The continuing saga of Arcia's magnificent defense

[FVBrewerFan]

He'd be a more advanced hitter than he was last year even if he had done it at the minor league level

 

Not necessarily. There comes a point when a player needs to face MLB pitchers every night to advance as a hitter. Very possibly, they could have waited a year to bring him up and he would have an adjustment period. They're staggering the arrival time so they don't have 4 or 5 guys all that that stage at once.

[LouisEly]

pfft.. yuni did it better

 

Quite possibly...

That's the one I was trying to remember... couldn't remember who the SS was that turned it.

 

And no folks, that's not Yuni-trolling, that is one of the most spectacular double-plays I've ever seen, both the behind the back flip and the barehanded catch by Weeks.

[brewcrewdue80]

Who cares on team control? Its called Franchise extending. Ive been touting he'll be the Brewers Derek Jeter around for 12years. The only time team control matters is when in 6.5years and yearly nos to an extensive so to see Free Agency. I dont see that with Arcia. Milwaukee signed him and have stuck with him from day 1. In another year I'd expect the front office to extend him. But maybe it happens this offseason. Buy out his team control plus 3FA years. Add 2 option years. This isnt a cash strapped teamin payroll. Braun's contract will be long gone before Arcias would get eexpensive.

[Pugger]

Orlando Magic.

[logan82]

pfft.. yuni did it better

 

Quite possibly...

That's the one I was trying to remember... couldn't remember who the SS was that turned it.

 

And no folks, that's not Yuni-trolling, that is one of the most spectacular double-plays I've ever seen, both the behind the back flip and the barehanded catch by Weeks.

I remember that one. It was the play where a good SS gets the guy at 2B instead of having to flip the ball to 2B.

[brewerfan82]

I remember that one. It was the play where a good SS gets the guy at 2B instead of having to flip the ball to 2B.

Wow. Really? I have a feeling if any SS in baseball not named Yuni made that play, that thought would never have crossed your mind. I'm not sure how any SS is able to step on the base himself on that one.

[MrTPlush]

I remember that one. It was the play where a good SS gets the guy at 2B instead of having to flip the ball to 2B.

Wow. Really? I have a feeling if any SS in baseball not named Yuni made that play, that thought would never have crossed your mind. I'm not sure how any SS is able to step on the base himself on that one.

 

I am with it you. No one could have possibly stepped on 2nd themselves there. Even the fastest and rangiest SS in history wouldn't have been able to touch 2nd. You would have to stop your momentum, run back to 2nd, and then throw. Both players would have been safe by a mile.

[clancyphile]

Arcia's defense is good, I'll grant that. That said, I'm not sure I want a sub-.700 OPS out there every day.

 

Ryan Cordell could likely put up an OPS 100-150 points higher at short. Hernan Perez put up about 100 points higher year-to-year. Seems to me that they might be alternatives if Arcia's bat doesn't improve to a good OPS (ideally along the lines of what he posted in AA in 2015).

 

If Arcia's bat isn't there, it may be worth putting Arcia out there. Someone may overpay for the ESPN "web gem" defense.

[logan82]

I remember that one. It was the play where a good SS gets the guy at 2B instead of having to flip the ball to 2B.

Wow. Really? I have a feeling if any SS in baseball not named Yuni made that play, that thought would never have crossed your mind. I'm not sure how any SS is able to step on the base himself on that one.

A SS with any range is able to take a different angle to the ball the takes him towards 2B.

[MrTPlush]

Orlando Arcia has OPSed .760 in the last month. If he can find a way for that to stick he is a solid player and I don't think anyone will replace him. He will have to find a way to discover more power because the .311 average over the last month won't stick the way his approach is. I think he will become a solid .750 OPS hitter someday. Now if he starts stinking up the joint for a couple months straight I might then start to limit his playing time if we are still competing. That being said hard to leave his defense on the bench and not give him the chances to better his offense.

 

Right now he is playing really well and I hope it continues.

[Jenkins5]

Arcia's defense is good, I'll grant that. That said, I'm not sure I want a sub-.700 OPS out there every day.

