What could Braun bring from anyone? (2017 version)

[adambr2]

More negative speculation just to hate on Braun because of dislike for him. We sure love to make mountains out of mole hills.

 

1/3rd of our payroll isn't a mole hill, $80M isn't a mole hill, and I think I've adequately explained why it isn't. That would be true with any player whether i liked him or not. But by all means go with the 'I'm going to attack that opinion since I don't share it' approach.

[pacopete4]

More negative speculation just to hate on Braun because of dislike for him. We sure love to make mountains out of mole hills.

 

1/3rd of our payroll isn't a mole hill, $80M isn't a mole hill, and I think I've adequately explained why it isn't. That would be true with any player whether i liked him or not. But by all means go with the 'I'm going to attack that opinion since I don't share it' approach.

 

 

I'm just sharing my opinion and I believe it's a valid one. My opinion is that your negativity is mainly led by a dislike of Braun. People can tell you that the contract won't really effect much going forward with the rebuild. You'll continue to toss around the figures like you have insight into MA and Stearns minds. You don't, I don't. We can each share an opinion. You don't have to always snap back.

[adambr2]

More negative speculation just to hate on Braun because of dislike for him. We sure love to make mountains out of mole hills.

 

1/3rd of our payroll isn't a mole hill, $80M isn't a mole hill, and I think I've adequately explained why it isn't. That would be true with any player whether i liked him or not. But by all means go with the 'I'm going to attack that opinion since I don't share it' approach.

 

 

I'm just sharing my opinion and I believe it's a valid one. My opinion is that your negativity is mainly led by a dislike of Braun. People can tell you that the contract won't really effect much going forward with the rebuild. You'll continue to toss around the figures like you have insight into MA and Stearns minds. You don't, I don't. We can each share an opinion. You don't have to always snap back.

 

I didn't. I explained why, as logically as I could, that unproductive payroll is never good, and you replied that I was hating on Braun because I dislike him and making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

If Braun had never been suspended for PED use, if he was the greatest guy alive, if he was still my favorite player and helped old ladies cross the street and kissed babies and all that, I would still not want to waste 1/3rd of our payroll on a broken, unproductive player, no matter how much money we have to spend.

 

Trust me, I'm still hoping for the best for Braun, because I love this team. Maybe he'll come back and surprise us and stay healthy and at least be a 120 game a year, .900 OPS player. I'm not optimistic about it, but I'm certainly hoping for it. If that happens, it will not be a waste.

[JosephC]

80 million dollars is only a mole hill if it's someone else's money.

[TURBO]

I do not understand why so many think that $19 or $20 million to Braun per year isn't going to affect other deals, trades, acquisitions. That kind of money will surely put the dampers on spending big money for a free agent TOR pitcher when we get closer to a player like that being a difference maker. 20 million may not be a lot to large market teams, but to us, that is 1/5 of our total salary.

 

Right now, this season, yes, that money means nothing, but if it comes down to signing a big time free agent on a multi year contract as soon as next season, you can bet that 20 million is going to factor into those kind of decisions. That 20 million could go to a player to get us over the hump, but having it tied up in an aging decrepit Ryan Braun has to hurt our chances.

 

Without owing that kind of dead money to Braun, it could also stop us from signing 2 TOR pitchers, and may limit us to only one. 20 million is a ton of money to us, I just don't understand how anyone thinks owing that kind of money to an often DL bound player won't strap us.

[pacopete4]

IMO We are not signing one, let alone two TOR pitchers. It just ain't happening. No matter of Braun is on the books or not you'll be really lucky to get one of the right situation falls to us.

[Boomer5]

No to Sandoval. Boston signed him to a big contract and he has failed to stay in shape and can't field his position. He's on the DL right now and taking his time recuperating. He can't hit anymore either. His manager makes excuses for him and CC doesn't seem like the babysitter type. Keep Braun.

 

Third base isn't a need anyway. Shaw is doing well and Perez is also doing well when needed.

 

Braun can't stay off the DL either but at least he can field his position and can still hit.

 

The contract we take is going to be horrible and of no use regardless of who it is . The point is to eat enough of Brauns contract so a decent prospect package becomes a reality.

[adambr2]

Luis Robert debuted as the #26 overall prospect in baseball. So that provides some good perspective on just exactly how much $50M is worth in those terms, which was the approximate cost to acquire him.

[JosephC]

turbotickey looks to be right on with the math. The Brewer's opening day payroll generally topped out at 100-105 million when attendance was booming. Braun's contract will represent anywhere from 16% to 19% of that total if the Brewers go back up to that number by the 2020 season. 16% to 19% is a significant amount. I don't understand how anyone could make the argument that this shouldn't hinder the roster/payroll flexibility that Stearns has. It may not be an issue today. It could be a very big issue in 2019. And with the team overachieving and currently appearing to be ahead of schedule in the rebuild, it's likely that Braun's contract could become an albatross sooner than later.

