What could Braun bring from anyone? (2017 version)

[adambr2]

I think it should be noted that the Dodgers are a very good team right now. The odds are that, even without any further moves, they are a playoff caliber team.

 

Thus, they can retool or tweak or whatever they need to do during the season. For them, they don't need to be set for the season on March 31. They need to be set on July 31 (or even August 31).

 

The wise thing for a team like LA is to not make moves unless it's on their terms. They can take the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the season and see where they are at - and then make the adjustments. If at that time they see Braun - or anyone else - as essential to a World Series run - then they can make their move. Holding onto their prospects just gives them more bullets to spend at the deadline - assuming they even need to make a big move.

 

This is spot on. We simply have no leverage with Braun. He has a limited market, and the 1 or 2 teams that make sense see him as an expensive luxury, not a necessity.

 

It's possible that changes in the next year but right now, that's where we're at. If I were the Dodgers GM I'd be approaching it exactly how they are. The ball is in their court and they know it. They still have Puig in their back pocket and seem perfectly content to let it ride with him. If he rebounds to 2013/2014 form, they've already solved their problem internally.

 

We may be up against the clock a bit on the 10/5 for Braun but the Dodgers don't see that as their problem nor should they.

[monty57]

The Dodgers will continue to put out good teams because they have endless money to spend but they won't win any World Series. Dumb franchise.

 

They'll continue to be the bridesmaid. Never the bride.

 

And the Cubs will never win the World Series because they're cursed, and a small market team like the Royals will never win the World Series... any others?

 

 

I don't think I've ever said either of those two statements above. Anyone can win a World Series. Any franchise. It's been proven too many times for it not to happen. Eventually the Brewers will luck into one as well. I just don't think the Dodgers realize their window with a pitcher like Kershaw. They have a few more years of the dominance if he stays healthy. If they don't make the corresponding moves to go in for a World Series, they will regret it greatly.

 

I wasn't saying you said those things about the Cubs or Royals, but that there are always people saying "this team can't win because..." and then they end up winning.

 

Right now, the Dodgers are one of the most talented MLB teams, with probably a top 10 farm system, more money than most/all other teams, and one of the best GMs in baseball. Right after the Magic Johnson group bought the team, I think they spent money just to make a splash, but I can't understand calling a Friedman-led franchise "dumb," and I don't see how they are "not making the corresponding moves" when they have one of the most talented rosters in the majors with a $250M payroll last year. Plus, they just traded away a very talented prospect to upgrade their MLB roster.

[monty57]

We may be up against the clock a bit on the 10/5 for Braun but the Dodgers don't see that as their problem nor should they.

 

They only should if they think that Braun is the piece needed to go all the way. If they really want him, then they have to make a move now or he gets a no trade clause, although he may still allow a trade to his hometown team.

 

But, for the most part, I've accepted that Braun will probably not be traded and will be a Brewer for life.

[TURBO]

 

But, for the most part, I've accepted that Braun will probably not be traded and will be a Brewer for life.

 

...and I am fine with that.

[pacopete4]

 

But you literally said that the Dodgers won't win a World Series.

 

Don't you think that the Dodgers made a move like this with winning now with Kershaw in mind? There are good reasons they prioritized a move like this over forking over anything for Braun.

 

 

Maybe they did. I don't agree with their moves though. Is that still okay to do? Or do I have to bend over to every move a GM makes because they have that title?

 

I think the Dodgers have pissed away opportunity after opportunity with endless funds and resources. I continue to feel that way based on their moves today. Adding a bat like Braun would be a step forward for them. They may not want to take on the salary but there is definitely ways to be creative to do so.

[reillymcshane]

I think it should be noted that the Dodgers are a very good team right now. The odds are that, even without any further moves, they are a playoff caliber team.

 

Thus, they can retool or tweak or whatever they need to do during the season. For them, they don't need to be set for the season on March 31. They need to be set on July 31 (or even August 31).

 

The wise thing for a team like LA is to not make moves unless it's on their terms. They can take the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the season and see where they are at - and then make the adjustments. If at that time they see Braun - or anyone else - as essential to a World Series run - then they can make their move. Holding onto their prospects just gives them more bullets to spend at the deadline - assuming they even need to make a big move.