 

Ryan Cordell could likely put up an OPS 100-150 points higher at short. Hernan Perez put up about 100 points higher year-to-year. Seems to me that they might be alternatives if Arcia's bat doesn't improve to a good OPS (ideally along the lines of what he posted in AA in 2015).

 

If Arcia's bat isn't there, it may be worth putting Arcia out there. Someone may overpay for the ESPN "web gem" defense.

 

Cordell is bad enough in the infield that Brewers won't even try him back at 3rd with loaded OF.... but yeah the extra OPS would help a ton with absolutely horrid defense. He very well could have negative WAR due to defensive factors to offset the .150 extra slugging.

 

Arcia is a young kid growing. He will never be Lindor with the bat but I believe he showing plenty of growth to be optimistic. He needs to walk more and his body needs to continue to mature/get stronger. With those he should sit somewhere in the .730+ range.

[pacopete4]

Cordell at SS? Might as well resign Yuni B

[clancyphile]

Orlando Arcia has OPSed .760 in the last month. If he can find a way for that to stick he is a solid player and I don't think anyone will replace him. He will have to find a way to discover more power because the .311 average over the last month won't stick the way his approach is. I think he will become a solid .750 OPS hitter someday. Now if he starts stinking up the joint for a couple months straight I might then start to limit his playing time if we are still competing. That being said hard to leave his defense on the bench and not give him the chances to better his offense.

 

Right now he is playing really well and I hope it continues.

 

I hope he does well and makes this very difficult for the front office.

 

But in 2016, Villar had an OPS of .826 playing most of the time at short. They didn't need to call him up when they did with the underwhelming numbers at Colorado Springs.

 

Today, yeah, he's hot this month, but can he make it stick? I dunno. But if Ryan Cordell can add 150-200 more points... maybe it's time to think about making a switch.

[clancyphile]

Cordell at SS? Might as well resign Yuni B

 

I think Cordell's bat is far better than Yuni's.

 

The thing is... if Arcia improves to a .760 OPS, Cordell still looks like he can put up an OPS about 100 points higher. Yeah Arcia's glove is very, very, very good. But is it worth giving up that 100-150 extra points of OPS?

 

And what if Arcia only can get his OPS to the .710 range?

 

I think at some point, it may not hurt to consider getting the extra OPS, plus what Arcia could net in a trade. Someone could very well overpay for the web-gem defense, and the offensive production at shortstop is improved by 20-25% in terms of OPS.

[bork]

Cordell has played a grand total of 14 games at short in his entire minor league career. And his fielding percentage at SS or 3B is about the same as Braun's at 3B. There is a 1% chance that Cordell ever plays a major league game at SS, so the discussion is moot.

[mrn1ceguy]

Cordell at SS? Might as well resign Yuni B

 

I think Cordell's bat is far better than Yuni's.

 

The thing is... if Arcia improves to a .760 OPS, Cordell still looks like he can put up an OPS about 100 points higher. Yeah Arcia's glove is very, very, very good. But is it worth giving up that 100-150 extra points of OPS?

 

And what if Arcia only can get his OPS to the .710 range?

 

I think at some point, it may not hurt to consider getting the extra OPS, plus what Arcia could net in a trade. Someone could very well overpay for the web-gem defense, and the offensive production at shortstop is improved by 20-25% in terms of OPS.

 

Yes, very much yes. I would easily give up 100 - 200 OPS to go from top tier defense to well below average defense (likely, historically terrible defense).

 

Honestly, Villar's defense last year would have to be the floor for anyone playing that position, and even at 0.826 OPS, I would probably take this year's Arcia over last year's Villar knowing you can move last year Villar's bat to a different position (2B). Defense at SS is too important.

[brewcrewdue80]

125 games. That is Arcia's ML experience. Young, lean body. He's still over a year before the age Braun debuted. Think about that for a moment on how quick you are judging his ability. Cast him off because you are watching results that typical guys his age are at AA. Pretty much at 1WAR in the 70games thus far this season and showing improvement. Let his body mature his ability at the game grow with that. I think a bump up to .750 at his position would be taking him from a slight negative with the bat, to a slight positive. Add in the gold glove defense, he is in the 5WAR category. Try and find that in Cordell's bat and defense?

