2017-06-24: Brewers (Garza) at Braves (Dickey) 3:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 3-1]

[adambr2]

Injury prone, expensive, flips out when demoted to the pen and walks out on the team and goes home. Also, sucks at his job. What's not to love about Garza?

[wildcat2237]

Injury prone, expensive, flips out when demoted to the pen and walks out on the team and goes home. Also, sucks at his job. What's not to love about Garza?

 

And he's a jerk to boot.

 

Here is a link to his twtter fight with Sogard's wife:

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/08/rangers-pitcher-matt-garza-rips-eric-sogard-and-his-wife-in-offensive-twitter-rant

[rcc]

What a jerk! I wonder how Sogard deals with him in the dugout. Sogard doing a great job for the Crew and Garza is an overpaid over-the-hill pitcher. The front office probably can't wait for the contract to end, whether they admit it or not.

[adambr2]

We hardly knew ya, good Jett Bandy. Holy smokes what a nosedive.

[trwi7]

Freeman just made Thames and Santana look completely clueless.

[rcc]

The guys are just not clutch hitting this series. Hope for a win tomorrow to avoid a sweep. The Cubs are winning in Miami.

[rcc]

Check that. The Cubs have won. .5 out of first place for the Cubbies.

 

I know we've been lucky the Crew have been in first place, but I like them there.

[LouisEly]

Of course Garza can't hold the lead. Gives it up right away. I have no confidence in the guy at all. Isn't his contract up this year. Bye bye!

Came here specifically to see the criticism of Garza because he didn't throw 7 shutout innings of 2-hit ball.

 

For chrissakes, it was a quality start. He is close to the last thing to complain about today.

 

Looking forward to the same roasting of Davies whenever he gives up a run, since Davies has been much worse. [sarcasm]Can't wait to see Davies optioned.[/sarcasm]

[TURBO]

Of course Garza can't hold the lead. Gives it up right away. I have no confidence in the guy at all. Isn't his contract up this year. Bye bye!

Came here specifically to see the criticism of Garza because he didn't throw 7 shutout innings of 2-hit ball.

 

For chrissakes, it was a quality start. He is close to the last thing to complain about today.

 

Looking forward to the same roasting of Davies whenever he gives up a run, since Davies has been much worse. [sarcasm]Can't wait to see Davies optioned.[/sarcasm]

 

How much money is Davies being paid?

 

Garza gets a hard time because of two things.

 

1. He sucks.

 

2. He is a jerk with no team concept, me me me me attitudes turn people off.

[rcc]

The loss today was more the fault of the offense not hitting in the clutch. Garza doesn't instill confidence. That's a fact. He doesn't have to throw a no hitter for that either. He just has to pitch like he has in the past that warranted getting that contract.

[LouisEly]

How much money is Davies being paid?

Not a cent more than the collective bargaining agreement requires the Brewers to pay him. If he was a free agent after last season how much would he be making now? Irrelevant.

 

1. He sucks.

Then what does that make Davies?

 

2. He is a jerk with no team concept, me me me me attitudes turn people off.

You know him personally, or is that your interpretation of what you read in the media?

 

Is that fact, or is that confirmation bias?

[adambr2]

Check that. The Cubs have won. .5 out of first place for the Cubbies.

 

I know we've been lucky the Crew have been in first place, but I like them there.

 

Honestly, it's been a fun season but I think we're still much closer to a .500 team than a contender.

 

Realistically, I don't see much chance that we outlast the Cubs over the long haul . And that's okay. This was never supposed to be our year and it's probably not going to be.

[adambr2]

How much money is Davies being paid?

Not a cent more than the collective bargaining agreement requires the Brewers to pay him. If he was a free agent after last season how much would he be making now? Irrelevant.

 

1. He sucks.

Then what does that make Davies?

 

2. He is a jerk with no team concept, me me me me attitudes turn people off.

You know him personally, or is that your interpretation of what you read in the media?

 

Is that fact, or is that confirmation bias?

