What could Braun bring from anyone? (2017 version)

[tmwiese55]

Thing is he's still smoking the ball whenever he plays and these injuries are just so minor that we shouldn't overreact. But yea for a team looking at a 4 yr commitment if they don't have a DH I see them not taking the risk of it all. Looking at AL contending teams that need DH help you're pretty much looking just at Boston. He'd probably do it for a chance at a title, but I of course have no idea for sure on that. Plus they have money locked up in DH types already in Hanley, Pablo and Moreland, it's just that none are doing anything. Sure they have unlimited budget but still doubtful they'll put more money into it and none of those guys would have any role coming back here to offset salary. For SoCal, Angels aren't really contenders and I doubt they want to be playing Pujols every day at 1B. Maybe he and Braun can go back and forth between DH and 1B I suppose.

 

Thames revelation also eliminates the possibility of opening up an Of spot if Braun or Santana moved to 1B. Long story short, DH can't come quick enough for the Brewers.

[FVBrewerFan]

More likely, what we're seeing is Braun relegated to the role of a 4th OF who can really help when healthy. With all the OF talent they have, I just don't see how you can reserve a full time spot for Braun. We could even be looking at early retirement.

 

 

Braun a 4th OF? Come on man. He'll be penciled into that 3-hole for the next four years as long as he wants to continue to play. He is one of the best hitters in the game. Too many people get excited from shiny new things these days.

 

A shiny new thing looks pretty good when the alternative is an old, rusty, broken down thing. In case you haven't noticed, he's basically the 4th OF now. If he continues this trend of not being able to go on a regular basis, how can you possibly reserve a full time position for him in LF?

 

(You also conveniently left out my first paragraph. Everything changes if he can stay healthy for an extended period of time.)

[MrTPlush]

Thing is he's still smoking the ball whenever he plays and these injuries are just so minor that we shouldn't overreact.

 

He has missed almost 40% of the Brewer's games so far...that is pretty concerning(I include 3 games he failed to go more than 6 innings). What is more concerning is the sheer volume of things nagging him. Once these things start to nag him I am sure they will show up again and again. Think his thumb, back, hamstring, and oblique that have all bothered him in recent years. Is he going to have arm/trap/calf issues now? Like I said I hope this isn't a sign of things to come, but it only seems to be trending the wrong way for Braun. I honestly can't remember the last guy who had this many different injuries in a months time.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I'm really not an advocate of the National League adopting the DL just so Ryan Braun can stay with the Brewers. lol

 

Brewers only hope is that Ryan Braun stays healthy and productive from now until July 31st of next year.

 

If so, I have a feeling the Brewers will find a taker either this offseason or before the deadline next year.

 

It's clear it's unlikely to happen during this season given all the factors against it.

 

 

Personally, I feel that by this time next year, Ryan Braun will be sick of the constant trade rumors and be pushing for the Brewers to trade him to a contender, regardless of the return.

[pacopete4]

More likely, what we're seeing is Braun relegated to the role of a 4th OF who can really help when healthy. With all the OF talent they have, I just don't see how you can reserve a full time spot for Braun. We could even be looking at early retirement.

 

 

Braun a 4th OF? Come on man. He'll be penciled into that 3-hole for the next four years as long as he wants to continue to play. He is one of the best hitters in the game. Too many people get excited from shiny new things these days.

 

A shiny new thing looks pretty good when the alternative is an old, rusty, broken down thing. In case you haven't noticed, he's basically the 4th OF now. If he continues this trend of not being able to go on a regular basis, how can you possibly reserve a full time position for him in LF?

 

(You also conveniently left out my first paragraph. Everything changes if he can stay healthy for an extended period of time.)

 

You mean like he did, just a season ago? (135, 140, 135 the past three seasons) All this other stuff is so over reactionary to me. The dude rakes. Even when he's not 100%, he rakes. Even if he plays 120 games a season, he's worth it. Either way, he's not, nor ever will be our 4th outfielder.

[pacopete4]

Here is a good article talking about the impact of Braun on Thames and then some tidbits about being trading and such: USA TODAY ARTICLE

[tmwiese55]

Thing is he's still smoking the ball whenever he plays and these injuries are just so minor that we shouldn't overreact.

 

He has missed almost 40% of the Brewer's games so far...that is pretty concerning(I include 3 games he failed to go more than 6 innings). What is more concerning is the sheer volume of things nagging him. Once these things start to nag him I am sure they will show up again and again. Think his thumb, back, hamstring, and oblique that have all bothered him in recent years. Is he going to have arm/trap/calf issues now? Like I said I hope this isn't a sign of things to come, but it only seems to be trending the wrong way for Braun. I honestly can't remember the last guy who had this many different injuries in a months time.

 

I mean, did you read the rest of my post? That said, rewind 3 weeks ago and everyone was saying the opposite. He just completed a healthy season, was raking, and the talk was how we should hold out for top prospects. Heck, you could probably just go up in this thread and see it. Now a minor arm injury and a strained calf and we're talking about 4th OF and like he's a huge liability or something. People just need to chill on the overreactions, not only on this topic but based on any hot or cold streak a player has.

