Trade a Catcher

[Greenleaf1]

What are the chances we trade Manny Pina or Jett Bandy at the trade deadline?

 

I know they're both controllable for many years and having them both is good protection in case one of them starts to regress, but would it be worth trying to cash in on their hot start and get something for one of these catchers? Pina seems to be the better all around player so far, could we flip Bandy at the deadline for something much better than what we gave up for him?

 

The Diamondbacks have been off to a good start but need help at catcher, they could be a good match.

 

DBacks catchers:

Chris Iannetta .214/.279/.339 in 61 PA (16/4 K/BB)

Jeff Mathis .131/.145/.262 in 62 PA (20/1 K/BB)

 

Brewers catchers:

Manny Pina .313/.352/.448 in 72 PA (8/4 K/BB)

Jett Bandy .281/.333/.531 in 69 PA (15/4 K/BB)

 

We have 3 catchers at AAA that could all probably do a serviceable job as a backup (I know Susac is doing pretty bad since coming back, but between Heineman/Garcia/Susac there should be an ok backup for the rest of the year somewhere in there).

 

I know catchers don't often get traded at the deadline (Lucroy was a notable exception) and you don't want to mess with a good thing, trade away the wrong one of the two, have the other regress and be stuck back where we were with no good catchers, but this is a position of relative depth for us right now and it seems like it could be a place where we could get a really good return potentially.

 

What do you guys think?

[MrTPlush]

Zero because it would be foolish to think either is even nearly as good as their stats show. Both are maybe MAYBE average.

[CheezWizHed]

I think people need to stop looking at 1 months worth of stats to make decisions. GMs don't.

[Brewcrewin07]

It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.

[JohnBriggs12]

It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.

 

 

Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!

[Brewcrewin07]

It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.

 

 

Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!

 

Exactly! I mean I don't get why some people here don't understand that a lot of the players the Crew has now are young, and part of the future..You look back on all the trade threads here though, and you can find one for a vast majority of players currently on the roster...a lot of which should be part of the future, not trade bait. It almost makes me wonder if a vast majority here will be literally PO'd if the Brewers are in it at the deadline, and don't trade anyone?? That would really baffle me if that happened, but I can almost guarantee some here will be mad about it.

[leitermab07]

It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.

 

 

Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!

 

Exactly! I mean I don't get why some people here don't understand that a lot of the players the Crew has now are young, and part of the future..You look back on all the trade threads here though, and you can find one for a vast majority of players currently on the roster...a lot of which should be part of the future, not trade bait. It almost makes me wonder if a vast majority here will be literally PO'd if the Brewers are in it at the deadline, and don't trade anyone?? That would really baffle me if that happened, but I can almost guarantee some here will be mad about it.

 

If you don't think they are as good as their stats say that is when you would trade them.. ever heard of sell high? .. That's what you do before the league gets a book on them.. I agree they shouldn't trade either because there is no catcher in the weeds other than an 18 yr old Feliciano in A ball.. but to say you don't trade good players is not correct. It is all situational.. you are not going to get alot for either guy so hold on to them and see what we got

[adambr2]

I agree that it's all situational. The franchise needs to be open to all different avenues of putting this club in the best possible situation in both the short and long term, and I think Stearns is.

 

So yeah, always consider the situation. It's silly IMO to say you're always going to hold onto good players. Sometimes, for various reasons the best course of action will be to trade them. Teams generally aren't interested in garbage players in trade, they do prefer good ones. It was only 10 months ago that we traded Lucroy, and now he's 2/3rds of a really good up and coming outfield in Colorado Springs plus a top 100 pitcher in Biloxi. How much of a mistake would it have been to hold onto him, and how far back would we have set the rebuild by not doing so?

 

That said, I don't see either of Bandy and Pina getting traded. Both are highly controlled and we have a pretty good situation going on with them splitting reps at catcher. Pair that with the fact that I don't think either have enough established success yet to bring in any offers that make it worthwhile.

[LouisEly]

I agree they shouldn't trade either because there is no catcher in the weeds other than an 18 yr old Feliciano in A ball..

Except for Susac in AAA. Thus the impetus for trying to sell high on Pina or Bandy.