 

The Brewers still have more than a month of baseball left on the calendar, and Melvin said Garza would be welcome to join the bullpen should he have a change of heart.

 

Garza suggested that would not happen.

 

"I'm not going to throw another ball, and that's it," Garza said.

 

This is an okay, team first attitude? This is not an interpretation from the media, this is his exact quote.

 

I find it incredible that the collective bargaining agreement that you brought up that requires the Brewers to pay him would ever allow a pitcher to refuse to move to the bullpen.

[3and2Fastball]

Garza certainly wasn't a jerk when he signed an autograph for my kid and literally a hundred other kids prior to Brewers game a month or so ago.

[ZBTMP]

Came here specifically to see the criticism of Garza because he didn't throw 7 shutout innings of 2-hit ball.

At the time of the criticism Garza had given up 3 ERs in 3 innings and a lead off double in the 4th without punching out a batter. I don't think the criticism was excessive.

For chrissakes, it was a quality start. He is close to the last thing to complain about today.

Who's Chris?

Looking forward to the same roasting of Davies whenever he gives up a run, since Davies has been much worse. [sarcasm]Can't wait to see Davies optioned.[/sarcasm]

 

You really cannot see the difference between the angst of Davies and Garza? Really? Garza is 33 and has been worth -1.7 WAR since the start of 2015. Davies has still been worth 3 WAR over that same time period. Davies is coming of an age 23 season worth 2.3 WAR.

 

Garza is a liability who's best case scenario for the Brewers is something like 4.25 ERA over the next month and a half and someone saves us a million dollars to take him on before the waiver deadline. If the season were to end now and he were a free agent he wouldn't be getting a MLB contract.

 

Davies upside is something like 12 WAR, sub 4 ERA, 900 innings over the next 4 1/2 seasons. He wouldnt make it past the first team if he were DFA'd today.

 

If the Brewers want to keep pitching Garza because he is a stable option, fine. But the Brewers need to do what is best for Davies development. If they feel that is working out his struggles against MLB hitters, Im not going to argue with that.

[LouisEly]

You really cannot see the difference between the angst of Davies and Garza? Really? Garza is 33 and has been worth -1.7 3.1 fWAR since the start of 2015. Davies has still been worth 3 WAR over that same time period. Davies is coming of an age 23 season worth 2.3 WAR.

 

Garza is a liability who's best case scenario for the Brewers is something like 4.25 ERA over the next month and a half and someone saves us a million dollars to take him on before the waiver deadline. If the season were to end now and he were a free agent he wouldn't be getting a MLB contract.

(Fixed the above for you.)

 

You really cannot see that Garza was injured in 2015 and 2016, and even so put up 1.4 fWAR in 2016?

 

As for how much he's paid, it has been estimated that 1 WAR in free agency is worth $7-9M. Taking the midpoint, he was worth $11.2M last year and was paid $12.5M. Free agent starting pitching is expensive; please accept that reality.

 

I'm sorry, but this idea that Garza "sucks" is just patently false. And if Garza puts up a 4.25 ERA over the next month and a half... well, that's the equivalent of a low #2/high #3 starter because a 4.25 ERA, among players with at least 60 IP in the NL, would currently rank 26th.

 

I'm sorry if the stats don't fit your narrative.

[ZBTMP]

You really cannot see the difference between the angst of Davies and Garza? Really? Garza is 33 and has been worth -1.7 3.1 fWAR since the start of 2015. Davies has still been worth 3 WAR over that same time period. Davies is coming of an age 23 season worth 2.3 WAR.

 

Garza is a liability who's best case scenario for the Brewers is something like 4.25 ERA over the next month and a half and someone saves us a million dollars to take him on before the waiver deadline. If the season were to end now and he were a free agent he wouldn't be getting a MLB contract.

(Fixed the above for you.)

 

You really cannot see that Garza was injured in 2015 and 2016, and even so put up 1.4 fWAR in 2016?

 

As for how much he's paid, it has been estimated that 1 WAR in free agency is worth $7-9M. Taking the midpoint, he was worth $11.2M last year and was paid $12.5M. Free agent starting pitching is expensive; please accept that reality.

