Luke Heimlich

[OnTheBlack]

You compared their moral decisions. Not in the same ballpark. The guy raped a 6 year old girl. If you think it’s fine for him to wear a Brewer uniform, that’s your opinion. I don’t. I don’t need to back down.

 

 

Not to quibble, but that's when he is accused of stopping. She was 4 when he started. And by the way, 13-15 sounds young, especially to me now(35). But I think back to that age and the things I was doing and......this isn't some clueless, "I'll show me yours if you show me mine" encounter by a couple of 4 year olds. You damn well know what you're doing at that age.

 

 

Again, I don't even KNOW that he did it. But to believe he did it and then compare his crime with even K-Rod's is pretty disgusting to me. They are NOT on the same spectrum.

 

Frankly, I don't think shooting someone in the head in a fight at the bar is on the same level as what this kid did. I can find a justification for just about any action(heat of the moment, he was scared for his life). But 24 MONTHS of molestation....nope, not on the same "line" as Ryan Braun using PED's.

[stavid_dearns]

 

 

I’m glad you’re not running the team. Comparing Braun to a child rapist is almost comical.

 

Did I say that? Anywhere? Nope, so back off. Didn’t even infer that.

 

 

Yeah, you absolutely did infer that. You inferred there was a line, then used Braun's past transgressions as one point in that line and then tried to in some ways justify what the young man was accused of when you advocated drafting him.

 

To be fair, he didn't infer that, but he definitely implied that.

[OnTheBlack]

I’m sorry you guys are having trouble reading. I NEVER compared Braun, Jeffress, or anyone else to Heimlich to justify what he did. I mentioned them as other moral wrong doings that we all seem to turn a blind eye to and was curious where one is suppose to draw the line? Never compared them or tried to use those to justify Heimlich.

 

I will always get a good chuckle when people turn into psychology experts and act like they know everything. Especially state their opinion as fact. All I am saying is if you think every 13-15 year old is at the same developmental age you are sadly mistaken.

 

I just find it interesting the weird line drawn on moral issues when it comes to sports. I didn’t even give an opinion on anyone I mentioned in my post. I just listed other players and there moral wrongdoings.

 

I'm sorry you're having trouble understanding what the word inference means. But when you say that you don't know where to draw the line, then you say look at what player A, B and C did, then go on to justify what player D did, you're absolutely comparing them and making an inference. It's really not difficult to understand. If Ryan Braun had nothing to do with your Heimlich, then why mention him in your post? Because you're using his actions to JUSTIFY your argument.

 

 

 

And you so clearly did give an opinion. You said "why not draft Heimlich," then everything else you said was an argument as to why we SHOULD draft him. Hence...your opinion. If you're embarrassed by it, just say you worded it incorrectly, but it's right there. You can't argue you didn't say what you said.

[MrTPlush]

Sorry my post was greatly taken out of proportion. I was curious where the line is drawn on moral issues. It just seems to taken some odd twists and turns when it comes to sports. It wasn’t meant to say if Heimlich isn’t okay then Braun isn’t. Not my point.

 

Really the Heimlich situation made me think of moral issues in general and how they get perceived in sports. Domestic violence in the NFL is a death sentence, but not so much in the MLB. DUIs in reality is really bad, but just ignored by fans in sports. Fernandez is probably the most extreme case that gets applauded after pretty bad stuff. Adrian Peterson is pretty normalized now even after whipping his own child.

 

No, that wasn’t my opinion. I was simply asking the question and then providing a different look. I still stated I wasn’t really sure what to think of him.

[SRB]

I'm not even sure why a juvenile's criminal record is public knowledge to be tabloid fodder for the sports media, but in any event this thread is a great example of why Heimlich is not worth the hassle for the 5% chance he ever becomes a productive major leaguer. The fact is, even valued at millions of dollars, these players are fairly interchangeable at this point in their careers.

[OnTheBlack]

 

[/quote[/i]]To be fair, he didn't infer that, but he definitely implied that.

 

 

Touche....he didn't infer there was a line, he literally said that part. The rest, implied or inferred is semantics. Ryan Braun, Jeremy Jefrress and even what K-Rod did should absolutely never be brought up to argue in the affirmative for someone whom you believe committed the crimes this young man was accused of and pleaded guilty.