[pacopete4]

turbotickey looks to be right on with the math. The Brewer's opening day payroll generally topped out at 100-105 million when attendance was booming. Braun's contract will represent anywhere from 16% to 19% of that total if the Brewers go back up to that number by the 2020 season. 16% to 19% is a significant amount. I don't understand how anyone could make the argument that this shouldn't hinder the roster/payroll flexibility that Stearns has. It may not be an issue today. It could be a very big issue in 2019. And with the team overachieving and currently appearing to be ahead of schedule in the rebuild, it's likely that Braun's contract could become an albatross sooner than later.

 

Because none of the guys that will be in the lineup come 2019-2020 will be making any significant amount of money. Along with that, it is a pipe dream that the Brewers go sign a TOR type pitcher, let alone two. This rebuild bodes well for cheap, young players into the 2020's and if Braun is still here, it won't stop them from getting a free agent or two down the line.

[adambr2]

turbotickey looks to be right on with the math. The Brewer's opening day payroll generally topped out at 100-105 million when attendance was booming. Braun's contract will represent anywhere from 16% to 19% of that total if the Brewers go back up to that number by the 2020 season. 16% to 19% is a significant amount. I don't understand how anyone could make the argument that this shouldn't hinder the roster/payroll flexibility that Stearns has. It may not be an issue today. It could be a very big issue in 2019. And with the team overachieving and currently appearing to be ahead of schedule in the rebuild, it's likely that Braun's contract could become an albatross sooner than later.

 

Because none of the guys that will be in the lineup come 2019-2020 will be making any significant amount of money. Along with that, it is a pipe dream that the Brewers go sign a TOR type pitcher, let alone two. This rebuild bodes well for cheap, young players into the 2020's and if Braun is still here, it won't stop them from getting a free agent or two down the line.

 

Why is it s pipe dream? Maybe MA and DS won't go there, but Mark A. has been known in the past to be very aggressive with TOR pitching with the Sabathia and Greinke trades. He tried to extend Sabathia, too.

 

If the Brewers are a contender in 2019 and 2020 and he's got money to spend I think it's possible he at least tests the waters on a top tier starter if he thinks it's a good fit and the market isn't too ridiculous. I'm not saying it'll happen, but I don't think it's totally outside the realm of possibility.

 

And as it relates to Braun that goes back to my previous argument, that maybe Mark A isn't comfortable splurging $30M a year for a TOR starter if the payroll is at $60M, but would if it was at $40M.

[pacopete4]

turbotickey looks to be right on with the math. The Brewer's opening day payroll generally topped out at 100-105 million when attendance was booming. Braun's contract will represent anywhere from 16% to 19% of that total if the Brewers go back up to that number by the 2020 season. 16% to 19% is a significant amount. I don't understand how anyone could make the argument that this shouldn't hinder the roster/payroll flexibility that Stearns has. It may not be an issue today. It could be a very big issue in 2019. And with the team overachieving and currently appearing to be ahead of schedule in the rebuild, it's likely that Braun's contract could become an albatross sooner than later.

 

Because none of the guys that will be in the lineup come 2019-2020 will be making any significant amount of money. Along with that, it is a pipe dream that the Brewers go sign a TOR type pitcher, let alone two. This rebuild bodes well for cheap, young players into the 2020's and if Braun is still here, it won't stop them from getting a free agent or two down the line.

 

Why is it s pipe dream? Maybe MA and DS won't go there, but Mark A. has been known in the past to be very aggressive with TOR pitching with the Sabathia and Greinke trades. He tried to extend Sabathia, too.

 

If the Brewers are a contender in 2019 and 2020 and he's got money to spend I think it's possible he at least tests the waters on a top tier starter if he thinks it's a good fit and the market isn't too ridiculous. I'm not saying it'll happen, but I don't think it's totally outside the realm of possibility.

 

Because not only will it cost the Brewers $30m+ per year, it will also be for about 5-7 seasons. Cannot see the Brewers ever going down that road. Maybe a trade for one on the back end of their deal but to go out and strike a deal for a pitcher that will demand that type of salary just doesn't seem realistic for the Brewers to do.

[adambr2]

 

Because not only will it cost the Brewers $30m+ per year, it will also be for about 5-7 seasons. Cannot see the Brewers ever going down that road. Maybe a trade for one on the back end of their deal but to go out and strike a deal for a pitcher that will demand that type of salary just doesn't seem realistic for the Brewers to do.

 

Well we are currently spending $20M a year on a 0.0 bWAR left fielder who can't stay healthy, so $10M more a year for an ace doesn't seem too bad.

[MrTPlush]

I hope you guys run your personal finances a little better than you would run the Brewers. 20% of you payroll/income isn't a big deal if wasted...you can do the same things you would normally do anyway? I just can't get on board with this logic. $20mil is bad if Braun isn't going to produce at a high rate. Assuming the Brewers wouldn't put it to better use seems like a way to rationalize Braun not being a big deal if he isn't as good as he was before.