[brewcrewdue80]

I wouldnt be surprised if its Susac that gets traded and Pina/Bandy stick around. Seen somewhere someone exclaim the amount of thrown out at 2nd picking off a too far off the base runner, being than ever seen for a season. I agree both arent just doing it at the plate, but with their arms. If Feliciano is in A ball. 3years of this I certainly can stomach.

 

I said at beginning of season Susac could be the winner out of the three catching Hader and Woodruff. If either of those two command Susac be their personal catcher he may wind up sticking with Milw longer than Pina or Bandy. If that's not happening, I'd look for a team to take Susac with Stearns being stearn on not trading Pina/Bandy.

[adambr2]

I agree they shouldn't trade either because there is no catcher in the weeds other than an 18 yr old Feliciano in A ball..

Except for Susac in AAA. Thus the impetus for trying to sell high on Pina or Bandy.

 

Selling high like what? I can't imagine that a guy who was worth Martin Maldonado and a throw-in before the season is suddenly worth a lot more after a month. You're obviously not getting a Lucroy return like last year. Unless someone is offering up a very high ceiling pitching prospect I don't get the motivation to move either, especially with Susac not exactly lighting it up for the Sky Sox.

[Never Outhustled]

It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.

 

 

Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!

 

That sounds like what Doug Melvin did, and that failed pretty consistently. I love how Sterns has traded good players to open spots for better players.

 

That said, I think I would wait to deal a catcher. While I believe both are actually good, I think they're still both building their league wide reputations. Waiting allows Susac, Heineman, and Houle time to develop.

[pacopete4]

Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!

 

That sounds like what Doug Melvin did, and that failed pretty consistently.

 

Doug Melvin took his chances with the windows he had to compete. If he sells off all of our stars (Braun, Fielder, Gallardo, etc...) Maybe we never even make it back to .500 or to the NLCS or the playoffs twice. Maybe they sell off and they get better players but there's always the possibility that you miss your window and never do anything either. The Brewers will be having their window come open (and maybe sooner than people thought) and eventually will have to make their decisions again. Have to try to win something at some point though otherwise, what is the point?

[wallus]

It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.

 

You do realize you are in the Transaction Rumors/Proposals forum right?

[FVBrewerFan]

It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.

 

 

Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!

 

Exactly! I mean I don't get why some people here don't understand that a lot of the players the Crew has now are young, and part of the future..You look back on all the trade threads here though, and you can find one for a vast majority of players currently on the roster...a lot of which should be part of the future, not trade bait. It almost makes me wonder if a vast majority here will be literally PO'd if the Brewers are in it at the deadline, and don't trade anyone?? That would really baffle me if that happened, but I can almost guarantee some here will be mad about it.

 

Yes, I'll be one that will literally be PO'd if they don't trade anyone.

 

Since Stearns has arrived, the following players have moved on- almost all due to trades. Lucroy, Segura, Gomez, Davis, Gennett, Carter. That's a lot of fire power right? Yet they are putting up more runs than ever. Players that replaced them were had for close to nothing. And in the process, we now have one of the top farm systems instead of one of the worse.

 

So what are we afraid of? If a couple bats are traded away, they can be replaced- either with our own prospects or Stearns finding another diamond in the rough. He's done it over and over again with Carter, Thames, Aguilar, Villar, Shaw, Broxton, Pina, Bandy...

 

Doesn't do us any good to score a bunch of runs when the pitching is horrible. And that's not the easy fix a lot of people seem to think it is. That's why it's important to keep acquiring talent. You hope a couple pitchers emerge, and/or you have more and more assets to trade at some point for pitching.

 

Or, you know, we could keep doing what we did for the past 50 years. Try to be just "good enough" to be interesting. I rather stick to the plan of building this team up to the point where they can be a true contender for more than one flash in the pan year.

[Oxy]

Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!

 

That sounds like what Doug Melvin did, and that failed pretty consistently.

 

Have to try to win something at some point though otherwise, what is the point?

 

 

To make massive year-to-year profits, making the books look good to eventually sell the team for a head shaking return?

[pacopete4]

 

Have to try to win something at some point though otherwise, what is the point?

 

 

To make massive year-to-year profits, making the books look good to eventually sell the team for a head shaking return?

 

Yeah there is definitely something to that too. Some owners more than others.

[MrTPlush]

It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.

 

 

Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!