 

If you want to argue for drafting him, again, I don't think it's a leap at all that the family decided to plead guilty because he would be allowed to enter a diversionary program and that it would be sealed 5 years after it happened.

 

But at that point, I'm gonna want the kid to take a polygraph and do a whole lot of investigating before I'd draft him...which I'm guessing many teams did.

[yoyomayoma]

I’m sorry you guys are having trouble reading. I NEVER compared Braun, Jeffress, or anyone else to Heimlich to justify what he did. I mentioned them as other moral wrong doings that we all seem to turn a blind eye to and was curious where one is suppose to draw the line? Never compared them or tried to use those to justify Heimlich.

 

I will always get a good chuckle when people turn into psychology experts and act like they know everything. Especially state their opinion as fact. All I am saying is if you think every 13-15 year old is at the same developmental age you are sadly mistaken.

 

I just find it interesting the weird line drawn on moral issues when it comes to sports. I didn’t even give an opinion on anyone I mentioned in my post. I just listed other players and there moral wrongdoings.

 

 

I wouldn’t sign him. You would consider it. I don’t feel the need to debate anything else. Raping a little girl is probably the worst thing a human being can do. If your question is where do we draw the line, that’s it. You can stop replying to me. There’s nothing else to say.

[DHonks]

I’m sorry you guys are having trouble reading. I NEVER compared Braun, Jeffress, or anyone else to Heimlich to justify what he did. I mentioned them as other moral wrong doings that we all seem to turn a blind eye to and was curious where one is suppose to draw the line? Never compared them or tried to use those to justify Heimlich.

 

I will always get a good chuckle when people turn into psychology experts and act like they know everything. Especially state their opinion as fact. All I am saying is if you think every 13-15 year old is at the same developmental age you are sadly mistaken.

 

I just find it interesting the weird line drawn on moral issues when it comes to sports. I didn’t even give an opinion on anyone I mentioned in my post. I just listed other players and there moral wrongdoings.

 

People also love to jump to conclusions. We don’t know what happened. We know the accusation and that he pled guilty. Is what he did worse than Yo? Driving at 3-times the legal limit is pretty severe and I was appalled that MLB didn’t suspend him. KRod abusing his girlfriend and his father-in-law is pretty bad. We acquired him what, 3-times? I didn’t do stupid stuff as a teen, but as a teacher I see kids all the tine doing stupid stuff. My point is that he’s served his punishment in the eyes of the law. I’m not sure I want the brewers to have him, but I don’t feel baseball should blackball him.

 

Edit- not to imply I see kids doing stupid stuff...obvious stories from around school are what I mean.

[yoyomayoma]

I’m sorry you guys are having trouble reading. I NEVER compared Braun, Jeffress, or anyone else to Heimlich to justify what he did. I mentioned them as other moral wrong doings that we all seem to turn a blind eye to and was curious where one is suppose to draw the line? Never compared them or tried to use those to justify Heimlich.

 

I will always get a good chuckle when people turn into psychology experts and act like they know everything. Especially state their opinion as fact. All I am saying is if you think every 13-15 year old is at the same developmental age you are sadly mistaken.

 

I just find it interesting the weird line drawn on moral issues when it comes to sports. I didn’t even give an opinion on anyone I mentioned in my post. I just listed other players and there moral wrongdoings.

 

People also love to jump to conclusions. We don’t know what happened. We know the accusation and that he pled guilty. Is what he did worse than Yo? Driving at 3-times the legal limit is pretty severe and I was appalled that MLB didn’t suspend him. KRod abusing his girlfriend and his father-in-law is pretty bad. We acquired him what, 3-times? I didn’t do stupid stuff as a teen, but as a teacher I see kids all the tine doing stupid stuff. My point is that he’s served his punishment in the eyes of the law. I’m not sure I want the brewers to have him, but I don’t feel baseball should blackball him.

 

I agree that everyone can make their own decision on him. I would hope Stearns doesn’t want to take that risk.