 

I'm sorry, but this idea that Garza "sucks" is just patently false. And if Garza puts up a 4.25 ERA over the next month and a half... well, that's the equivalent of a low #2/high #3 starter because a 4.25 ERA, among players with at least 60 IP in the NL, would currently rank 26th.

 

I'm sorry if the stats don't fit your narrative.

 

Garza wasn't really excessively injured, he was old and no longer effective in 2015 and 2016. -1.7 is his bWAR over that time which is a better indicator of the value the Brewers got. FWAR is exclusively FIP, which I am fine with a predictive metric but it has flaws and isn't really an encompassing indicator of the value the Brewers got. 4.25 is 90% IMO. Both fangraphs projection systems has his ERA over 5 for the remainder of the season which well, sucks and could be had by a non-roster invitee in spring training and the Brewers have a half dozen options at least that project better.

[adambr2]

You really cannot see the difference between the angst of Davies and Garza? Really? Garza is 33 and has been worth -1.7 3.1 fWAR since the start of 2015. Davies has still been worth 3 WAR over that same time period. Davies is coming of an age 23 season worth 2.3 WAR.

 

Garza is a liability who's best case scenario for the Brewers is something like 4.25 ERA over the next month and a half and someone saves us a million dollars to take him on before the waiver deadline. If the season were to end now and he were a free agent he wouldn't be getting a MLB contract.

(Fixed the above for you.)

 

You really cannot see that Garza was injured in 2015 and 2016, and even so put up 1.4 fWAR in 2016?

 

As for how much he's paid, it has been estimated that 1 WAR in free agency is worth $7-9M. Taking the midpoint, he was worth $11.2M last year and was paid $12.5M. Free agent starting pitching is expensive; please accept that reality.

 

I'm sorry, but this idea that Garza "sucks" is just patently false. And if Garza puts up a 4.25 ERA over the next month and a half... well, that's the equivalent of a low #2/high #3 starter because a 4.25 ERA, among players with at least 60 IP in the NL, would currently rank 26th.

 

I'm sorry if the stats don't fit your narrative.

 

Garza being injured for 2 years is not a very strong argument for his value.

 

Anyway, he is who he is at this point. He's not a terrible starter, but he's a highly replaceable one and barring a very strong 2nd half I am sure they will be happy to move on from him next year.

 

I don't know why you keep bringing Davies into it. No one is giving Davies a pass. Davies is having a very poor season. He also is 24, has some developmental upaide and can be optioned to the minors, and was far better than Garza last year. He also makes about 4% of Garza's salary. He is a good value as a bottom of the rotation starter. Garza is not. Just because he might be technically 'worth' $12.5M in free agent dollars (though I bet you'd be hard-pressed to find a team that would give him that if he were a free agent today,) that does not mean he is a good value for a small market franchise.

[LouisEly]

Both fangraphs projection systems has his ERA over 5 for the remainder of the season which well, sucks and could be had by a non-roster invitee in spring training and the Brewers have a half dozen options at least that project better.

1) The one constant about forecasting is that all forecasts are wrong, the question is by how much and in which direction.

 

B) [sarcasm]You mean like Tommy Milone? Yeah, those non-roster invitees are better than Garza.[/sarcasm]

 

3) Bring up one of those half-dozen to replace Davies.

 

4) I don't care what someone's salary is - I'm not writing the checks. I care about winning.

[sdcheezhd]

Came here specifically to see the criticism of Garza because he didn't throw 7 shutout innings of 2-hit ball.

 

For chrissakes, it was a quality start. He is close to the last thing to complain about today.

 

Looking forward to the same roasting of Davies whenever he gives up a run, since Davies has been much worse. [sarcasm]Can't wait to see Davies optioned.[/sarcasm]

 

Agreed Garza wasn't the problem Saturday.

 

And we didn't get a chance yesterday to see the reaction to Davies giving up a run!

 

If they keep it up over the next few starts I'll be happy.