 

Games they win in first half of the year are games they dont need to win the 2nd half of the year.

Sure. But as noted in the second sentence, they are a very good team already. There's a very good chance they make the playoffs without Braun.

 

And it's not like they don't trade for Braun now if the opportunity arises - but at a price they are comfortable with.

 

Could they flounder and wish they had Braun from game 1? Sure. But it's a really good team as is, and come July, they may decide that they are better off spending their resources (money, prospects, whatever) on other needs that gets them deeper in the playoffs than adding a bat like Braun. Or maybe they decide Braun's the thing they need at that time - well then they can make the deal then.

[3and2Fastball]

The Dodgers thus far seem to be a team that is reluctant to trade prospects. They seem content to continuously contend without overspending to "go for it" in any particular year. Thus no World Series championships in Kershaw's career but 5 postseason appearances in his 9 seasons.

 

Kershaw is one of the greatest pitchers who ever lived, I think the Dodgers are foolish to not put all their chips on the table and go for it....

[adambr2]

The Dodgers thus far seem to be a team that is reluctant to trade prospects. They seem content to continuously contend without overspending to "go for it" in any particular year. Thus no World Series championships in Kershaw's career but 5 postseason appearances in his 9 seasons.

 

Kershaw is one of the greatest pitchers who ever lived, I think the Dodgers are foolish to not put all their chips on the table and go for it....

 

Again, who says they're not? They just traded arguably their best prospect to fill their hole at 2nd and add a RH bat. They spent a good deal of money this offseason. I'd say any team that trades their top rated prospect in an offseason, a pitching prospect at that, seems to be going for it.

 

Maybe they just don't value Braun as much as we do. Or maybe something still gets done this offseason, I really don't know. But even if they want him and want to win this year, doesn't mean they should just toss the risk management of committing 4 years for him out the window.

[brewcrewdue80]

Since we are speaking a lot about the Dodgers, I'll chime in breaking my silence but return again after. Kershaw is 29 for the '17 season, with another 3years. I get he can opt out, but what's he opting out for? The team is at a position where they are filling the roster internally while spending wisely. Yes they gave up DeLeon, but for a bat that is being argued Braun would fill for them. This is a team who's had success with Kenta Maeda, about to receive continued games started by what was the #1 SP prospect in baseball in Urias. Hyun-Jin Ryu has 2 successful seasons and will return. And a host of other SPs to be their #5. The former #1 hitting prospect in Corey Seager ROY 3rd place in MVP voting resumes leading the batting. I think for them the production from Joc Pederson and Yasiel Puig becomes that fix around the deadline. Pederson had a solid season, still below a little from his minors, but some more growth and he's a fantastic bat(Domingo Santana comp profile imo). Alex Verdugo has AAA experience and may be the solution in adding offense, on top of Forsythe's. 4 straight seasons of 90+win teams and 2017 will most likely add another. I know I've said the same concern to their need for Braun to get them over the hump offensively, but there is a far greater likelihood they win a World Series than probably all but the Cubs throughout baseball currently. And I'm not sure they aren't the most likely because of Urias/Maeda/Ryu. Younger than the Cubs SPs who've outperformed their age and all of them their Fip. Oh and add Healthy needing just a total of 10 games started outside their 5man rotation. The GM must be sitting there and waiting for the right moment, as in these contracts in 2years finally off their books. The Braun proposed deal removed a lot of payroll, so they are clearly working handcuffed in how much they will take on. Argument has been in Puig having every bit of much for value as Braun potentially. 2b was their weaker standing.

[adambr2]

Since we are speaking a lot about the Dodgers, I'll chime in breaking my silence but return again after. Kershaw is 29 for the '17 season, with another 3years. I get he can opt out, but what's he opting out for?

 

$$$$$$$$$ . Money money money. Always money. His opt out is actually after 2018. I'm not saying he for sure will or won't opt out, because we have to see what happens the next 2 years first, but if he has 2 more Cy Young caliber seasons, and his market after 2018 is another 7 years for say $35-$40M per season, with yet another opt out possibly, he'd be crazy to settle for the 2 years/$65M left on his deal instead. He'd be risking millions, maybe hundreds of millions if he were to suddenly decline or get hurt in 2019 or 2020.

