corey knebel sets single season k streak relief record

[djoctagone]

i know it's been discussed elsewhere, but it deserves its own thread.

 

the record for at least one strikeout per appearance to start a season in major league history for a pitcher working exclusively in relief is 37 appearances--set by aroldis chapman in 2014.

 

corey knebel is at 34 to start off 2017, which ranks him second all time.

 

the brewers have one game left against the cardinals, who rank 9th in the national league in strikeouts.

 

then on to this weekend against the padres, who rank 2nd in the national league in strikeouts (21 behind the league leading brewers).

 

after throwing 15 pitches on friday, knebel threw 13 pitches on tuesday, and 21 pitches on wednesday.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Thats great but how about a 6th or 7th inning arm to make sure Knebel's arm doesn't fall off. If Barnes and/or Knebel go down we're in big trouble. These guys have been pretty good.

[djoctagone]

there's an active thread for discussion on the personnel and use of the bullpen.

[wildcat2237]

Knebel is filthy.

 

I know I will get crucified for saying this, but I wonder what his trade value is?

 

If someone were to offer the Ken Giles package I would think the Brewers would need to at least think long and hard, regardless of whether they are contending.

[bjkrautk]

Am I the only person who doesn't really care if Knebel gets a strikeout every outing?

 

It's nice, but I wouldn't want him pitching to the record, rather than just focusing on getting hitters out and preserving leads in winnable games.

[liveforoctober]

Knebel is filthy.

 

I know I will get crucified for saying this, but I wonder what his trade value is?

 

If someone were to offer the Ken Giles package I would think the Brewers would need to at least think long and hard, regardless of whether they are contending.

 

The Brewers would be foolish not to check out the market for Knebel in a month +. My guess is we won’t get a “blown away” offer that it would take to deal him, but relievers are so up and down. He is our best trade chip right now and the price tag should be extremely high given our position in the division – but the conversations should absolutely take place.

[Greenleaf1]

I feel like if we're going to trade Knebel, it probably wouldn't be this year.

 

He has so much control left that it's sometimes hard to trade those players as you would be expecting HUGE value, as we would be pricing him based on his current performance level and add that he would have 4 1/2 years of control left at this year's trade deadline.

 

Add to that the fact that this is really his only great year so far, and I'm not 100% sure teams are going to want to give up the kind of haul we'd expect.

 

Our bullpen is also one of the biggest problems we have right now, and finding someone like Knebel on the open market is going to be incredibly expensive (and a trade would likely have us sending back all the prospects we get for Knebel anyway, effectively). I know Knebel is not guaranteed to maintain this level for the next few years, but at this point I feel like having that anchor in the back of the bullpen is necessary, and Barnes doesn't look at all ready to be that guy yet.

 

When we traded Jeffress/Smith, we knew Thornburg could step in, and when we traded him, we figured either Feliz or Knebel had a good chance to stick back there. At this point, Barnes doesn't even always look ready to hold down the 8th inning let alone the 9th (maybe one day), and the bullpen gets even thinner from there. Trading Knebel seems like something we'd do only if:

 

1. We were ABSOLUTELY BLOWN AWAY like 3 Top 100 prospects plus a few other guys, or

 

2. We waited until he got really expensive in arbitration and we had stronger bullpen options to replace him than we do now.

 

I just don't see the point in trading him now. Getting a cheap, lights out closer is rare, and unless we want to put a ton of money or a ton of prospects into that, we're not likely to get one any other way. Knebel might be a big key to us making the playoffs again, either this year or in the next few years.

[rickh150]

Am I the only person who doesn't really care if Knebel gets a strikeout every outing?

 

It's nice, but I wouldn't want him pitching to the record, rather than just focusing on getting hitters out and preserving leads in winnable games.

 

Pitching to the record?

This isn't like Villar getting the SB title and stealing bases when it is unwise. And he isn't in games that are blowouts, trying to get a K and risking walks. He is in with the game on the line and the K is his best friend. With strikeouts, there is no need to rely on defense, except catcher. Bloop hits don't happen on strikeouts either.

I hear what your saying respectfully, but Knebel isn't in situations that would warrant to primarily pitch to contact.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Knebel is filthy.

 

I know I will get crucified for saying this, but I wonder what his trade value is?

 

If someone were to offer the Ken Giles package I would think the Brewers would need to at least think long and hard, regardless of whether they are contending.

 

The Brewers would be foolish not to check out the market for Knebel in a month +. My guess is we won’t get a “blown away” offer that it would take to deal him, but relievers are so up and down. He is our best trade chip right now and the price tag should be extremely high given our position in the division – but the conversations should absolutely take place.

 

 

Knebel should bring north of what Thornberg brought IMHO. On the flipside the schedule gets very favorable until the end of July and maybe Braun and Villar could maybe further boost the offense and we add a middle guy. Things might get a touch interesting.

[CheezWizHed]

[sarcasm]I'm currently in discussions with gatewayredbirds.com to trade away wildcat2237 and liveforoctober for a bag of baseballs. They think its too high...[/sarcasm]

 

How many threads have to devolve into a trade away discussion???

[Ennder]

Knebel would have to bring back more than Chapman did last year to make it worth it. Teams would be trading for him this year plus 4 more years of control and then a possible draft pick. Chapman was a half season rental.

[MrTPlush]

[sarcasm]I'm currently in discussions with gatewayredbirds.com to trade away wildcat2237 and liveforoctober for a bag of baseballs. They think its too high...[/sarcasm]

 

How many threads have to devolve into a trade away discussion???

