What could Braun bring from anyone? (2017 version)

[JohnBriggs12]

Aren't we less than the Padres payroll when factoring in players not on the team?

 

At this point we might as well hold on to Braun until someone gets desperate because we can afford his contract.

 

I strongly disagree with the mentality of keeping a guy just because we can afford him. I'm not arguing that we should trade him, but we need more of a reason to keep a guy beyond just being financially able to.

 

Okay, here's one. Braun is still one of the permier bats in all of baseball, and should be for next couple seasons at worst. Nobody they are likely to acquire in a deal or they currently have in the minors is likely to replace his production until 2019 at the earliest but more likely 2020 if at all. If they want any chance of competing before 2020, they should hold on to Braun. Certainly if someone knocks them out with an offer, ok, but the names discussed to this point aren't in that category.

[pogokat]

Aren't we less than the Padres payroll when factoring in players not on the team?

 

At this point we might as well hold on to Braun until someone gets desperate because we can afford his contract.

 

I strongly disagree with the mentality of keeping a guy just because we can afford him. I'm not arguing that we should trade him, but we need more of a reason to keep a guy beyond just being financially able to.

 

Okay, here's one. Braun is still one of the permier bats in all of baseball, and should be for next couple seasons at worst. Nobody they are likely to acquire in a deal or they currently have in the minors is likely to replace his production until 2019 at the earliest but more likely 2020 if at all. If they want any chance of competing before 2020, they should hold on to Braun. Certainly if someone knocks them out with an offer, ok, but the names discussed to this point aren't in that category.

 

 

I agree with John.

 

The return of value being discussed in most of these proposals just doesn't make dealing Braun worth it. He's not harming the team---In fact, quite the opposite. Stearns is also smart enough to realize that Milwaukee is probably the only market where Braun has a positive impact on the fans, instead of a hugely negative one.

 

For everyone that accuses Stearns of being adhd with trades and waiver additions, I think Braun's still being on this team proves Stearn's cautious and calculated nature. Braun has more value to the Brewers as both a player (and a draw at the ticket window) than he does to other teams, so why trade him?

 

Until proven otherwise, he stays a Brewer.

[FVBrewerFan]

Okay, here's one. Braun is still one of the permier bats in all of baseball, and should be for next couple seasons at worst. Nobody they are likely to acquire in a deal or they currently have in the minors is likely to replace his production until 2019 at the earliest but more likely 2020 if at all. If they want any chance of competing before 2020, they should hold on to Braun. Certainly if someone knocks them out with an offer, ok, but the names discussed to this point aren't in that category.

 

I agree with the bolded part, however that's not the whole story. It's not as simple as Braun vs prospects acquired. It's Braun vs the player who replaces him in LF (Brinson, Phillips, whoever) PLUS the prospects they get PLUS Braun's salary to spend on yet another impact player. Impossible to know if WAR for all those players exceeds Braun, but it's highly probable. But I think 99% of us agree this shouldn't be salary dump. Hold onto him unless you get a really good SP prospect +. I'm just pointing out his production could be replaced, and those players will have an impact beyond 2-4 years.

[adambr2]

I can't argue with any of the arguments above. I've warmed up to the idea of keeping Braun, not for any sentimental reasons, but because he continues to remain productive and if a fair price isn't met, we shouldn't deal him.

 

I've had my doubts about him, I'll admit. Ultimately, at his age, and with the increasing number of nagging injuries he's had over the years, I've doubted he can sustain elite production. This is amplified by the questions of his past PED use. But he's surprised me so far, and though he's realistically more of a 140 game a year player now, that's really not that big of a deal. I still think he probably regresses some by 2020 but he's starting to look more like someone who will have a floor of at least an average player, rather than falling off completely. Even then, 3 years from now with the rising costs of salaries, if he was average, 19M would likely not be an overpay.

 

I guess my main concern over it is the logjam of legitimate OF prospects we're carrying and how he fits into that, but ultimately if he remains productive there's no reason to replace him. It would be perfect if we had the DH in the NL, but ultimately these things tend to sort themselves out. There's nothing saying too that Braun has to be the one traded, we could always look to move other excess outfielders to fill other holes on the team.

[statman0007]

I wonder if we missed our window to complete a deal with the Dodgers last summer because of the other trade the Dodgers did. If Stearns is looking for a top SP prospect, Jose De Leon would have checked the box and the Dodgers were clearly willing to deal him. Puig, McCarthy (to even out the salary), and De Leon would have been satisfactory to both sides.

[HighHeat19]

I wonder if we missed our window to complete a deal with the Dodgers last summer because of the other trade the Dodgers did. If Stearns is looking for a top SP prospect, Jose De Leon would have checked the box and the Dodgers were clearly willing to deal him. Puig, McCarthy (to even out the salary), and De Leon would have been satisfactory to both sides.

 

I don't remember where it was but that the offer was Puig McCarthy, DeLeon, AND 1 more player. And that the hang up was the last player.