[Eye Black]

The Dodgers thus far seem to be a team that is reluctant to trade prospects. They seem content to continuously contend without overspending to "go for it" in any particular year. Thus no World Series championships in Kershaw's career but 5 postseason appearances in his 9 seasons.

 

Kershaw is one of the greatest pitchers who ever lived, I think the Dodgers are foolish to not put all their chips on the table and go for it....

To be fair their "go for it" moment last season was trading away RHP prospect's Frankie Montas, Jharel Cotton, and Grant Holmes to aquire Josh Reddick and Rich Hill. Maybe not the top blockbuster trade of the deadline, but certainly not a small price either.

[pacopete4]

The Dodgers thus far seem to be a team that is reluctant to trade prospects. They seem content to continuously contend without overspending to "go for it" in any particular year. Thus no World Series championships in Kershaw's career but 5 postseason appearances in his 9 seasons.

 

Kershaw is one of the greatest pitchers who ever lived, I think the Dodgers are foolish to not put all their chips on the table and go for it....

To be fair their "go for it" moment last season was trading away RHP prospect's Frankie Montas, Jharel Cotton, and Grant Holmes to aquire Josh Reddick and Rich Hill. Maybe not the top blockbuster trade of the deadline, but certainly not a small price either.

 

This trade alone proves how stupid their franchise is. Reddick pushing them over the top? Give me a break.

[Oldcity]

Really this all goes to show how foolish it is to give a long-term extension into a player's mid-to-late thirties. There was absolutely no reason to give Braun that second extension in 2011. The one in 2008 took him through his age 31 season and was great value. The Brewers could have traded him this year for a nice piece, and they wouldn't have to worry about a declining Braun blocking one of their talented outfield prospects. Now they're stuck with him in 2019 and 2020 when he's likely in decline, killing them defensively, and keeping a Brinson, Ray, Clark, or Phillips out of the lineup.

[brewerfan82]

Really this all goes to show how foolish it is to give a long-term extension into a player's mid-to-late thirties. There was absolutely no reason to give Braun that second extension in 2011. The one in 2008 took him through his age 31 season and was great value. The Brewers could have traded him this year for a nice piece, and they wouldn't have to worry about a declining Braun blocking one of their talented outfield prospects. Now they're stuck with him in 2019 and 2020 when he's likely in decline, killing them defensively, and keeping a Brinson, Ray, Clark, or Phillips out of the lineup.

If his previous extension went through his age 31 season, wouldn't that have meant he would have been a free agent after 2015? Meaning he would have had to have been traded by the 2015 season/trading deadline when he was coming off the 2013 PED suspension/lying debacle and a declining, post-PED .777 OPS 2014 season? I'm not sure he was very tradeable at that point. On the flipside, the extension occurred pre-PED scandal when he was on pace to be a HOF player, which if you take out all the mess that occurred after the extension, it seems pretty reasonable.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Really this all goes to show how foolish it is to give a long-term extension into a player's mid-to-late thirties. There was absolutely no reason to give Braun that second extension in 2011. The one in 2008 took him through his age 31 season and was great value. The Brewers could have traded him this year for a nice piece, and they wouldn't have to worry about a declining Braun blocking one of their talented outfield prospects. Now they're stuck with him in 2019 and 2020 when he's likely in decline, killing them defensively, and keeping a Brinson, Ray, Clark, or Phillips out of the lineup.

If his previous extension went through his age 31 season, wouldn't that have meant he would have been a free agent after 2015? Meaning he would have had to have been traded by the 2015 season/trading deadline when he was coming off the 2013 PED suspension/lying debacle and a declining, post-PED .777 OPS 2014 season? I'm not sure he was very tradeable at that point. On the flipside, the extension occurred pre-PED scandal when he was on pace to be a HOF player, which if you take out all the mess that occurred after the extension, it seems pretty reasonable.

 

I don't really fault the Brewers management for Braun's 2nd extension. It seemed surprising that BRAUN and his agent would be interested in one at the time. There is no doubt that Braun's camp thought that the PED "issue" could arise at some point and effect his value.