 

That sounds like what Doug Melvin did, and that failed pretty consistently. I love how Sterns has traded good players to open spots for better players.

 

That said, I think I would wait to deal a catcher. While I believe both are actually good, I think they're still both building their league wide reputations. Waiting allows Susac, Heineman, and Houle time to develop.

 

Doug Melvin did what Attanasio told him to. He was driving a car with a gun to his head basically. Stearns has gotten the luxury to do what he wants whenever.

[rickh150]

Let's let the catching spot play itself out-

two young catchers, low salary...

Between the two, one should be avg; who that will be is anyone's guess...

Trading one will not bring much back now. Why would it?

 

It's been fun watching them play. Their d has been impressive too.

[Sixto]

It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.

 

Those are the same guys that wanted every bullpen arm traded the last two years, and then start a discussion about how the bullpen sucks.

Some people love the agony of the never ending tank mode

[paul253]

Those are the same guys that wanted every bullpen arm traded the last two years, and then start a discussion about how the bullpen sucks.

Some people love the agony of the never ending tank mode

 

Some people also realize that sometimes your team is going nowhere and trading away certain players, like bulllpen arms last year whose value was through the roof, is the best course of action. I don't know if you prefer the "stay put and maybe all of our guys will all of a sudden get really really good" model but as another poster pointed out we tried that and it didn't work.

 

The key to this thing is pitching and, let's face it, we don't have it. At least we didn't the last few years when we threw some pretty bad teams out there. But thanks to trading away some of our guys we acquired three pretty decent young arms in Hader Ortiz and Bickford. And who knows if any of them will have any major league success but I do know we weren't exactly celebrating championship after championship with the guys we used to get them. And all of those guys were nearing the end of their contracts with us so we also could have lost them for nothing. Again, not a great strategy for us.

 

We all want to win. We just don't always agree on the best way to do it. I personally think what they did, in trading away all the expensive veterans whose contracts were nearing an end and who clearly weren't producing championships for us, was the best way to go.

 

Now as far as trading a catcher. I'm fine with it if A: you believe whoever you hold onto can handle full time catching duty and B: you get good enough value. If you believe they're both playing over their heads and will come back to earth soon then trade them both.

[Greenleaf1]

I think Garcia and Houle made enough of an impression that they could take on backup catching duties over the next couple years (Susac seems kinda like a bust so far, but still holding out a little hope for him).

 

Bandy seems like he has taken a step forward this year offensively. Not sure what to think yet about his defense (Pina definitely looks better there), but he's certainly looking like he'd be more valuable in a trade now (I mean holy hell we only gave up a light hitting backup catcher who costs more for less control and a nobody reliever who probably isn't even good enough to be a AAAA guy - Angles gave up Bandy for nothing).

 

My guess is a trade now makes zero sense. Let them play this out for a whole year, see if one guy distinguishes himself, and if you still have something going with both guys at the end of the year, don't be afraid to maximize value while you can and maybe include him in a trade for something bigger. If whoever is left behind can't hold onto the job from there, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it but honestly Pina looks like the real deal to me ever since he joined our organization, no matter how old he is.

[gregmag]

It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.

 

Those are the same guys that wanted every bullpen arm traded the last two years, and then start a discussion about how the bullpen sucks.

Some people love the agony of the never ending tank mode

You're making this up. Nobody actually did that. Because people here aren't stupid. If you're going to throw around accusations of hypocrisy or stupidity, please provide actual examples and illustrations, rather than imaginary "same guys" and "some people."

[brewerfan82]

It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.

Of course people want to trade players at some point. That's how the league is setup. Wouldn't you rather have 5 years of a player plus 6 years each of multiple players received in a trade, than 6 years of the same player plus nothing? Building a baseball franchise is asset management. Having players over-perform so you can potentially get more value for them than they're worth should always be something you're rooting for. If you can't afford to trade a player or two in their final contract year and still be competitive, you're not at the point that you need to be to start neglecting the long term outlook of the team in order to optimize the current team's chances at winning a World Series.

[NievesNoNO]

At this point they're probably more valuable to the Brewers than what somebody would be willing to give up. I mean, never say never on anybody but for now while they are playing well it's nice to have them both as backup catcher doesn't feel like a wasted roster spot.