen and not upgrade it if there's a possible match out there? Solid plan. I'm sure Stearns is thinking exactly how you are...

[rickh150]

More news from MLB Buzz... 9:30 pm Friday night

http://mlb.com/r/article?ymd=20170714&content_id=242089356&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

Brewers still in on Verlander?

"Looking to add big"

 

 

Skipped over it before..... the video from the MLB article has Justice saying that he'd be surprised if the Brewers didn't do something BIG. He says Attanasio is THE most aggressive owner, will do whatever DS wants to do, including trade prospects and add salary. Not news there, but what a difference from beginning of season when he wasn't concerned about wins and losses.

[adambr2]

More news from MLB Buzz... 9:30 pm Friday night

http://mlb.com/r/article?ymd=20170714&content_id=242089356&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

Brewers still in on Verlander?

"Looking to add big"

 

 

Skipped over it before..... the video from the MLB article has Justice saying that he'd be surprised if the Brewers didn't do something BIG. He says Attanasio is THE most aggressive owner, will do whatever DS wants to do, including trade prospects and add salary. Not news there, but what a difference from beginning of season when he wasn't concerned about wins and losses.

 

I don't believe Attanasio is going to force Stearns' hand on anything and just because he'll listen to DS certainly doesn't mean that Stearns has any desire to acquire a 34 year old starter having a career worst year and a pen arm with one year of control .

 

If that's the direction we want to take we have really learned nothing from the past.