What could Braun bring from anyone? (2017 version)

[billymac]

Man the Dodgers and their injuries, I don't know how the team trainers can still have a job, I guess Braun would fit in pretty good with them at this point. Need to wrap this team up in bubble wrap.

 

Current DL:

Ethier, Back

Forsythe, Toe

Garcia, TJ

Gonzalez, Elbow

Gutierrez, Hip

Hill, Blister

Kazmir, Hip

McCarthy, Shoulder

Ravin, Groin

Ryu, Hip

Segedin, Toe

Stewart, Shoulder

Toles, Knee

[JohnBriggs12]

LF Andrew Toles left tonight's Dodgers game with a leg injury.

 

For what it's worth...

 

Getting an MRI today on his knee. There's some concern it's ACL related. That would be a serious injury of course...

 

They'll just stick Bellinger in LF when Gonzales returns.

 

To whoever implied Braun isn't still an elite player, you're simply wrong. His bat in this Brewer lineup is critical. It's no accident Thames cooled off without Braun behind him. The Brewers have guys that can replace a Santana but nobody can match Braun's production now or for the next couple years. He's a bargain.

[mrn1ceguy]

Since someone else brought up Gonzalez blocking Bellinger at 1B, it gave me a new thought for a possible trade proposal. To help alleviate the cost concerns of Braun, would the Dodgers be interested in moving Gonzalez as part of a 3 team trade to make room for Bellinger at 1B and Braun in LF? Gonzalez is having a down year (OPS 0.635) after already regressing last year some (OPS 0.784, down from 0.830/0.817/0.803 the previous three years) and has 42Million of salary combined for 2017/2018. This would free more money from the Dodgers than any other proposal offered while getting them Braun's bat and keeping a spot for Bellinger. I have no idea if Gonzalez has trade protection, but what about something like:

 

Brewers get:

-Alverez, Calhoun and a 2-3 lottery prospects

 

Dodgers get:

-Braun at only $34M for 4 years (when you take in the salary offset from Gonzalez)

 

Third team get:

-Gonzalez at $17M for 2 years (Brewers pick up $25M)

 

 

My thinking goes:

-Braun to Dodgers for Alvarez and a lottery prospect

-Gonzalez to Brewers along with Calhoun and lottery prospect (to offset $42M salary)

-Gonzalez then to a 3rd team with ~$25M from the Brewers for a lottery prospect or two

 

Sound do-able, completely impossible or just way to complicated to seem reasonable?

[MrTPlush]

Pretty sure Adrian has a no trade clause...so good luck with that one. Hard enough to get one to waive it let alone two. You would have to send Adrian to another really good contender. Doubt it even then though.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Really think the only way we deal Braun is if a team is DYING for a bat to win now at the deadline. Curious if the Toles injury makes the Dodgers keep Bellinger at the ML level, and if he fails his first go around, especially against LHP it could force a move.

[nate82]

Any trade with the Dodgers will have Puig coming back to the Brewers to make room for Braun in the OF.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Any trade with the Dodgers will have Puig coming back to the Brewers to make room for Braun in the OF.

 

Well, since Puig has restored alot of his value since the middle of last season, I'm not even sure the Dodgers would do a Puig/Braun even swap.

 

Puig bats right-handed as well, except is younger, cheaper and still hasn't reached his prime yet.

 

Puig makes only $6.5M this season, $7.5M in 2018 and is still ARB eligible for 2019.

 

I'm actually curious if Brewer fans would even want them to....

 

BF.netters...please chime in with a vote of Yes or No to this question:

 

Would you trade Ryan Braun for Yasiel Puig straight up if the Dodgers offered it today, with no other players involved or money changing hands?

 

Why or why not?

[mrn1ceguy]

Any trade with the Dodgers will have Puig coming back to the Brewers to make room for Braun in the OF.

 

Well, since Puig has restored alot of his value since the middle of last season, I'm not even sure the Dodgers would do a Puig/Braun even swap.

 

Puig bats right-handed as well, except is younger, cheaper and still hasn't reached his prime yet.

 

Puig makes only $6.5M this season, $7.5M in 2018 and is still ARB eligible for 2019.

 

I'm actually curious if Brewer fans would even want them to....

 

BF.netters...please chime in with a vote of Yes or No to this question:

 

Would you trade Ryan Braun for Yasiel Puig straight up if the Dodgers offered it today, with no other players involved or money changing hands?

