Cardinals extend Molina

[JohnBriggs12]

3 years and $60 million through his age 37 season. Notable in that he will make more than Braun from 18-20. Say what you want about the Cardinals and their insufferable fan base, but they never surrender and the term "rebuild" isn't in their vocabulary. To me that's the essence of sports. Meanwhile Brewer fans watch former heroes like Lucroy playing postseason baseball for the Rangers having made no effort to reward him for being a great Brewer. Soon the same fate may befall Braun who despite his flaws has been the most productive player in franchise history not named Yount.

 

How refreshing for a team to value players for more than their worth as trade chips. Wish I could say the same about the Brewers.

[MrTPlush]

Cardinals sign Molina to 3 year extension after competing consistently for 2 decades and have a great team still.]

 

Brewers fail to sign Lucroy to extension after flirting with 100 loses for multiple years and have a bad team.

 

What exactly is the comparison you are trying to draw here? Also feel free to wait for that extension to play out. Could end up being a massive overpay for an average at best catcher.

[DHonks]

That contract extension has a great chance to be among the worst in history

[superfly]

3 years and $60 million through his age 37 season. Notable in that he will make more than Braun from 18-20. Say what you want about the Cardinals and their insufferable fan base, but they never surrender and the term "rebuild" isn't in their vocabulary. To me that's the essence of sports. Meanwhile Brewer fans watch former heroes like Lucroy playing postseason baseball for the Rangers having made no effort to reward him for being a great Brewer. Soon the same fate may befall Braun who despite his flaws has been the most productive player in franchise history not named Yount.

 

How refreshing for a team to value players for more than their worth as trade chips. Wish I could say the same about the Brewers.

 

You are honestly defending a 20 million a year deal for a 35 year old catcher as gospel? Look a few hundred miles to the west and see how a deal like that to Joe Mauer has completely DERAILED the Minnesota Twins franchise. And could have been doubly bad had they given Morneau a "lifetime" type of deal too.

[JohnBriggs12]

Cardinals sign Molina to 3 year extension after competing consistently for 2 decades and have a great team still.]

 

Brewers fail to sign Lucroy to extension after flirting with 100 loses for multiple years and have a bad team.

 

What exactly is the comparison you are trying to draw here? Also feel free to wait for that extension to play out. Could end up being a massive overpay for an average at best catcher.

 

Brewers didn't " flirt" with 100 losses at any time Lucroy wore a Brewer uniform. Your assertion is completely false. Cardinals finished 17 1/2 games behind Cubs last year. My point is Cards reaction isn't we can't possibly compete so let's deal off our best players for supposed payoff 5-6 years down the road. Brewers tossed in the towel after 2 bad months, one that took them out of playoffs in 2014, and the resulting hangover in the first month of 2015. You'd never see the Cardinals do that and then ask their fans for patience.

[JohnBriggs12]

3 years and $60 million through his age 37 season. Notable in that he will make more than Braun from 18-20. Say what you want about the Cardinals and their insufferable fan base, but they never surrender and the term "rebuild" isn't in their vocabulary. To me that's the essence of sports. Meanwhile Brewer fans watch former heroes like Lucroy playing postseason baseball for the Rangers having made no effort to reward him for being a great Brewer. Soon the same fate may befall Braun who despite his flaws has been the most productive player in franchise history not named Yount.

 

How refreshing for a team to value players for more than their worth as trade chips. Wish I could say the same about the Brewers.

 

You are honestly defending a 20 million a year deal for a 35 year old catcher as gospel? Look a few hundred miles to the west and see how a deal like that to Joe Mauer has completely DERAILED the Minnesota Twins franchise. And could have been doubly bad had they given Morneau a "lifetime" type of deal too.

 

On paper I don't disagree. But sometimes the right thing for your franchise goes beyond what's​ on paper. Mauer got what 10 years? This is 3 years. Totally different.

[adambr2]

This is the same organization that let their biggest star of this century walk in free agency rather than pay him, yes? We paid ours. You're comparing apples to oranges here. The Cardinals and Brewers are at different stages right now. Where the Cardinals finished relative to the Cubs isn't really relevant since they still won 86 games and were in playoff contention.

 

Also, that's a pretty bad deal for a 35 year old catcher who barely cracked 2 WAR last year, and I'm glad they did it.

[reillymcshane]

Say what you want about the Cardinals and their insufferable fan base, but they never surrender and the term "rebuild" isn't in their vocabulary.

That's because they have drafted well and developed their team in an efficient and effective manner.

 

For teams that haven't done that - like Milwaukee - the most effective way to get back to being a consistently competitive team is sweep away the decaying infrastructure and start over.

 

If St. Louis lost 90+ games a couple of years in a row, they'd be unloading players and 'rebuilding' just like others teams have done. They'd show Molina to the door as quick as possible.

 

That they are extending him is a testimony to the fact that they have developed their team well, and have a bright future, and feel he'll bring value to the club over the next few years.