[OnTheBlack]

I'm not even sure why a juvenile's criminal record is public knowledge to be tabloid fodder for the sports media, but in any event this thread is a great example of why Heimlich is not worth the hassle for the 5% chance he ever becomes a productive major leaguer. The fact is, even valued at millions of dollars, these players are fairly interchangeable at this point in their careers.

 

 

Because he got into trouble for not registering as a sexual offender when he moved.....I believe. So that, coupled with the fact that he's a potential professional baseball player and he spoke publicly on the topic is why it's public information. I also don't believe he was charged initially as a juvenile. I believe it became a juvenile offense as part of the plea bargain. But I could be wrong.

[SRB]

Touche....he didn't infer there was a line, he literally said that part. The rest, implied or inferred is semantics. Ryan Braun, Jeremy Jefrress and even what K-Rod did should absolutely never be brought up to argue in the affirmative for someone whom you believe committed the crimes this young man was accused of and pleaded guilty.

 

Doesn't seem like a productive discussion to start arguing about an arbitrary hierarchy of crimes, including adult millionaire K-Rod physical assaulting the mother of his child and getting away with it without even facing public backlash. It's interesting (and good) how quickly MLB has changed with players like Osuna and Sano getting suspend this year, because MLB certainly did not care whatsoever even just a couple years ago.

 

Aroldis Chapman physically assaulted and fired a gun while threatening his girlfriend, was suspended briefly, and then got a $90 million contract from the biggest media market in sports.

[MrTPlush]

For right or wrong it will be interesting to see how his baseball career goes. Notable Oregon State and their fans seem to support him and cheer him on...so I’m not sure how that will change at the next level.

 

It already appears he could be pretty widely embraced...at least by his home team and fans. An anonymous executive thinks a team could handle the PR...but...I mean...man idk. Your talking about trotting out a guy in front of fathers with daughters at the game. That just sounds like a not so family friendly day at the ballpark.

[OnTheBlack]

Touche....he didn't infer there was a line, he literally said that part. The rest, implied or inferred is semantics. Ryan Braun, Jeremy Jefrress and even what K-Rod did should absolutely never be brought up to argue in the affirmative for someone whom you believe committed the crimes this young man was accused of and pleaded guilty.

 

Doesn't seem like a productive discussion to start arguing about an arbitrary hierarchy of crimes, including adult millionaire K-Rod physical assaulting the mother of his child and getting away with it without even facing public backlash. It's interesting (and good) how quickly MLB has changed with players like Osuna and Sano getting suspend this year, because MLB certainly did not care whatsoever even just a couple years ago.

 

 

Yeah, I never really knew the whole story there to be honest....just that there was some altercation.

 

The problem is "domestic violence," in and of itself is vague. When you see Ray Rice in the video....you know what you saw is awful. But there can also be a family argument and some relatively mundane actions that take place like grabbing women by the arm and leaving finger print marks. That's a place where you can use a sliding scale. Did you punch/strike the women, chock her or did you obstruct her while arguing...etc...etc....

 

 

Professional sports has done a better job of penalizing violent assaults in recent years....but there's still the stigma out there that athletes get in trouble for these actions more than average people, which is not the case. Just the opposite in fact.

 

 

Anyway, we're starting to get WAAAY off track.

[Jenkins5]

I don’t know.... I read the way he said he meant to. Plush is asking the question, where do you draw the line? Heimlich May or not be innocent of this, we will never know. Knowing someone who had been in that position I get the pressure to take the deal. Moreover, wasn’t his choice to make really. At 13-15 you know what’s going on with those actions but when it comes to legal issues.... no way. I teach kids that age in social studies & they are clueless. Lawyer & parents made choice that is what he needed to do.