 

I don't advocated for the DH because of Braun. I advocate for it because it's absolutely dumb to have different rules in each league. I prefer to make pitchers hit, but I know the union won't allow it. So it's inevitable the DH will come eventually.

[pacopete4]

People just need to chill on the overreactions, not only on this topic but based on any hot or cold streak a player has.

 

I don't advocated for the DH because of Braun. I advocate for it because it's absolutely dumb to have different rules in each league. I prefer to make pitchers hit, but I know the union won't allow it. So it's inevitable the DH will come eventually.

 

+1, well stated for both.

[adambr2]

More likely, what we're seeing is Braun relegated to the role of a 4th OF who can really help when healthy. With all the OF talent they have, I just don't see how you can reserve a full time spot for Braun. We could even be looking at early retirement.

 

 

Braun a 4th OF? Come on man. He'll be penciled into that 3-hole for the next four years as long as he wants to continue to play. He is one of the best hitters in the game. Too many people get excited from shiny new things these days.

 

I don't know, the Dodgers' shiny new toy is working out pretty well for them. I can see why they weren't willing to trade Bellinger.

[pacopete4]

More likely, what we're seeing is Braun relegated to the role of a 4th OF who can really help when healthy. With all the OF talent they have, I just don't see how you can reserve a full time spot for Braun. We could even be looking at early retirement.

 

 

Braun a 4th OF? Come on man. He'll be penciled into that 3-hole for the next four years as long as he wants to continue to play. He is one of the best hitters in the game. Too many people get excited from shiny new things these days.

 

I don't know, the Dodgers' shiny new toy is working out pretty well for them. I can see why they weren't willing to trade Bellinger.

 

Did I miss something? Did Bellinger replace an MVP type player in the outfield for LA that they moved to being their 4th outfielder?

[adambr2]

I'm just noting why Bellinger for Braun was never realistic for the Dodgers, and rightfully so, that's all. I'm not saying Braun is s 4th OFer, obviously when he's healthy he's still good enough to be in there, but if it gets to the point where we can only rely on him for 100-110 starts a year in left, that's a problem.

[pacopete4]

but if it gets to the point where we can only rely on him for 100-110 starts a year in left, that's a problem.

 

If that 110 starts is at a Braun level and you have an over crowded outfield, I don't see it as much of a problem, if any. Just means you could play four guys out there more consistently than if he was out there for 140 games.

 

Lets put it this way, there are 486 starts out there for three outfielders. If you added a fourth and gave everyone equal playing time, they would get 120 starts. With the way guys are these days, I'm perfectly fine with that.

[FVBrewerFan]

You mean like he did, just a season ago? (135, 140, 135 the past three seasons) All this other stuff is so over reactionary to me. The dude rakes. Even when he's not 100%, he rakes. Even if he plays 120 games a season, he's worth it. Either way, he's not, nor ever will be our 4th outfielder.

 

Right, and he was healthy and raked 8 years ago too. So what? We're talking about NOW and the future. And right now, doesn't look like he'll play even 120 games. And if he does, that's pretty much a 4th OF, missing 1/4 of the season. Absolutely, like I said in my original post, if he can play 135/140 games a year, no problem, nothing changes.

 

So what you're saying is if continues to miss as many games as he has this season, LF should always be reserved for him? Do you think it's not possible for him to continue to miss as many games as he has to start this season? Not arguing, just really want to know. If you're the Dodgers or any other team you feel just fine trading top prospects for Braun right now?

[A Swing and A Drive]

All this frustration really stems from the fact that Braun currently has no surplus trade value.

 

Add to that his health, 10/5 rights/no trade clause, and a terrible trade market.

 

Fans think Brewers deserve "top prospects" in return for Braun. It's just not happening this season.

[tmwiese55]

All this frustration really stems from the fact that Braun currently has no surplus trade value.

 

Add to that his health, 10/5 rights/no trade clause, and a terrible trade market.

 

Fans think Brewers deserve "top prospects" in return for Braun. It's just not happening this season.

 

That's it right there.

 

I'd also add comment to the deserve top prospects aspect. Even beyond, I think the right attitude of management (and fans for that matter) should be that if you're not getting top prospects then you might as well just keep him. After Garza is gone he'll be the only significant contract on the team. So if you're not getting anything back for him besides salary dump, might as well just keep him, lobby for the DH, and wait and see if there is a contending AL team next year that needs him. Boston could be it, they could really use him in this lineup and next year they'll have Moreland's contract gone and one year closer to the end of Hanley/Pablo.

[trwi7]

I don't think the Brewers deserve top prospects for Braun and I wish they would've taken the best offer from the Dodgers or Giants this winter.

[brewcrewdue80]

Any talk of Calhoun being a part of the return for Braun would make me puke. First he'd be #5 in the 2b order behind Villar, Diaz, Dubon, and Perez. So you had better have a 3rd team involved having a use for Calhoun because Milw does not unless a number of Brewers died.

 

So I guess by your logic, Stearns would not have acquired OF Lewis Brinson via trade last July, since the Brewers already had Braun, Santana, Broxton, BPhillips, CRay, TClark, MHarrison, DOrimoloye, MReed, TTaylor, KWren.