 

Ryan Braun basically CON-ed the organization into locking him up before he was exposed, IMO.

 

A model "franchise" player, he is.

 

Each time he breaks one of Robin Younts team records, it makes me a little sick, to be honest.

[pacopete4]

Ryan Braun basically CON-ed the organization into locking him up before he was exposed, IMO.

 

A model "franchise" player, he is.

 

Each time he breaks one of Robin Younts team records, it makes me a little sick, to be honest.

 

 

PED's or not, he's a better hitter than Robin Yount. He's going to break the records.

[3and2Fastball]

Since we are speaking a lot about the Dodgers, I'll chime in breaking my silence but return again after. Kershaw is 29 for the '17 season, with another 3years. I get he can opt out, but what's he opting out for?

 

$$$$$$$$$ . Money money money. Always money. His opt out is actually after 2018. I'm not saying he for sure will or won't opt out, because we have to see what happens the next 2 years first, but if he has 2 more Cy Young caliber seasons, and his market after 2018 is another 7 years for say $35-$40M per season, with yet another opt out possibly, he'd be crazy to settle for the 2 years/$65M left on his deal instead. He'd be risking millions, maybe hundreds of millions if he were to suddenly decline or get hurt in 2019 or 2020.

 

After 2018 Kershaw will join Bryce Harper & Manny Machado in New York as newly signed Yankees. Just a prediction.

[Boomer5]

Really this all goes to show how foolish it is to give a long-term extension into a player's mid-to-late thirties. There was absolutely no reason to give Braun that second extension in 2011. The one in 2008 took him through his age 31 season and was great value. The Brewers could have traded him this year for a nice piece, and they wouldn't have to worry about a declining Braun blocking one of their talented outfield prospects. Now they're stuck with him in 2019 and 2020 when he's likely in decline, killing them defensively, and keeping a Brinson, Ray, Clark, or Phillips out of the lineup.

 

With the benefit of all the information (that Braun hid from them), it was a silly extension to be sure. In fairness to the Brewers, they thought they had locked up their franchise player at what would end up to be a bargain price when it was all added up.

 

Im sure Mark A is twitching with anger every time he sends Braun a check these days, but what can you do? He is too good to dump but not good enough to carry the Brewers to anything meaningful, nor to another team and generate a decent return when factoring in his dead cost at the back end of the deal.

[adambr2]

Really this all goes to show how foolish it is to give a long-term extension into a player's mid-to-late thirties. There was absolutely no reason to give Braun that second extension in 2011. The one in 2008 took him through his age 31 season and was great value. The Brewers could have traded him this year for a nice piece, and they wouldn't have to worry about a declining Braun blocking one of their talented outfield prospects. Now they're stuck with him in 2019 and 2020 when he's likely in decline, killing them defensively, and keeping a Brinson, Ray, Clark, or Phillips out of the lineup.

If his previous extension went through his age 31 season, wouldn't that have meant he would have been a free agent after 2015? Meaning he would have had to have been traded by the 2015 season/trading deadline when he was coming off the 2013 PED suspension/lying debacle and a declining, post-PED .777 OPS 2014 season? I'm not sure he was very tradeable at that point.

 

So far, he doesn't seem very tradeable at this point either. He had a very solid All-Star first half 2015 and would have been highly tradeable at that point as a rental to a contender. The 'control' is what is making it so hard to trade him.

[adambr2]

Really this all goes to show how foolish it is to give a long-term extension into a player's mid-to-late thirties. There was absolutely no reason to give Braun that second extension in 2011. The one in 2008 took him through his age 31 season and was great value. The Brewers could have traded him this year for a nice piece, and they wouldn't have to worry about a declining Braun blocking one of their talented outfield prospects. Now they're stuck with him in 2019 and 2020 when he's likely in decline, killing them defensively, and keeping a Brinson, Ray, Clark, or Phillips out of the lineup.