 

Question is just where do you draw the line. If you believe he didn’t do it & has been outstanding human since. Is that enough? I think a man beating a women is awful. I think drunk driving & killing a man is awful. I think being arrested with trunk full of 100k, guns, and tons of cocaine is pretty bad... Rapping a drunk girl in bathroom stall violently while you entourage guard all the doors & refuse friend from helping her... terrible. Those guys have been found guilty (well Big Ben I think I got off) & teams in sports have openly held their arms out for them. A kid who may be innocent for one of the absolute worst types of crimes when he was 15.... I don’t know. Guess it comes down to if you truly believe he never did it. I’m a dad to an 8 year old daughter so personally if he really did it, no way does he deserve a chance. Can’t tell me a 7th-9th grader has no clue that pulling down a 4-6 year olds pants & doing what is claimed is awful & wrong! But I don’t know the kid & if he did actually did it. All gray area. I say no for Brewers though. PR nightmare & while very good, not worth it. Too awful of a crime he is accused of.

[3and2Fastball]

Can you guys start a separate thread about Heimlich?

 

I was enjoying the discussion about the actual Brewers draft picks.

[OnTheBlack]

I’m sorry you guys are having trouble reading. I NEVER compared Braun, Jeffress, or anyone else to Heimlich to justify what he did. I mentioned them as other moral wrong doings that we all seem to turn a blind eye to and was curious where one is suppose to draw the line? Never compared them or tried to use those to justify Heimlich.

 

I will always get a good chuckle when people turn into psychology experts and act like they know everything. Especially state their opinion as fact. All I am saying is if you think every 13-15 year old is at the same developmental age you are sadly mistaken.

 

I just find it interesting the weird line drawn on moral issues when it comes to sports. I didn’t even give an opinion on anyone I mentioned in my post. I just listed other players and there moral wrongdoings.

 

People also love to jump to conclusions. We don’t know what happened. We know the accusation and that he pled guilty. Is what he did worse than Yo? Driving at 3-times the legal limit is pretty severe and I was appalled that MLB didn’t suspend him. KRod abusing his girlfriend and his father-in-law is pretty bad. We acquired him what, 3-times? I didn’t do stupid stuff as a teen, but as a teacher I see kids all the tine doing stupid stuff. My point is that he’s served his punishment in the eyes of the law. I’m not sure I want the brewers to have him, but I don’t feel baseball should blackball him.

 

Edit- not to imply I see kids doing stupid stuff...obvious stories from around school are what I mean.

 

 

I full agree with what you said. I've not taken a position on drafting him because....again, I do find it logical that he could have pled guilty thinking that in 5 years, this would be totally over with and nobody would ever know as opposed to a very public trial where he's treated as an adult. That said, the accusation was that he did this for two years. I've also worked in schools and the "kids do stupid stuff" argument isn't flying with me with regard to these accusations. I did stupid stuff. This is beyond stupid and it's sick stuff.

 

Anyway, I had one student...a REALLY great kid, valedictorian, full scholarship to Brown...he was turned 18, about 3 weeks later his 17 year old girlfriend sent him a picture..she was just weeks from her own birthday. She showed 3 students, kids talked, the parents found out. Bam, he has to register as a sex offender, scholarship revoked and he had to plead guilty to distributing child porn because he sent it to one of his friends.

 

So things can be very different when you dig into them.

 

 

But for the sake of this discussion, lets not forget, the comment that created the backlash was not disputing or in any way questioning the accusations. It was taking them at face value and then still advocating for the young man to be drafted. So I get your post. You don't know what happened, the legal system can be tricky and make people plead guilty when actually innocent, but he actually talked about how he may not have known what he was doing(or something to that affect) and massaged the accusations in other ways. That was part of what I found troubling.

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

https://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/385703-274945-penalties-paid-heimlich-ready-to-return-for-beavers-baseball

 

Thought this was an interesting read on Heinrich. Not sure what to believe. Sad if he truly didn’t do it though.

[OnTheBlack]

I don’t know.... I read the way he said he meant to. Plush is asking the question, where do you draw the line? Heimlich May or not be innocent of this, we will never know. Knowing someone who had been in that position I get the pressure to take the deal. Moreover, wasn’t his choice to make really. At 13-15 you know what’s going on with those actions but when it comes to legal issues.... no way. I teach kids that age in social studies & they are clueless. Lawyer & parents made choice that is what he needed to do.

