Braun Back on the DL

[MrTPlush]

checks Puig's War

 

it's 0.0

 

shrugs shoulders

 

So a cheaper/younger version of Braun?

[Boomer5]

checks Puig's War

 

it's 0.0

 

shrugs shoulders

 

So a cheaper/younger version of Braun?

 

I know that appears to be a snide remark but I just looked it up. BR has him at a Dean Wormer Zero point Zero.

 

Fangraphs has him at a more robust 0.3 with a year long projection of 1.2.

 

I think we can retire the what can we get for Braun thread.

[adambr2]

Puig's value relative to Braun is less about his production this year and much more about his age and upside and the potential dead money on Braun the next few years if he can't stay healthy.

 

Honestly, if Braun went on a little hot healthy streak and the Dodgers got impatient and wanted to offer up Puig straight up for Braun, I'd pounce on it.

 

Puig's contract is no-lose. If he continues to suck even after a change of scenery, he's on the books through next season at $7.5M and we can be done with him. And he isn't going to block anyone at 7.5M. Meanwhile if he returns to being a solid player we control him through 2019 and can decide whether to trade him or try to extend him.

[bill hAll Star]

This is showing exactly why I (along with many others) wanted Braun traded this past offseason. When healthy he's still a great hitter, but he's always one step away from a visit to the disabled list, and he is on the wrong side of 30, so his skills are going to diminish over the course of his contract.

 

I think almost any Brewer fan not attached to some nostalgia of Braun or one that "shows up to the park to see Braun" would love to have traded Braun. The reality of it is that not a ton was being offered.

 

A lot of people wanted Lucroy traded during his degraded/injured season 2 years ago or before he fully recouped his value. You win some, you lose some by waiting. The only thing is I don't think the Brewers "lost" this one yet or at the very least by a wide margin.

 

Braun's contract doesn't inhibit the Brewers from doing anything they want over the next 3-4 years both 25-man roster payroll-wise or international signings-wise and he may still yet either generate value for the Brewers or get trade value down the road. If he ends up having to rot in an injured/bench role until the conclusion of 2020, I don't think it is going to be too consequential.

[bill hAll Star]

Puig's value relative to Braun is less about his production this year and much more about his age and upside and the potential dead money on Braun the next few years if he can't stay healthy.

 

Honestly, if Braun went on a little hot healthy streak and the Dodgers got impatient and wanted to offer up Puig straight up for Braun, I'd pounce on it.

 

Puig's contract is no-lose. If he continues to suck even after a change of scenery, he's on the books through next season at $7.5M and we can be done with him. And he isn't going to block anyone at 7.5M. Meanwhile if he returns to being a solid player we control him through 2019 and can decide whether to trade him or try to extend him.

 

I was one that was intrigued by Puig's name coming in with Braun for exactly those reasons and I'd still welcome the trade, but I think Braun's remaining salary is being overblown. Would I love to have that extra $18 and $17 million in 2019 and 2020 available? Yeah. Is it going to matter if we end up having to sit on Braun? Not that much.

 

If things go right, our starting 9's total salary in 2019 should be about $20 million. Add Braun and a bench, rest of rotation, bullpen and Mark still has $50+ million to work with in a year that we probably won't want to add a ton of contracts. If we're seriously thinking of adding that much salary that season or the one after, we're probably going to be adding a lot more substantial overpaid risks than what we're sitting on with Braun right now.

 

Heck, your last sentence about Puig is almost as risky as Braun. You noted that if he plays well, we can try to extend him. That may be unlikely, but again, I'd be quite scared of a Puig contract from 2018-2023 or something in that range.

[owbc]

I'm not convinced Puig has more upside than Braun. Braun produces when he's healthy. Puig hasn't done anything for 2 1/2 years.

 

As others have said, the difference is salary, but the Brewers are sitting on piles of cash so it's not that big of a deal.

 

The ship sailed on the Puig trade so it's purely hypothetical.