[jerichoholicninja]

Stupid deal. It's probably not going to cripple them but it's a massive overpay for a declining player. I don't know if management has said anything about it but I've seen fans say that he can just slide to 1B when Carson Kelly is ready. Sure, replace you're .850 OPS hitter with a .700 OPS because you're overpaying him to be the face of your franchise. Makes perfect sense. When I looked up Yadier's career numbers I was surprised at how underwhelming they were. He sprinkled in a good year here and there with a lot of crap years at the plate.

[logan82]

You are a funny guy Briggs.

[Outlander]

I love it, I hope they continue to overspend on vets and be mediocre.

[brewcrewdue80]

Surprised they signed him, and didnt let him go to FA with a QO that the Cubs would sign in FA.

 

Molina hasnt been relevant with the bat for multiple yeats now. I have no clue how the Cardinals valued him this high or Molina asking for that much. 10mil sure. For 3 years or 12per for 2years. 20? Yep the Brewers traded Lucroy because this deal makes him worth 110mil for 4years now.

[trwi7]

Cardinals sign Molina to 3 year extension after competing consistently for 2 decades and have a great team still.]

 

Brewers fail to sign Lucroy to extension after flirting with 100 loses for multiple years and have a bad team.

 

What exactly is the comparison you are trying to draw here? Also feel free to wait for that extension to play out. Could end up being a massive overpay for an average at best catcher.

 

Brewers didn't " flirt" with 100 losses at any time Lucroy wore a Brewer uniform. Your assertion is completely false. Cardinals finished 17 1/2 games behind Cubs last year. My point is Cards reaction isn't we can't possibly compete so let's deal off our best players for supposed payoff 5-6 years down the road. Brewers tossed in the towel after 2 bad months, one that took them out of playoffs in 2014, and the resulting hangover in the first month of 2015. You'd never see the Cardinals do that and then ask their fans for patience.

 

The Cardinals won 86 games last year and were 1 game out of a wildcard spot. The Brewers lost 88 games in 2013, had an unexpected competitive season in 2014 before they fell apart, lost 94 games, which despite what you say is close to losing 100 games while Lucroy was still on the team and sorry to piss in your snow cone again but you don't lose 94 games by having only a bad first month.

 

With a terrible farm system and an aging, mediocre to bad roster, there was really only one option.

[danzig6767]

Stupid deal. It's probably not going to cripple them but it's a massive overpay for a declining player. I don't know if management has said anything about it but I've seen fans say that he can just slide to 1B when Carson Kelly is ready. Sure, replace you're .850 OPS hitter with a .700 OPS because you're overpaying him to be the face of your franchise. Makes perfect sense. When I looked up Yadier's career numbers I was surprised at how underwhelming they were. He sprinkled in a good year here and there with a lot of crap years at the plate.

I was totally for trading Lucroy, but you seriously underrate just how good Molina has been for quite awhile now.

 

He's been one of the best defensive catchers in the game for a long time, an above average hitter at his position most of those years, and amazingly durable given how many games he catches each season. As for him being in decline, Molina had a .787 OPS last year while playing in a whopping 147 games for a catcher.

 

Maybe age catches up to him this year or next season, who knows, but i don't see this as a massive overpay considering the amount of revenues in baseball today and it's only a three year deal.

[MillerParkSouth]

Wish the deal was longer and for more money tbh.

 

The Brewers aren't in the position to give aging players huge deals, especially when we suck, as has been discussed on this board ad naseum. The Lucroy trade was fantastic and 150% the right move for where we are as a franchise.

[FVBrewerFan]

3 years and $60 million through his age 37 season. Notable in that he will make more than Braun from 18-20. Say what you want about the Cardinals and their insufferable fan base, but they never surrender and the term "rebuild" isn't in their vocabulary. To me that's the essence of sports. Meanwhile Brewer fans watch former heroes like Lucroy playing postseason baseball for the Rangers having made no effort to reward him for being a great Brewer. Soon the same fate may befall Braun who despite his flaws has been the most productive player in franchise history not named Yount.

 

How refreshing for a team to value players for more than their worth as trade chips. Wish I could say the same about the Brewers.

 

I know you don't want to believe this, you are dug into your opinion and it won't change. But do you understand this is the Brewers' goal? To bring in a boat-load of young talent, continue to draft well, etc. so they can put themselves in a position where they CAN compete most every year?

 

Yea, they could have kept Lucroy and Davis, and they would have won the WS this year with that rotation?

[tomwopat]

I think most of the people are missing the point of this signing. The Cardinals simply have the monetary resources to take the risk that the baby Molina falls off a cliff offensively, and invest the goodwill of ensuring a franchise player retires with the club.

 

A small market team like the Brewers has to stay laser focused on ensuring their expenditures strongly contribute to winning.

 

Even if he becomes an offensive black hole they'll have the resources to make up for it elsewhere.

 

If I have anything to be annoyed about it's how much his batting average has inflated his value and how often he grounds into double plays.

[pogokat]

I love it when John Pines for the good ol' days of 2015.

 

Do you wish the Brewers had extended Prince Fielder?