 

Question is just where do you draw the line. If you believe he didn’t do it & has been outstanding human since. Is that enough? I think a man beating a women is awful. I think drunk driving & killing a man is awful. I think being arrested with trunk full of 100k, guns, and tons of cocaine is pretty bad... Rapping a drunk girl in bathroom stall violently while you entourage guard all the doors & refuse friend from helping her... terrible. Those guys have been found guilty (well Big Ben I think I got off) & teams in sports have openly held their arms out for them. A kid who may be innocent for one of the absolute worst types of crimes when he was 15.... I don’t know. Guess it comes down to if you truly believe he never did it. I’m a dad to an 8 year old daughter so personally if he really did it, no way does he deserve a chance. Can’t tell me a 7th-9th grader has no clue that pulling down a 4-6 year olds pants & doing what is claimed is awful & wrong! But I don’t know the kid & if he did actually did it. All gray area. I say no for Brewers though. PR nightmare & while very good, not worth it. Too awful of a crime he is accused of.

 

First of all, yes, we should start another thread.

Second, if he was "just" asking the question, then don't qualify it by using what Ryan Braun, Jeffress or K-Rod did. Don't justify it by saying not all 15 year old's are as mature as others(or however it was worded) and don't advocate.

 

Ask the question like you did. If there is some debate as to his innocence(and I know that Keith Law and one other GM doesn't believe there is for whatever that is worth).

 

But what it would come down to for me is a invasive investigation by the team, I would demand a polygraph, psych reports and more, FAR more than you'd ever ask a normal player for and if he agreed and passed, I might take a chance on him and deal with the backlash.

 

If there was any doubt however, or if you think he did it, no way. If you believe he did it, then he's almost certainly going to do it again as that's just the way his brain his wired.

[MrTPlush]

The conversation is way off topic so this will be my last post in the discussion threads:

 

Whether you think it is possible he didn’t do it or not it doesn’t matter. You would be drafting someone who plead guilty and that is how he will be viewed. You have to take on the PR monster of a guilty man, because that’s how the justice system decided it.

 

I’d guess any team thinking about drafting him sees the way Oregon State and their fans treat him as hope you could get past any negative PR pretty easily.

[SeaBass]

All I'll say about the Heimlich thing is that he is a free man, clear of the law and served his time. I'm not going to feel the least bit sorry for the guy if he never plays for a Major League baseball team or its affiliate because he did something in the past and his actions had these consequences. He still gets to live his life prison free. Not everyone in his situation is as lucky.

[LouisEly]

https://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/385703-274945-penalties-paid-heimlich-ready-to-return-for-beavers-baseball

 

Thought this was an interesting read on Heinrich. Not sure what to believe. Sad if he truly didn’t do it though.

This is a must-read.

[LouisEly]

All I'll say about the Heimlich thing is that he is a free man, clear of the law and served his time. I'm not going to feel the least bit sorry for the guy if he never plays for a Major League baseball team or its affiliate because he did something in the past and his actions had these consequences. He still gets to live his life prison free. Not everyone in his situation is as lucky.

Please read the article that jimmyjeromehardy7 quoted.

[SeaBass]

I've read enough. He signed an official admission of guilt. Could that have been a decision to avoid a worse sentence? Sure. Only people that know for sure is the guy and the victim. He admitted guilt. Everything else is excuses.

[StearnsFTW]

https://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/385703-274945-penalties-paid-heimlich-ready-to-return-for-beavers-baseball

 

Thought this was an interesting read on Heinrich. Not sure what to believe. Sad if he truly didn’t do it though.

 

Thanks for sharing. That's the best article I've read on the topic in terms of laying out facts.

[xisxisxis]

Pretty simple to me. He served his punishment and has shown no signs that the behavior (whether he did or didn't do it) would be repeated. I wouldn't hesitate to take him if I was a GM and would be ready to justify the decision. I understand the frustration that victims and their families feel about the system, but from all indications Luke and his circumstances aren't the type of case you make an example of and try to ruin someones life. He served his punishment. He should be treated as such, not vilified forever. Whether he did it or didn't. period. We either have a legal system with punishment we agree upon as a society or we have mob rule and punishment that is proportionate to the victims/families outrage.

 

Grabbing pitch forks and storming the castle hasn't really worked for... ever...