 

Why or why not?

 

No for the simple measure that I think Braun will outperform Puig over the the 2017/2018/2019 seasons. Add in that it doesn't solve the OF logjam nor does it improve a weakness area of the team (Pitching), I say no.

[And That]

In order to improve board functionality, I've split this topic into two sections, the second of which starts on 1/1/17.

 

The original thread is here (and locked): viewtopic.php?f=66&t=34528

[nate82]

 

Well, since Puig has restored alot of his value since the middle of last season, I'm not even sure the Dodgers would do a Puig/Braun even swap.

 

Puig bats right-handed as well, except is younger, cheaper and still hasn't reached his prime yet.

 

Puig makes only $6.5M this season, $7.5M in 2018 and is still ARB eligible for 2019.

 

I'm actually curious if Brewer fans would even want them to....

 

BF.netters...please chime in with a vote of Yes or No to this question:

 

Would you trade Ryan Braun for Yasiel Puig straight up if the Dodgers offered it today, with no other players involved or money changing hands?

 

Why or why not?

 

Puig has restored a lot of his value? Puig has been down right awful so far this year. Fangraphs has Puig at a 0 WAR and Baseball Reference has him at 0.6.

 

This is Puig's current slash line:

.250 .319 .425

 

So how has Puig restored a lot of his value?

[adambr2]

 

Well, since Puig has restored alot of his value since the middle of last season, I'm not even sure the Dodgers would do a Puig/Braun even swap.

 

Puig bats right-handed as well, except is younger, cheaper and still hasn't reached his prime yet.

 

Puig makes only $6.5M this season, $7.5M in 2018 and is still ARB eligible for 2019.

 

I'm actually curious if Brewer fans would even want them to....

 

BF.netters...please chime in with a vote of Yes or No to this question:

 

Would you trade Ryan Braun for Yasiel Puig straight up if the Dodgers offered it today, with no other players involved or money changing hands?

 

Why or why not?

 

Puig has restored a lot of his value? Puig has been down right awful so far this year. Fangraphs has Puig at a 0 WAR and Baseball Reference has him at 0.6.

 

This is Puig's current slash line:

.250 .319 .425

 

So how has Puig restored a lot of his value?

 

Hard to say Puig has been awful based on that when Braun has the same cumulative WAR (0.1 on Baseball Reference and 0.5 on Fangraphs).

[JosephC]

A Braun to Los Angeles deal made a lot more sense for both sides in August of 2016 than it does now. The Dodgers seemingly had just enough of Puig and McCarthy was the perfect contract to dump on Milwaukee (not so big that Milwaukee couldn't handle it, but big enough to justify a couple good prospects in the return). Now the Dodgers seem much more content with Puig and McCarthy was actually pitching pretty well before going on the DL with what appears to be a pretty minor injury. If Brock Stewart was one of the prospects in the return (complete 100% speculation, but he made a lot of sense), he probably doesn't interest the Brewers at this point since he has been out with a shoulder problem. It doesn't sound like the Gonzalez injury is something that will keep him out for six weeks, so Bellinger is probably penciled in as the left fielder after a week or so. Verdugo with a .402 OBP and a .402 SLUG (without the benefit of a HR yet?) in AAA so it doesn't appear he's too far away.

 

If a deal were to happen it would almost have to include Puig to open up an outfield spot. Then the Dodgers would probably demand the Brewers take Scott Kazmir's contract to offset Puig's surplus value and justify throwing a couple prospects in the deal. And then when talking about the quality of the two prospects coming back...Stearns would want a top prospect plus a "C-level" guy and the Dodgers maybe being willing to give up a couple "C-level" guys. That sounds just like last year. And that didn't get done last year when it really made more sense for both sides. I don't see it getting done now.

[nate82]

 

Hard to say Puig has been awful based on that when Braun has the same cumulative WAR (0.1 on Baseball Reference and 0.5 on Fangraphs).

 

Puig's WRC+ 99

 

Braun's WRC+ 141

 

Puig is sitting at just about average while Braun is playing at an All Star level. So yes Puig has been awful while Braun has not been.

[adambr2]

 

Hard to say Puig has been awful based on that when Braun has the same cumulative WAR (0.1 on Baseball Reference and 0.5 on Fangraphs).

 

Puig's WRC+ 99

 

Braun's WRC+ 141

 

Puig is sitting at just about average while Braun is playing at an All Star level. So yes Puig has been awful while Braun has not been.