[brewcrewdue80]

I think most of the people are missing the point of this signing. The Cardinals simply have the monetary resources to take the risk that the baby Molina falls off a cliff offensively, and invest the goodwill of ensuring a franchise player retires with the club.

 

A small market team like the Brewers has to stay laser focused on ensuring their expenditures strongly contribute to winning.

 

Even if he becomes an offensive black hole they'll have the resources to make up for it elsewhere.

 

If I have anything to be annoyed about it's how much his batting average has inflated his value and how often he grounds into double plays.

 

No, No, No that simply is not true. St Louis is a Small Market team why else do they get to participate in the Competitive Lottery, now set Pick or extra International funds?

[rwa12]

It's a Jeter deal...eat the cost for the fan base. His performance is irrelevant to the deal. STL can spend money if they need to, this won't affect them moving forward. I live in STL, there would be riots if they let Yadi walk. He's golden here.

[3and2Fastball]

As LaRussa put it when Molina was a rookie, the guy could hit .000 and still be an incredibly valuable player. He's a coach on the field, he is an absolutely amazing ballplayer. I have Molina as easily a Top 10 Catcher of All Time, and he is arguably a Top 3.

 

All the intangibles he brings to the table, the pitch framing, the way he calls a game, the stolen base prevention, the way he handles a pitching staff, the way he helps set the defense, plus the hitting makes WAR as a viable stat laughable (which is ironic because I am one of the biggest Mike Trout fans on the planet and I use WAR to help back up my arguments as to how great Trout is)

 

I think it was a smart extension, it is a unique situation which shouldn't be looked at in a vacuum though.

 

I remain convinced the Brewers are doing the right thing with their rebuild and was thrilled with the haul they got for Lucroy (who I think is moderately over rated) although I liked the Cleveland haul better (Francisco Mejia)

[LouisEly]

That's because they have drafted well and developed their team in an efficient and effective manner.

This is simply not true. They have won because they spent a lot of resources - both money and prospects - in acquiring and retaining talent, and because they got lucky in a couple of acquisitions and lucky in that those players they invested heavily in stayed healthy.

 

Look at the star players. Only two were drafted - Molina and Matt Carpenter. The rest were acquired via trades or free agents.

 

Molina - 4th round draft pick (Brewers drafted Lucroy in the 3rd round), paid him $81M career to date and owe him an additional $74M, combined $155M committed to him

Matt. Carpenter - 13th round draft pick

Carlos Martinez - originally signed by Boston as an amateur free agent but contract was voided, should never have been a Cardinal to begin with

Matt Holliday - acquired for two first round draft picks and a second round draft pick, given $130+M in salary

Wainwright - acquired for J.D. Drew, who was a Cardinal only because he refused to sign with Philadelphia who drafted him the year before, should never have been a Cardinal to begin with; given $130+M in salary

Fowler - given $82M in free agency

Leake - given $75M in free agency

Jh. Peralta - given $53M in free agency

Moss - traded former 1st round pick for him

Grichuk - acquired via trade

Jason Heyward - acquired for former 1st round pick (23-year-old #2-type starter)

Lackey - acquired via trade (and took on $15m/year in salary)

 

Yes, they've made a few draft picks that have had a couple of good seasons (S. Miller, Lynn, Garcia, Rosenthal, Piscotty, Wacha; four of them regressed significantly last year and one of them missed the season with injury), but they are hardly the stars of the team.

 

STL has given three players >$130M in contracts and two more players >$75M in contracts. They've traded no less than four former first round draft picks for established major league talent. Essentially they have done the exact opposite of what the people criticizing the original poster of this thread think/want the Brewers to do.

 

Not saying Briggs is right at all. Just saying that the narrative that the Cardinals have built their success on draft picks and development is not true.

[adambr2]

It's a Jeter deal...eat the cost for the fan base. His performance is irrelevant to the deal. STL can spend money if they need to, this won't affect them moving forward. I live in STL, there would be riots if they let Yadi walk. He's golden here.

 

Really? He personally kind of seems like a piece of trash. I mean I like Braun and all with him being a Brewer but I'm not blind to the fact that I would probably despise him if he spent the last 10 years with another organization.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think it's a Jeter deal was well. It's something of a luxury that is only afforded to teams/players that have achieved a certain level of success. The Brewers are not in a position to afford such luxuries at this juncture.

[Ennder]

It's a Jeter deal...eat the cost for the fan base. His performance is irrelevant to the deal. STL can spend money if they need to, this won't affect them moving forward. I live in STL, there would be riots if they let Yadi walk. He's golden here.

 

Really? He personally kind of seems like a piece of trash. I mean I like Braun and all with him being a Brewer but I'm not blind to the fact that I would probably despise him if he spent the last 10 years with another organization.

 

 

I think you are blinded by fandom here. Yadier Molina is one of the most respected players in the game. I also think he isn't done yet. He has had a lot of injury issues the past couple of years but when he finally got healthy later in the year last year he was very productive. I think this is a bad deal for their team because it is clearly an overpay. I do think it is defensible if they can bring up the next C in their system and that guy can learn from Molina the next couple of years. I don't know if that player is in their system or not since I don't follow the minors all that much.