 

To be fair, Braun would have been up for the trade deadline & or the August waiver trades. So Brinson could slide in to the starting role if had happen.

Im not happy with Brinson trade. Should have gotten another pitcher

[adambr2]

Don't know how anyone can be unhappy with acquiring Brinson who is a top 15 prospect in all of baseball. He was the best talent available for Lucroy. Easy to say we should have gotten another pitcher but we don't know what was offered.

[MrTPlush]

Should have gotten another pitcher

 

As mentioned that is pretty easy to say when we don't even know if any pitchers were available. Heck we have a top prospect pitcher and I would take Brinson over said pitcher every chance. Because no offense to the Haderwagon, but the guy seems dangerously destined to be a reliever and not even a starter...and even if he makes it as a startermore like a mid-rotation guy. TOR pitchers are almost impossible to find and intentionally trying to find one sounds like the perfect recipe for disaster. When you end up with a couple late inning relievers and a Nelson/Peralta tell me how you feel.

 

I would love pitching too, but intentionally trying to get it seems like a bad game to play.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Should have gotten another pitcher

 

As mentioned that is pretty easy to say when we don't even know if any pitchers were available. Heck we have a top prospect pitcher and I would take Brinson over said pitcher every chance. Because no offense to the Haderwagon, but the guy seems dangerously destined to be a reliever and not even a starter...and even if he makes it as a startermore like a mid-rotation guy. TOR pitchers are almost impossible to find and intentionally trying to find one sounds like the perfect recipe for disaster. When you end up with a couple late inning relievers and a Nelson/Peralta tell me how you feel.

 

I would love pitching too, but intentionally trying to get it seems like a bad game to play.

 

I get where you are coming from. Teams trying to find the next ACE are more likely to get the next Eric Arnett.

 

However, I don't think it would be wise to NOT intentionally try to find an ACE. lol

 

Let's look at how teams with ACEs found them:

 

Clayton Kershaw- Top 10 1st Round pick

Madison Bumgarner- Top 10 1st Round pick

Max Scherzer- 1st round Pick (since traded)

Chris Sale- 1st round pick (since traded)

Noah Syndergard- supplemental 1st round pick (since traded)

Justin Verlander- #2 overall pick

Stephen Stasburg- #1 overall pick

Cole Hamels- 1st round pick (since traded)

Jon Lester- 2nd round pick

 

of course there are a handful of hidden gems...

Corey Kluber- 4th round pick

Jake Arrieta- 5th round pick

Jacob deGrom- 9th round pick

 

but trying to land one via draft or trade is a "bad" game that the Brewers very much need to play.

[pacopete4]

Did the Brewers not get Luis Ortiz, a first rounder, who is already at AA and doing quite well?

[brewcrewdue80]

Yes Brew4u but that was 1 pitcher and thus why I say another in the deal. BA updated their top 100 Brinson is at 20 ortiz and woodruff I think were 73/74. I don't know I just feel Brinson, like Ray will provide nice numbers, but nothing elite in any single tool. Sure both may touch .300 but .340s OB with that number. 20HRs sure. 15-20 sbs sure. Its solid but the Brewers had and have OFs who have that potential with a higher tool in some category. Id just prefer to take a stab in the dark with a pitcher over a redundant OF.

 

Back on Braun. Since his 1st rd draft pick. If you take the top 30 selections since, would the Brewers rank dead last in WAR from their selections vs the other MLB teams?

[brewerfan82]

If you take the top 30 selections since, would the Brewers rank dead last in WAR from their selections vs the other MLB teams?

Not sure, but their top picks have been pretty putrid:

 

[pre]YEAR PCK PLAYER POS WAR

---- --- ------ --- ---

2006 16 Jeremy Jeffress RHP 4.0

2007 7 Matt LaPorta 1B -0.9

2008 16 Brett Lawrie 3B 15.4

2009 26 Eric Arnett RHP

2010 14 Dylan Covey RHP -0.7

2011 12 Taylor Jungmann RHP 1.1

2012 27 Clint Coulter C

2014 12 Kodi Medeiros LHP

2015 15 Trent Clark OF

2016 5 Corey Ray OF[/pre]

[Greenleaf1]

It certainly doesn't hurt our chances to trade Braun to the Dodgers that Andrew Toles tore his ACL and is out for the year.

 

If Bellinger can't keep up his torrid pace or Puig falls off a cliff, that outfield is going to need a big upgrade at the trade deadline from somewhere.

 

Of course Braun is going to need to come back from his current injuries healthy and productive, but injuries to the Dodgers outfield don't hurt his trade value none.

[JosephC]

If I'm in a GM's chair there isn't any possible way that I could be desperate enough to want to take a risk on Braun's contract. Latest official DL move would do it for me. There are the back and thumb concerns that will likely always be a concern. Now it appears certain that he'll only log 7 at-bats over a 3+ week window with what are two of the most minor injuries there are, a mild forearm strain and a mild calf strain. So not only would I be getting a big contract player that has the chance to break down with some really debilitating injuries, but I also would be getting a player that is going to be out for a week just about every time he gets hit with a stiff breeze. No thanks.