Hader called up ......Espino optioned to triple A

[Thurston Fluff]

I think most managers would rather ease a young guy into the game rather than throw them right into the fire. Especially when it is a starter converted to the bullpen so it is already a situation he isn't fully used to. I know he has done some RP in the minors but his routine this year is as a starter.

 

You missed my point. Hader is a premier talent. The guy Counsell used instead is a fringe major league pitcher. It's comparable to bringing up Braun in 2007 and sitting him in favor of Counsell. Counsell has done a fine job this year but that doesn't make him immune to criticism. They've had trouble closing out games. A lot of that is on the pitchers but some of that is on the manager. Plus in last night's game they had a 4 run lead entering the bottom of the 7th. It was not a high leverage situation until Drake was roughed up.

 

Hader is a very good talent but he is not the next coming of Chapman or Kimbrel as a reliever. He could be very good and will probably have a nice career as a starter but he seems more like a two or very good three than an actual number one type to me.

[MrTPlush]

Josh Hader's control has never been good. Like many other pitchers with really good stuff he could just blow it past hitters. If you watch his starts he can still blow past hitters at AAA with his fastball. His control issues throughout his career haven't been walk issues, but actually spotting his pitches in the zone. It is concerning because at the MLB level there won't be lineups filled with guys who you can blow fastballs by 3 times a game. You have to learn how to spot it in the zone and not give it right over the plate.

[Oxy]

There's been more than a couple big lanky lefties who couldn't control their fastball in their youth, then found it as they matured. Randy Johnson comes to mind.

[MrTPlush]

There's been more than a couple big lanky lefties who couldn't control their fastball in their youth, then found it as they matured. Randy Johnson comes to mind.

 

When did Hader grow 8 inches?

[JohnBriggs12]

I think most managers would rather ease a young guy into the game rather than throw them right into the fire. Especially when it is a starter converted to the bullpen so it is already a situation he isn't fully used to. I know he has done some RP in the minors but his routine this year is as a starter.

 

You missed my point. Hader is a premier talent. The guy Counsell used instead is a fringe major league pitcher. It's comparable to bringing up Braun in 2007 and sitting him in favor of Counsell. Counsell has done a fine job this year but that doesn't make him immune to criticism. They've had trouble closing out games. A lot of that is on the pitchers but some of that is on the manager. Plus in last night's game they had a 4 run lead entering the bottom of the 7th. It was not a high leverage situation until Drake was roughed up.

 

Hader is a very good talent but he is not the next coming of Chapman or Kimbrel as a reliever. He could be very good and will probably have a nice career as a starter but he seems more like a two or very good three than an actual number one type to me.

 

You are aware Chapman walked 46 guys in his first 63 major league innings and he had worse control than Hader as a minor leaguer? Hader is a poor man's Chris Sale. Very close in stuff and delivery. You are understating Hader's ability just a bit. You don't get ranked as high as he's been with a ceiling of a number 3.

[JohnBriggs12]

There's been more than a couple big lanky lefties who couldn't control their fastball in their youth, then found it as they matured. Randy Johnson comes to mind.

 

When did Hader grow 8 inches?

 

He's 6'3". That qualifies as lanky to some. We're not talking Freddie Norman here. For you kids, Norman was a 5'8" lefty who was a pretty effective starter for the Reds back in the day.

[adambr2]

I'm curious as to why Hader was called up to see very little work out of the pen so far. It doesn't appear that Counsell has much faith in him, which is odd considering the performance of the rest of the pen besides Knebel. Hader is clearly behind Hughes and even Drake and Torres in terms of preference.

 

This isn't a Wei Chung Wang situation from a few years ago where we're just trying to hide a guy at the back of our pen. Hader is MLB ready to help the team out of the pen and if he's going to remain up its important that he see work in critical situations, both in terms of evaluation and because the rest of our pen has obviously been failing in those situations.

 

Sooner or later this season Knebel is going to wear down from overuse and we're going to need another pen arm to turn to in key situations, and we need to find out if Hader can be that guy. If we're not willing to do that he should head back down to Colorado Springs to continue to develop his craft.

[SomewhereInTime]

Well you'd think tomorrow would be the perfect day to use him for a couple innings regardless of the score, Knebal might be unavailable, maybe Barnes too.

[torts]

ya'll are nuts if you want to replace Knebel with Hader in the closers role.

[Lathund]

ya'll are nuts if you want to replace Knebel with Hader in the closers role.

 

I don't think anyone in this thread has even come close to suggesting that.

[torts]

Yeah, what an idiot manager Counsell is. This team would be 20 games over if it wasn't for him incompetence. Just put Hader in the closers role already.

[Lathund]

I'm not going to speak for Brew4U, but I'm 99,99% sure that's sarcasm.

[pacopete4]

Yeah, what an idiot manager Counsell is. This team would be 20 games over if it wasn't for him incompetence. Just put Hader in the closers role already.

 

 

 

I guess we have to use blue around here for everything. This was in response to JohnBriggs comment above mine. Holy hell though, I'm rolling on the floor thinking you thought this was even remotely serious. I'm sorry for the confusion.

[monty57]

So, he has 52 IP this season and will likely get around 40 or so more the rest of the season out of the Brewers' bullpen. He probably needs to get around 150 or so if they want him starting next year. That doesn't really make it seem like they're grooming our best starting pitching prospect since Gallardo or Sheets to be a future starter.

 

We're about a week in, and he has 1.1 IP. At 1.1 IP/week, he'd hit his 150 innings sometime in 2019 if he played baseball year-round.

[torts]

Yeah, what an idiot manager Counsell is. This team would be 20 games over if it wasn't for him incompetence. Just put Hader in the closers role already.

 

 

 

I guess we have to use blue around here for everything. This was in response to JohnBriggs comment above mine. Holy hell though, I'm rolling on the floor thinking you thought this was even remotely serious. I'm sorry for the confusion.

 

I never assume anything on here anymore!

[MrTPlush]

There's been more than a couple big lanky lefties who couldn't control their fastball in their youth, then found it as they matured. Randy Johnson comes to mind.

 

When did Hader grow 8 inches?

 

He's 6'3". That qualifies as lanky to some. We're not talking Freddie Norman here. For you kids, Norman was a 5'8" lefty who was a pretty effective starter for the Reds back in the day.

 

That is not lanky for a professional baseball player. Lanky for a pro ball player would be at least 6'5". 6'3" is more like the typical height not the height to start blaming your control on.

[brewcrewdue80]

Well good call on 2ip game. Too bad Davies only went 5 and had to be 6/7. So does that make 3.1ip in 1 week? Now wheres that translate full season?

[MrTPlush]

Well good call on 2ip game. Too bad Davies only went 5 and had to be 6/7. So does that make 3.1ip in 1 week? Now wheres that translate full season?

 

If I had the guess I think that is going to be one of the main jobs Hader will do. When they were prepping him for the bullpen role he was throwing 2 innings. So he may be doing the 6th and 7th a lot when the starter can't go 6 innings. I doubt we see him throwing the 7th and 8th all that often unless the normal back end is overworked the days prior.

[tmwiese55]

Problem is we have no normal backend other than Knebel. If he keeps performing he might end up being that guy before long