If his previous extension went through his age 31 season, wouldn't that have meant he would have been a free agent after 2015? Meaning he would have had to have been traded by the 2015 season/trading deadline when he was coming off the 2013 PED suspension/lying debacle and a declining, post-PED .777 OPS 2014 season? I'm not sure he was very tradeable at that point. On the flipside, the extension occurred pre-PED scandal when he was on pace to be a HOF player, which if you take out all the mess that occurred after the extension, it seems pretty reasonable.

 

I don't really fault the Brewers management for Braun's 2nd extension. It seemed surprising that BRAUN and his agent would be interested in one at the time. There is no doubt that Braun's camp thought that the PED "issue" could arise at some point and effect his value.

 

Ryan Braun basically CON-ed the organization into locking him up before he was exposed, IMO.

 

A model "franchise" player, he is.

 

Each time he breaks one of Robin Younts team records, it makes me a little sick, to be honest.

 

This is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I agree entirely. Ryan Braun signed a 9 figure contract at a time prior to any of his PED use being discovered, knowing that if he was discovered prior to the expiration of his first contract, it could cost him dearly. It was completely calculated.

 

Very rarely do you see a star player sign away his entire career years at a below market value for him at the time. Not a coincidence.

[MrTPlush]

I don't really fault the Brewers management for Braun's 2nd extension. It seemed surprising that BRAUN and his agent would be interested in one at the time. There is no doubt that Braun's camp thought that the PED "issue" could arise at some point and effect his value.

 

Ryan Braun basically CON-ed the organization into locking him up before he was exposed, IMO.

 

A model "franchise" player, he is.

 

Each time he breaks one of Robin Younts team records, it makes me a little sick, to be honest.

 

This is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I agree entirely. Ryan Braun signed a 9 figure contract at a time prior to any of his PED use being discovered, knowing that if he was discovered prior to the expiration of his first contract, it could cost him dearly. It was completely calculated.

 

Very rarely do you see a star player sign away his entire career years at a below market value for him at the time. Not a coincidence.

 

Yup...first thing I thought of when he got nabbed for PEDs. Of course that is a lot of speculation without much proof. This also probably isn't the place for it though as it is just going to offend a lot of people who believe Braun's PED use was a one time thing.

[adambr2]

Yup...first thing I thought of when he got nabbed for PEDs. Of course that is a lot of speculation without much proof. This also probably isn't the place for it though as it is just going to offend a lot of people who believe Braun's PED use was a one time thing.

 

Heck, I think it's entirely possible given the connections to Miami that he was using all the way back in '07 when he signed his 45M dollar deal and wanted to ensure he secured a big payday rather than go year to year in case he was discovered. But none of us will ever know. It's all a matter of opinion.

[pacopete4]

Yup...first thing I thought of when he got nabbed for PEDs. Of course that is a lot of speculation without much proof. This also probably isn't the place for it though as it is just going to offend a lot of people who believe Braun's PED use was a one time thing.

 

Heck, I think it's entirely possible given the connections to Miami that he was using all the way back in '07 when he signed his 45M dollar deal and wanted to ensure he secured a big payday rather than go year to year in case he was discovered. But none of us will ever know. It's all a matter of opinion.

 

 

Could be true. I'm in the court that doesn't care much about PED use in that era because there was such a high volume using. Braun would've got money either way. I also am one that thinks he was breaking down and used to recover. Again, just opinion though. No one will actually know.

[JosephC]

I haven't been very impressed with the Dodgers offseason but it has nothing to do with Braun. I agree with the idea of going for a second baseman over another outfielder. As big of a pain as Puig has been at times, he is still talented and a big bounce-back is not out of the question. The Trayce Thompson/Andrew Toles combination is interesting. Andre Either is likely over-the-hill, but he still should perform no lower than a serviceable level if he's healthy. Add in Pederson and there is enough there to get by and perhaps be really good. But at second base, they really needed to make a move there.

 

But I'm not a fan of the Rich Hill deal. He's been very good lately but a 3-year deal to a pitcher who will turn 37 before next season starts and has had a total of 1 MLB season of 111+ innings pitched. Considering they have such a logjam of starters this seemed like a really risky and unnecessary signing. And as good as Kenley Jansen has been, going 5 years and 80 million dollars on a reliever is really questionable...just too many ways that can blow up and turn into a bad contract.

[reillymcshane]

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