 

So you used WAR to support your point, then backtracked on it and cherry picked a different stat when someone pointed out that they have the same WAR.

 

Braun is a good hitter, hopefully he will continue to be for several years. I don't have a ton of confidence that he's going to be either reliable or a good left fielder the more he ages.

[nate82]

 

Hard to say Puig has been awful based on that when Braun has the same cumulative WAR (0.1 on Baseball Reference and 0.5 on Fangraphs).

 

Puig's WRC+ 99

 

Braun's WRC+ 141

 

Puig is sitting at just about average while Braun is playing at an All Star level. So yes Puig has been awful while Braun has not been.

 

So you used WAR to support your point, then backtracked on it and cherry picked a different stat when someone pointed out that they have the same WAR.

 

No point still stands with the original stats I put down. The follow up is more added on. I provided two sets of stats originally to show how bad Puig is performing and provided a third set of stats to prove the point even further. There is no backtracking.

 

Quick edit looking even further at Puig's advanced stats they are bad. wOBA of .319 ISO of .179. Do you need me to continue or would that just be more cherry picking?

[adambr2]

No point still stands with the original stats I put down. The follow up is more added on. I provided two sets of stats originally to show how bad Puig is performing and provided a third set of stats to prove the point even further. There is no backtracking.

 

Ok, just not sure why you went from WAR to WRC+, which tells us about nothing other than his bat. I don't deny that Braun is still the better offensive player. That doesn't mean he'll be the better value over the rest of his contract.

[nate82]

No point still stands with the original stats I put down. The follow up is more added on. I provided two sets of stats originally to show how bad Puig is performing and provided a third set of stats to prove the point even further. There is no backtracking.

 

Ok, just not sure why you went from WAR to WRC+. I don't deny that Braun is still the better offensive player. That doesn't mean he'll be the better value over the rest of his contract.

 

They are stats moving from one to the next is just the natural progression. For the Dodgers what Puig does in the future is just a bonus as they have more prospects coming up that project about as good as Puig is right now. The Dodgers are going to be more concerned about this year and next. Braun offensively right now is a better player than Puig. Could Puig be better than Braun in 2-3 years from now? Possibly but that doesn't really matter for the Dodgers as they have enough assets to off set that risk of Puig being better than Braun in 2-3 years.

 

What the Brewers can get from the Dodgers is still questionable but I am almost certain that the Dodgers are going to want to include Puig in a trade for Braun. Puig is either going to be part of a Braun trade going to the Brewers or to a 3rd team. Puig to the Dodgers right now is more of a dead weight than an asset at this point.

[brewcrewdue80]

Any talk of Calhoun being a part of the return for Braun would make me puke. First he'd be #5 in the 2b order behind Villar, Diaz, Dubon, and Perez. So you had better have a 3rd team involved having a use for Calhoun because Milw does not unless a number of Brewers died.

[MrTPlush]

If the start of this year is any sign of what is to come we might seriously wish we had just dumped him for the best offer no matter what it was in retrospect. He sat out the majority of spring training in an attempt to stay healthy, started some ST games and his back flared up, then the season started with a back issue, then it was his foot, then he has a trapezius issue for days, then he hurt his forearm not even playing in games because of the trapezius, and now he comes back and it only takes a few days to hurt his calf while he is still hurting from everything else cause terrible throws. This for a guy who already gets a ton of days off. IT IS MAY 11TH PEOPLE.

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/mlb/4048/ryan-braun

 

I truly hope he can be more healthy, but with his history and the start to 2017 should make people pretty concerned. With that I would be really shocked if we got a good deal for him with the injury resume he has built up. Seems destined to be here till the end of the contract and I really hope he doesn't become a DL regular to end his Milwaukee career. It is only a matter of time before the injuries and age catch up to Braun. When is the question.

[adambr2]

If the start of this year is any sign of what is to come we might seriously wish we had just dumped him for the best offer no matter what it was in retrospect. He sat out the majority of spring training in an attempt to stay healthy, started some ST games and his back flared up, then the season started with a back issue, then it was his foot, then he has a trapezius issue for days, then he hurt his forearm not even playing in games because of the trapezius, and now he comes back and it only takes a few days to hurt his calf while he is still hurting from everything else cause terrible throws. This for a guy who already gets a ton of days off. IT IS MAY 11TH PEOPLE.