 

According to Milw's all time player stats(that Qualify) 12 Brewers have batted with an OPS above .800 Robin Yount the highest SS OPS at .772. So try and lessen expectations with the bat a little unless you are expecting Arcia to be one of the Brewers all-time Greats. Saying you want to replace him with Cordell makes Cordell an expected all time great.

[MrTPlush]

I don't think Arcia is going to add any power. What he has is already there. He just doesn't tap into it all due to poor pitch selection etc. causing too much poor contact. I think he naturally improves to create more solid contact thus more power results. What I don't see is him filling out his frame and adding power that way. It would not only take away from his defense, but a guy almost the same(Alcides Escobar) didn't do it himself so I doubt Arcia adds a bunch of muscle either.

 

Orlando is and always will be a lean dude, in my opinion.

[pacopete4]

I don't think Arcia is going to add any power. What he has is already there. He just doesn't tap into it all due to poor pitch selection etc. causing too much poor contact. I think he naturally improves to create more solid contact thus more power results. What I don't see is him filling out his frame and adding power that way. It would not only take away from his defense, but a guy almost the same(Alcides Escobar) didn't do it himself so I doubt Arcia adds a bunch of muscle either.

 

Orlando is and always will be a lean dude, in my opinion.

 

 

You can be lean and add strength. That will come just as anyone's strength in their mid 20's increases.

[82brewcrew82]

Orlando Arcia has OPSed .760 in the last month. If he can find a way for that to stick he is a solid player and I don't think anyone will replace him. He will have to find a way to discover more power because the .311 average over the last month won't stick the way his approach is. I think he will become a solid .750 OPS hitter someday. Now if he starts stinking up the joint for a couple months straight I might then start to limit his playing time if we are still competing. That being said hard to leave his defense on the bench and not give him the chances to better his offense.

 

Right now he is playing really well and I hope it continues.

 

I hope he does well and makes this very difficult for the front office.

 

But in 2016, Villar had an OPS of .826 playing most of the time at short. They didn't need to call him up when they did with the underwhelming numbers at Colorado Springs.

 

Today, yeah, he's hot this month, but can he make it stick? I dunno. But if Ryan Cordell can add 150-200 more points... maybe it's time to think about making a switch.

 

I don't think there is anything remotely difficult about this for the front office. Arcia is, and will continue to be, the starting SS for quite some time. The kid is 22 for cripes sake. Cordell is 25 and hasn't made it out of the minors yet. I'm not even sure Cordell can put up the lofty offensive numbers you keep touting. He's only got a .670 OPS outside of Colorado Spings. His OPS last year in AA was .803 (Arcia @ .800) and only .771 (Arcia .738) the year before while splitting time between high A and AA. There are some awfully big assumptions being thrown out there on both sides of the ball with regard to Cordell's ability.

[FVBrewerFan]

Somehow my thread about Arcia's defense has morphed into a discussion about Cordell taking his place. (Yes, I also realize it's a matter of time before "someone" mentions Braun moving back to 3B)

[homer]

Somehow my thread about Arcia's defense has morphed into a discussion about Cordell taking his place. (Yes, I also realize it's a matter of time before "someone" mentions Braun moving back to 3B)

 

Can Bill Hall pitch?

[MadScientist]

Right now Arcia has the 15th best ops among qualifying shortstops (23 total) in the majors. He also is arguably the best defensive SS in the league (highest range factor and most double plays FWIW). He isn't going anywhere unless he falls off a cliff at the plate, and at this point he is more likely to improve to a regular 750 ops player than to fall off a cliff, at least for the next few years.

 

Arcia will be the Brewers shortstop for a long time, and this thread will keep getting new clips posted until we all get so spoiled and jaded that plays in the 'impossible' category for other shortstops just seem 'ok'.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Cordell is not going to play ss for the Brewers...

[Boomer5]

Cordell is not going to play ss for the Brewers...

 

To say the least.

 

Arcia is the Brewers starting SS and that's that. And rightly so.