[LouisEly]

Why leave out Cooper who's had the hottest bat at AAA all year? He did play LF in 23 games last year and he has a higher OPS on the road (1.102) than he does at home (.876). Now if this injury was season ending, sure bring up Brinson. But it's an aggravation of a minor injury not involving a joint. DFA Franklin and add Cooper and give him some starts in LF. See what you have.

The answer is because the pitching needs all the defensive help they can get, thus bring up a real OF who is a good defender in addition to a good bat.

 

Whoever they call up won't sit the bench - he will take Braun's place in the starting lineup. Perez is fine for an occasional start, but I'd rather have the experience and athleticism of a Brinson/Phillips/Cordell. Perez has a nice arm, but the three CS OFs are, IMO, better defensively. It's a prime opportunity to get their feet wet and get the major league jitters out of the way.

[TURBO]

With all due respect to those who want to forever hate Braun because of his positive test in 2011, I think that on the whole, Ryan Braun is and should be remembered for providing the fans with some wonderful memories of Brewers baseball at a time when the franchise was finally emerging from a quarter century drought. Without Braun there is no Wild Card in 2008 or NLDS win in 2011. I love the memories that he has provided me over my years as a fan and am rooting for him everyday he's wearing the Brewers uniform. I think that maybe it's a bit much to expect these guys to be perfect or to look up to them as heroes. They are guys who can play a kids game incredibly well. Would I prefer athletes to carry themselves with dignity and class; absolutely. They should strive for excellence. But baseball is a game (the greatest in the world of course), and it's a game played by humans who are not playing it to help society but to make money doing something they love. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I would much rather have my son admire Nobel prize winners, transformational thinkers, soldiers, and inventors than kids who put on a uniform and play a game. Bottom line is that I don't know Ryan Braun personally (so can't really judge him) and I don't need Ryan Braun to be perfect because what he does in his life doesn't effect me in my own. I want him to hustle between the lines and to try and win games for a team that I love. Anything else is just gravy.

 

Really wish this board had a "like" button.

 

[adambr2]

FWIW Counsell and Stearns both said Braun wasn't rushed back, that all indications were that he was good to go.

[homer]

Why leave out Cooper who's had the hottest bat at AAA all year? He did play LF in 23 games last year and he has a higher OPS on the road (1.102) than he does at home (.876). Now if this injury was season ending, sure bring up Brinson. But it's an aggravation of a minor injury not involving a joint. DFA Franklin and add Cooper and give him some starts in LF. See what you have.

The answer is because the pitching needs all the defensive help they can get, thus bring up a real OF who is a good defender in addition to a good bat.

 

Whoever they call up won't sit the bench - he will take Braun's place in the starting lineup. Perez is fine for an occasional start, but I'd rather have the experience and athleticism of a Brinson/Phillips/Cordell. Perez has a nice arm, but the three CS OFs are, IMO, better defensively. It's a prime opportunity to get their feet wet and get the major league jitters out of the way.

 

I'm wary of Cooper. Guy is all of a sudden slugging 140 points above his career? Seems like a fluke.

[jerichoholicninja]

FWIW Counsell and Stearns both said Braun wasn't rushed back, that all indications were that he was good to go.

 

This shouldn't surprise anyone. Countless times in his career Braun has been deemed "healthy" only to not be healthy a few days later.

[logan82]

It isn't so much about the money as he is taking a spot that we may want to use for a younger player. That was one reason to move him in the offseason. I would hate to bring up a young potential star and split time with Braun. The other was his age and the strong possibility he would not be able to stay healthy. A season like this was always a strong possibility when Braun signed his second extension. This is a large part of the reason why some people thought it was unnecessary. Braun has always had core muscle issues through out his career. He hasn't missed much time because of them but they have impacted his performance and there was always the possibility it would flare up and he would miss time.

[Pugger]

Back to Braun going on the DL, I think Stearns/Counsell would be nuts not to call up one of their OFs (Brinson, Cordell, Phillips) from AAA. With Thames and his hamstring issues I do not want to see him in the OF any time soon.