[adambr2]

I hope you guys run your personal finances a little better than you would run the Brewers. 20% of you payroll/income isn't a big deal if wasted...you can do the same things you would normally do anyway? I just can't get on board with this logic. $20mil is bad if Braun isn't going to produce at a high rate. Assuming the Brewers wouldn't put it to better use seems like a way to rationalize Braun not being a big deal if he isn't as good as he was before.

 

So it's still a waste for me to throw away $800 a month of my $4,000/month salary at the strip club if I can still pay my bills?

 

Well shoot .

[pacopete4]

It's more than likely that it just becomes $20m more spent than it ever does $20m we can't spend. It's Marks money. He knew the risk before ever signing Braun. I'm sure he has seen his return.

[brewerfan82]

I think the difference in opinions stem from when people think the Brewers will even be in a position to want to fill their budget on a contending team. We know their willing to spend $100m+ when the timing is right. If you think this offseason is when they're ready to make that kind of commitment and you think it'll take $70m in FAs and trade acqusiitions instead of $50m to get where they want, then yes, Braun's contract is potentially hindering things.

 

If you think they'll take a couple more years nurturing the farm system and seeing how players develop once they reach the major league level before deciding they're ready to max out on their payroll, you're probably not as worried about Braun's contract hanging around for 3 more seasons. And at that point if the Brewers are looking to sign someone to a $200m contract, I'm not so sure, even if Braun has a year left on his contract, that they'll let that get in the way of making a move they think will improve the club.

[MrTPlush]

I hope you guys run your personal finances a little better than you would run the Brewers. 20% of you payroll/income isn't a big deal if wasted...you can do the same things you would normally do anyway? I just can't get on board with this logic. $20mil is bad if Braun isn't going to produce at a high rate. Assuming the Brewers wouldn't put it to better use seems like a way to rationalize Braun not being a big deal if he isn't as good as he was before.

 

So it's still a waste for me to throw away $800 a month of my $4,000/month salary at the strip club if I can still pay my bills?

 

Well shoot .

 

Well to be fair there could be some value for you. Maybe 2-3 WAR depending on how nice your wife is.

[MadThinker88]

Don't know if many people here are regular listeners to the Baseball Tonight podcast but I listen as I have a lot of car/ windshield time each day.

Over the past week Buster Olney on a couple occasions noted:

1) that Braun only wants to play in LA if moved from Milwaukee

2) other GMs around the leauge see a few huge issues with Braun - inability to remain healthy, the size of his deal (for a player not remaining on the field) & the PED history

3) he does not see Braun getting moved at all

[adambr2]

Don't know if many people here are regular listeners to the Baseball Tonight podcast but I listen as I have a lot of car/ windshield time each day.

Over the past week Buster Olney on a couple occasions noted:

1) that Braun only wants to play in LA if moved from Milwaukee

2) other GMs around the leauge see a few huge issues with Braun - inability to remain healthy, the size of his deal (for a player not remaining on the field) & the PED history

3) he does not see Braun getting moved at all

 

Pretty much can't disagree with any of that.

[wildcat2237]

Don't know if many people here are regular listeners to the Baseball Tonight podcast but I listen as I have a lot of car/ windshield time each day.

Over the past week Buster Olney on a couple occasions noted:

1) that Braun only wants to play in LA if moved from Milwaukee

2) other GMs around the leauge see a few huge issues with Braun - inability to remain healthy, the size of his deal (for a player not remaining on the field) & the PED history

3) he does not see Braun getting moved at all

 

Pretty much can't disagree with any of that.

 

Yep. The Brewers have no leverage with the Dodgers if that is the case. No reason to just give him away either.

[trwi7]

1) that Braun only wants to play in LA if moved from Milwaukee

 

Exactly why I wanted him moved this winter. At least we had a little leverage with a couple other teams that he could possibly be dealt to. Now we're stuck with him.

[adambr2]

Don't know if many people here are regular listeners to the Baseball Tonight podcast but I listen as I have a lot of car/ windshield time each day.

Over the past week Buster Olney on a couple occasions noted:

1) that Braun only wants to play in LA if moved from Milwaukee

2) other GMs around the leauge see a few huge issues with Braun - inability to remain healthy, the size of his deal (for a player not remaining on the field) & the PED history

3) he does not see Braun getting moved at all

 

Pretty much can't disagree with any of that.

 

Yep. The Brewers have no leverage with the Dodgers if that is the case. No reason to just give him away either.

 

The fact that he cleared waivers last August is a good indication that we couldn't give him away anyway even if we wanted to.

[Boomer5]

If other execs thought he was a 4 WAR player he wouldn't have cleared waivers.

 

Since his only market is the Dodgers, it's unlikely we can move him unless we take back some seriously bad contracts.

[rcc]

He can't stay off the DL. Nobody would want him unless the Brewers take on some of that contract. Big market, big payroll teams do it but does it make sense for a small market team.