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/mlb/4048/ryan-braun

 

I truly hope he can be more healthy, but with his history and the start to 2017 should make people pretty concerned. With that I would be really shocked if we got a good deal for him with the injury resume he has built up. Seems destined to be here till the end of the contract and I really hope he doesn't become a DL regular to end his Milwaukee career. It is only a matter of time before the injuries and age catch up to Braun. When is the question.

 

I have to agree. The number of minor injuries that are constantly hampering him are alarming, especially coming into the season saying he was as healthy as he's been in years. It's a huge red flag, especially for an NL team like the Dodgers that can't just use him as their DH.

 

I'm not saying Braun is untradeable, but we are seeing a big reason why we couldn't get anything of significance for him in the off-season. 4 years of a player who is already very unreliable is a huge risk for any team. It doesn't do the Dodgers or Giants any good to trade for Braun as a major piece of a playoff puzzle if they have major misgivings that he'll be near 100% or even available for the playoffs.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Any talk of Calhoun being a part of the return for Braun would make me puke. First he'd be #5 in the 2b order behind Villar, Diaz, Dubon, and Perez. So you had better have a 3rd team involved having a use for Calhoun because Milw does not unless a number of Brewers died.

 

So I guess by your logic, Stearns would not have acquired OF Lewis Brinson via trade last July, since the Brewers already had Braun, Santana, Broxton, BPhillips, CRay, TClark, MHarrison, DOrimoloye, MReed, TTaylor, KWren...

 

Actually there is a consensus among scouts that Willie Calhoun will have to be moved to a corner OF spot before reaching the majors.

[sarcasm]So by your theory, if they acquire Willie, the Brewers don't really need as many 2B to die. Just a bunch of outfielders.[/sarcasm]

 

 

 

A rebuilding team like the Brewers are simply looking to add as much young, controllable talent as possible, regardless of position.

 

The rest tends to work itself out by the time these guys reach the majors.

 

With that being said, I agree that the Brewers can't keep trading for and drafting 1st round outfielders EVERY freaking season.

 

2015

1st round draft pick: OF Trent Clark

Trade Deadline Acquisitions: OF Domingo Santana, OF Brett Phillips

 

2016

1st round draft pick: OF Corey Ray

Trade Deadline Acquisitions: OF Lewis Brinson, OF Ryan Cordell

 

And I know that Josh Hader was also acquired in 2015, but this franchise desperately needs to find and develop a future ACE.

 

Hopefully a couple of them.

 

Because signing mid-rotation type veterans (Garza, Suppan) to add to a bunch of mid-rotation type prospects (Nelson, Peralta, etc) is not a recipe for becoming a future playoff contender, IMHO.

[reillymcshane]

With Braun's injuries - and he's got multiple this year (as noted by others) - I think it's a pipe dream that LA would want him at this time. Maybe if he can stay healthy for a couple of months they would be interested.

 

The arm issue is really troublesome. I haven't seen the last couple of games, but from what I heard in the In-Game-Threads, people were saying he couldn't throw the ball with any authority.

 

Having the DH would be really helpful for him.

[JosephC]

I see a zero market for Braun at this time. Teams that seem to be the best fits, like San Francisco and Toronto, got off to such poor starts that there is no way they could justify making a trade for a player like Braun. Texas could be a good fit, but their DH spot is tied up in the long-term by Choo. I just can't see any team having any sort of interest in him, especially now when the durability issues are popping up again.

[FVBrewerFan]

To be fair, it is possible he gets past these minor injuries, stays healthy and really rakes for an extended period of time. We must admit that's possible.

 

More likely, what we're seeing is Braun relegated to the role of a 4th OF who can really help when healthy. With all the OF talent they have, I just don't see how you can reserve a full time spot for Braun. We could even be looking at early retirement.

 

As far as a trade goes, I think this actually helps. I think it forces Mark A to realize they need to pay a big chunk of his salary, something they weren't willing to do in the past. It also forces Stearns to lower his expectations regarding the return.

[pacopete4]

More likely, what we're seeing is Braun relegated to the role of a 4th OF who can really help when healthy. With all the OF talent they have, I just don't see how you can reserve a full time spot for Braun. We could even be looking at early retirement.

 

 

Braun a 4th OF? Come on man. He'll be penciled into that 3-hole for the next four years as long as he wants to continue to play. He is one of the best hitters in the game. Too many people get excited from shiny new things these days.