 

If an offer like last year comes right down to the last minute, you know that both GM's were playing hardball. And this year it's no different. $100.00 says Stearns lights in his office will be on come 11:59 p.m. May 13th.

[adambr2]

DeLeon being a part of the deal is a total myth. There was never anything reputable that reported that he was part of the deal. If Puig and DeLeon were on the table and we were taking back just McCarthy's salary, the deal would have been made. And if not, it certainly would have been revisited in the off-season. But the Dodgers prioritized 2B for a reason.

 

Sorry, I just can't believe anyone thinks that the Dodgers agreed to send us Puig and DeLeon, take almost all of Braun's contract, and we were sitting there haggling over a 2nd prospect and let the clock expire. Stearns is smarter than that. There's been nothing ever reported on DeLeon having been on the table for Braun.

[JosephC]

The most credible reports indicated the deal was Braun for Puig, McCarthy, 1 unnamed prospect that had been agreed upon and the hang up was they could not agree on a second prospect that was to be included. The media made out like the deal was very close but who knows for sure because the team's may have been world's apart on the second prospect. My wild guess on the 1st prospect that was agreed upon would be someone like Brock Stewart, a solid starter candidate who is older and is effectively blocked with the Dodgers due to their glut of starting pitching. But the second prospect, the Brewers are known to have asked for Cody Bellinger but maybe the Dodgers were only willing to give up someone like Johan Mieses. I'm not really convinced they were ever that close because if they were the deal probably would have gotten done.

 

I agree with adambr2 that it's very unlikely that De Leon was agreed upon to be part of the trade.

[SandyTolan]

If the Brewers are in first place on July 31st, then the rebuild ended sooner than most observers anticipated. No way the team should sell anybody if the major leaguers are doing that well (and how well the minor league system is already stocked).

 

That would be a mistake. Same mistake they made in 2015, believing team was better than it was. Even if they're in 1st July 31st, stay the course. In no way does it mean rebuild ended.

 

Ah, you mean they'd have to destroy the team in order to save it?

 

Prediction: If the Brewers are in first place on July 31, and they deal Braun, Brewer fans (with the exception of a few on fan boards) will go crazy. And not in a good way.

[adambr2]

Fans do that. It's tough to stomach the JSOnline or Facebook comments sometimes because of the amount of facepalms you'll end up doing. I remember seeing some last year saying how crazy we were to trade Lucroy, and Stearns needed to be fired immediately, and we should just change our team name to the 'Milwaukee Prospects', and this and that.

 

Moot point, we won't be in 1st place on July 31st anyway. Well okay, never say never but it would be a small miracle.

[SandyTolan]

Fans do that. It's tough to stomach the JSOnline or Facebook comments sometimes because of the amount of facepalms you'll end up doing. I remember seeing some last year saying how crazy we were to trade Lucroy, and Stearns needed to be fired immediately, and we should just change our team name to the 'Milwaukee Prospects', and this and that.

 

Moot point, we won't be in 1st place on July 31st anyway. Well okay, never say never but it would be a small miracle.

 

But there is something to be said for the loyalty of fans to particular players. For example, I predict Thames very quickly will become an immense, Prince-like favorite, and I think it's right to consider that when factoring in whether to trade him or any guy. The fan's connection, young or old, should be respected. Not to the extent of really hurting the team, but if they start dealing favorites and guys that are super-important to the team while they're still in contention, that can and should be a problem. I would argue that that's the human factor beyond sheer numbers.

[adambr2]

Fans do that. It's tough to stomach the JSOnline or Facebook comments sometimes because of the amount of facepalms you'll end up doing. I remember seeing some last year saying how crazy we were to trade Lucroy, and Stearns needed to be fired immediately, and we should just change our team name to the 'Milwaukee Prospects', and this and that.

 

Moot point, we won't be in 1st place on July 31st anyway. Well okay, never say never but it would be a small miracle.

 

But there is something to be said for the loyalty of fans to particular players. For example, I predict Thames very quickly will become an immense, Prince-like favorite, and I think it's right to consider that when factoring in whether to trade him or any guy. The fan's connection, young or old, should be respected. Not to the extent of really hurting the team, but if they start dealing favorites and guys that are super-important to the team while they're still in contention, that can and should be a problem. I would argue that that's the human factor beyond sheer numbers.

 

I don't have a problem with that to an extent, but you have to know where to draw the line in the sand. I think if you had taken a poll of most casual fans after 2011, they would have liked us to spend whatever we needed to to keep Prince Fielder. Prince was a fan favorite and many casual fans were devastated to see him go. But paying him would have been much more devastating in the long run.

[FVBrewerFan]

Fans do that. It's tough to stomach the JSOnline or Facebook comments sometimes because of the amount of facepalms you'll end up doing. I remember seeing some last year saying how crazy we were to trade Lucroy, and Stearns needed to be fired immediately, and we should just change our team name to the 'Milwaukee Prospects', and this and that.