 

One unfortunate thing about all these bumps and bruises is if we want to trade him later this summer it will not be easy. What team - even an AL team with the DH - is going to want an injury prone 33 year old player? I have a feeling we are stuck with him.

[Ennder]

Back to Braun going on the DL, I think Stearns/Counsell would be nuts not to call up one of their OFs (Brinson, Cordell, Phillips) from AAA. With Thames and his hamstring issues I do not want to see him in the OF any time soon.

 

One unfortunate thing about all these bumps and bruises is if we want to trade him later this summer it will not be easy. What team - even an AL team with the DH - is going to want an injury prone 33 year old player? I have a feeling we are stuck with him.

 

 

Yankees or Astros if their older than 36 year old injury prone guys happen to get hurt at some point.

[markedman5]

Braun isn't approving a trade to the Yankees or Astros.

[adambr2]

Braun isn't approving a trade to the Yankees or Astros.

 

This. I wouldn't bother speculating on the Yankees or Astros since Braun won't go there.

 

I actually think our best shot, if they can stay somewhat in contention, might be the Angels. If they go on a little run and want to buy, they really don't have any top prospects to pull off a blockbuster, but they could afford to take on Braun, so that could be their best way to add a major piece without giving up much, and Braun would probably go there. Best part for both sides is the DH opportunity.

 

Angels are an old team and probably won't keep Trout forever so its possible they may want to try something now.

[jerichoholicninja]

Braun isn't approving a trade to the Yankees or Astros.

 

This. I wouldn't bother speculating on the Yankees or Astros since Braun won't go there.

 

I actually think our best shot, if they can stay somewhat in contention, might be the Angels. If they go on a little run and want to buy, they really don't have any top prospects to pull off a blockbuster, but they could afford to take on Braun, so that could be their best way to add a major piece without giving up much, and Braun would probably go there. Best part for both sides is the DH opportunity.

 

Angels are an old team and probably won't keep Trout forever so its possible they may want to try something now.

 

Albert Pujols kind of has the DH spot locked down for the next 4.5 years. I suppose they could share it but both are RHB and neither should play in the field.

[adambr2]

Braun isn't approving a trade to the Yankees or Astros.

 

This. I wouldn't bother speculating on the Yankees or Astros since Braun won't go there.

 

I actually think our best shot, if they can stay somewhat in contention, might be the Angels. If they go on a little run and want to buy, they really don't have any top prospects to pull off a blockbuster, but they could afford to take on Braun, so that could be their best way to add a major piece without giving up much, and Braun would probably go there. Best part for both sides is the DH opportunity.

 

Angels are an old team and probably won't keep Trout forever so its possible they may want to try something now.

 

Albert Pujols kind of has the DH spot locked down for the next 4.5 years. I suppose they could share it but both are RHB and neither should play in the field.

 

Yeah, that make it less likely then. Thought he was still getting some time at 1st. I don't know how badly his skills at 1st have eroded, but if Braun could DH half the time and spend the other half in LF that would still be a lot better.

[TURBO]

Braun isn't approving a trade to the Yankees or Astros.

 

Actually, no one has any idea what he would do if given the option.

 

Also, imo, no AL team is going to want Braun to play in the field, if he is traded, it will be to DH... Again, these are opinions, so I won't state them as factual.

[adambr2]

Braun isn't approving a trade to the Yankees or Astros.

 

Actually, no one has any idea what he would do if given the option.

 

Also, imo, no AL team is going to want Braun to play in the field, if he is traded, it will be to DH... Again, these are opinions, so I won't state them as factual.

 

I can't guarantee Braun won't go to the Yankees or Astros, but based on the evidence, his no trade clause, the fact that he says he thinks he will finish his career here, the fact that he says he either wants to be here or out west, I can say the evidence points to it being highly unlikely.

[pacopete4]

Houston and Texas play out west a lot and being even closer to his home are two factors that could intrigue him if that team is running away with it. Never know.