 

I vote we get a little more strict on keeping trade discussions in it's rightful forum. I understand it comes up sometimes in other discussions(and I am guilty of of it too sometimes), but my gosh I might go insane. Every thread I open is talking about trading said player or something along those lines.

[TURBO]

Am I the only person who doesn't really care if Knebel gets a strikeout every outing?

 

It's nice, but I wouldn't want him pitching to the record, rather than just focusing on getting hitters out and preserving leads in winnable games.

 

buzzkill

 

[Pugger]

Knebel is filthy.

 

I know I will get crucified for saying this, but I wonder what his trade value is?

 

If someone were to offer the Ken Giles package I would think the Brewers would need to at least think long and hard, regardless of whether they are contending.

 

The Brewers would be foolish not to check out the market for Knebel in a month +. My guess is we won’t get a “blown away” offer that it would take to deal him, but relievers are so up and down. He is our best trade chip right now and the price tag should be extremely high given our position in the division – but the conversations should absolutely take place.

 

But if we are still in first place or close to it in a month's time do we really want to trade Knebel? Good closers don't grow on trees.

[patrickgpe]

 

But if we are still in first place or close to it in a month's time do we really want to trade Knebel? Good closers don't grow on trees.

 

don't they. the closing position is the most fickle position on the diamond. While they may be dominent one season, the next season they could lose it in a second. How many dominent closers have the brewers had in the last 20 years that completely fell off the radar the next season (Axford, Kolb, Turnbow, Hoffmann, Doug Jones, Doug Henry, (I could go on). Also Knebels season came from nowhere - he showed nothing last season to make Stearns think he could close or they wouldn't have given Feliz 5.3MM to close.

 

i think if the brewers are in it, i wouldn't trade him, but if they do not feel they can pass the cubs, considering the market for closers, i would trade him to the highest bidder in a second.

[FVBrewerFan]

Am I the only person who doesn't really care if Knebel gets a strikeout every outing?

 

It's nice, but I wouldn't want him pitching to the record, rather than just focusing on getting hitters out and preserving leads in winnable games.

 

You're not the only one. This is one of those "records" that really has no historical significance. It's impressive, sure. I doubt anyone was even tracking this until Chapman did it. Would it be less impressive to NOT get a K in his first appearance of the year, then get one the next 50?

 

And let me be the 3rd or 4th person to say PLEASE stay away from any trade discussion here. There are other open threads devoted to that.

[Ennder]

All kinds of historical stats are meaningless though. The no hitter is just a worthless stat as an example. Some no hitters were really poorly pitched games where guys walked like 7 guys. Meanwhile the 1 hit, 15 K game gets no recognition. Baseball is riddled with meaningless stats that people worship.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Baseball is riddled with meaningless stats that people worship.

 

I don't totally agree with this but if somewhat true than I feel like WAR (Wins Above Replacement) is being treated like the 2nd coming of Jesus.

 

Current baseball statheads put WAY too much faith in that stat, IMHO.

[Lathund]

Baseball is riddled with meaningless stats that people worship.

 

I don't totally agree with this but if somewhat true than I feel like WAR (Wins Above Replacement) is being treated like the 2nd coming of Jesus.

 

Current baseball statheads put WAY too much faith in that stat, IMHO.

 

What do you think is wrong with WAR? How is it being overvalued? And what do you suggest we use instead?

[SoCalBrewfan]

How many dominent closers have the brewers had in the last 20 years that completely fell off the radar the next season (Axford, Kolb, Turnbow, Hoffmann, Doug Jones, Doug Henry, (I could go on). Also Knebels season came from nowhere - he showed nothing last season to make Stearns think he could close or they wouldn't have given Feliz 5.3MM to close.

 

Unlike many of those previous guys, who were waiver claims or other scrap heap acquisitions, Knebel has a pedigree...he was a first round draft choice after being a prominent closer and All-American at the University of Texas. He was a rated prospect with Detroit and then with Texas when we traded for him. It took him a while to adapt to the big leagues, yeah, but I think the Brewers were expecting him to play a significant role this year.

 

In other words, I don't think it's accurate to say he came out of nowhere...certainly not in the same way that, say, Axford came from an independent minor league to the Yankees farm system to out of baseball entirely to Brewers minor leagues to leading the NL in saves. Relievers can be inconsistent, but there's a pretty decent chance that Knebel is much more than a flash in the pan.

[MadScientist]

Am I the only person who doesn't really care if Knebel gets a strikeout every outing?

 

It's nice, but I wouldn't want him pitching to the record, rather than just focusing on getting hitters out and preserving leads in winnable games.

It doesn't look like he is. If he were pitching just to get strikeouts, there would be more nibbling and therefore more walks. Knebel is attacking hitters, getting ahead and putting them away. His stuff is good enough that he is getting a good number of strikeouts. The combination is exactly what you want in a closer.

[Ennder]

Baseball is riddled with meaningless stats that people worship.

 

I don't totally agree with this but if somewhat true than I feel like WAR (Wins Above Replacement) is being treated like the 2nd coming of Jesus.

 

Current baseball statheads put WAY too much faith in that stat, IMHO.

 

WAR definitely isn't perfect, especially for pitchers. The issue is there really isn't a perfect single stat you can use. WAR is something you go to because it is an objective measure with one single value so it is just easy to use.

[FVBrewerFan]

Hold the phone. You're doubting WAR??

 

[CheezWizHed]

Am I the only person who doesn't really care if Knebel gets a strikeout every outing?

 

Given how quickly this thread went to trades and WAR discussion... no I don't think you are the only one.

[MrTPlush]

I care about this record in the sense that striking out people that much and that consistently probably means you are doing insanely well. Which is true in this case.