 

Moot point, we won't be in 1st place on July 31st anyway. Well okay, never say never but it would be a small miracle.

 

But there is something to be said for the loyalty of fans to particular players. For example, I predict Thames very quickly will become an immense, Prince-like favorite, and I think it's right to consider that when factoring in whether to trade him or any guy. The fan's connection, young or old, should be respected. Not to the extent of really hurting the team, but if they start dealing favorites and guys that are super-important to the team while they're still in contention, that can and should be a problem. I would argue that that's the human factor beyond sheer numbers.

 

I don't think there's anything to be said for fan loyalty. Fielder, Hart, Sabathia, Scooter, lots of fan favorites have moved on and attendance hasn't suffered. When Stearns is evaluating how to rebuild this team, I'm hoping 0% of his decisions are based on fan loyalty. Fans like winning, and will find new favorites.

[HighHeat19]

Looks like Bellinger is out of the possibilities of coming to Milwaukee.

[HighHeat19]

And Braun to L.A. They didn't bring Bellinger up to sit and start his clock. If he is in left, it truly says that Braun is not of interest to L.A. as Puig is in right and I would not expect a first baseman be able to play center.

 

This maybe the end of this thread with this move unless we see Bellinger in center. Or a platoon in right with Puig but I do not see that happening either.

 

However, it does reveal that the Dodgers are desperate for offense.

[pacopete4]

The end of this thread. Music to my ears! Braun's a Brewer. Let's roll!

[SandyTolan]

I would not expect a first baseman be able to play center.

 

 

That's what I assumed too, but then found this interesting bit from Jim Callis, the Dodgers' beat writer at MLB.com

 

Bellinger has experience playing all three outfield positions in the Minors, seeing more time in center field than on the corners. He moves well for a big man and has solid arm strength, and he's expected to see action in both center and left for the Dodgers.

 

So, maybe they put him in CF and there could still be room for Braun in LF? Seems doubtful but you never know. Also doubtful but not impossible: That the Dodgers are trying to get the Brewers to lower their price for Braun.

[adambr2]

I have no idea why Bellinger getting promoted would be any indication whatsoever of LA's interest level in Braun. Bellinger is likely LAs 1B of the future, not OF . Bellinger was never on the table for Braun, and it's not surprising they would want to see what they have internally before giving up anything substantial for a veteran.

 

Maybe Bellinger rakes from the start and LA never looks back, or maybe he struggles Joey Gallo style and is back down in 3 weeks and LA is back to other options. This doesn't tell us anything more than the Dodgers want to give Cody Bellinger a shot in MLB right now to see what he can do.

[MrTPlush]

If Bellinger struggles it may make the Dodgers want Braun more.

[LouisEly]

Bellinger's present may be in LF, but his future is at 1B, and with 35-year-old Gonzalez declining and a FA after next season it may be 1B sooner rather than later.

[brewcrewdue80]

He was called up because Joc Pederson's injury. I doubt he sticks in the Majors beyond Pederson's return from injury.

[JosephC]

Giant left fielders have somehow slashed .110/.185/.178/.363, but at 7-14 and Bumgarner out for 2 months one has to wonder if they are viewing themselves more as sellers at this point. Kind of incredible that things have gone so bad for them that the outlook could change so dramatically just 21 games in. Looking at off-season projections and, on average, the Giants were projected to win around 88 games.

[FVBrewerFan]

I have no idea why Bellinger getting promoted would be any indication whatsoever of LA's interest level in Braun. Bellinger is likely LAs 1B of the future, not OF . Bellinger was never on the table for Braun, and it's not surprising they would want to see what they have internally before giving up anything substantial for a veteran.

 

Maybe Bellinger rakes from the start and LA never looks back, or maybe he struggles Joey Gallo style and is back down in 3 weeks and LA is back to other options. This doesn't tell us anything more than the Dodgers want to give Cody Bellinger a shot in MLB right now to see what he can do.

 

Yea, it's a bit like saying the Brewers already have starting pitchers, why would they want Syndergaard !?!

 

I doubt the Dodgers are sitting around saying "we couldn't possibly use a huge bat to kill LH pitching." Same question remains from 723 pages ago. Are the Dodgers willing to give up what it takes to get him. How badly do they want/need him?

[Austin Tatious]

I haven't looked at the data recently, but the last time I checked the Dodgers needed a high OPS right handed stick because that was the sore spot in their lineup. Bellinger isn't a fix for that.

[MrTPlush]

I haven't looked at the data recently, but the last time I checked the Dodgers needed a high OPS right handed stick because that was the sore spot in their lineup. Bellinger isn't a fix for that.

 

If Bellinger provides a high OPS stick period they aren't going to spend $70mil on a mid 30s outfielder. Sure they want to hit LHP better, but I doubt they replace a good hitter for that reason alone. They will replace someone who is terrible overall to help that or not at all.

 

The money, prospects, and all the risk involved with trading for Braun all for 120 ABs against LHP as your improvement? Seems like a poor investment if Bellinger can hit.