Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers

[MadThinker88]

I don't harbor ill will toward Scooter or anything, but i'm glad he's gone. I think his value is overstated by some and he's never going to be the difference maker a Kipnis/Cano/Altuve/Turner is. Villar's ceiling is much more likely to.

 

Great point. Objectively Scooter was easily in the bottom 3rd of baseball, perhaps in the bottom 25% or 20%.

[bork]

I just realized the we'll have just 2 homegrown position players on the team, but potentially 5 homegrown pitchers. Quite the reversal from the not too distant past.

[Ennder]

I don't harbor ill will toward Scooter or anything, but i'm glad he's gone. I think his value is overstated by some and he's never going to be the difference maker a Kipnis/Cano/Altuve/Turner is. Villar's ceiling is much more likely to.

 

Great point. Objectively Scooter was easily in the bottom 3rd of baseball, perhaps in the bottom 25% or 20%.

 

 

I have read this forum for years and I have never seen even one person suggest he would be anywhere close to any of those players in value. I don't think anyone thought he would be even halfway as valuable as those guys. He was thought of a solid but unspectacular player that wouldn't hurt he team and would help with a positive park/platoon split. It is definitely nice having better players overall but there is nothing wrong with Scooter as a 2B against RHP in some sort of rotation at the position.

[3and2Fastball]

Scooter is an easy player to root for. He's one of those guys who has maximized his God given gifts, and he's a class act. Signs for kids before games, puts in extra work, seems to love the game.

 

I understand why he is gone, but as a fan I'll miss him. And I bet he has a great season with the Reds.

[Invader3K]

There was just no place for him here in Milwaukee any more. I wish him well...like others said, he seems to enjoy the game and tries to maximize his talents. No reason to harbor any ill will towards him.

[monty57]

Villar is likely just a placeholder until Isan Diaz comes up and rakes, anyways. Diaz looks like the real deal.

 

Didn't the Brewers just try to extend Villar? Maybe they just thought that the contract would make him more valuable in trade in a couple of years, but usually offering a player an extension means you view them as more than a "placeholder."

 

Villar will have to prove he is better than Scooter at second..

 

Maybe to some fans, but the Brewers' actions have shown that in their eyes Villar has already proven that he is a better option than Scooter at second.

 

Scooter never did anything wrong. I hope he succeeds in Cincinnati.

 

Me too. Nothing against Scooter, or any player, but it's good that we are getting more talented players on the roster. Fans can and will form emotional attachments to certain players, but a GM can't do that. For them, this is a business. When lesser talented players are replaced with more talented players, the team gets better. If we can keep making incremental steps in that direction, pretty soon we'll have a good team.

[Boomer5]

He was like the 2nd pick on waivers so he must have had some value. At $2.5 M you're getting a starting 2B who does a nice job out there and is an all around nice guy as a bonus.

 

Villar is a better 2B for the Brewers so really no harm done to the roster.

[pacopete4]

At $2.5 M you're getting a starting 2B

 

 

There's a good chance he's not the Reds starting second basemen.

[CheezWizHed]

Villar is likely just a placeholder until Isan Diaz comes up and rakes, anyways. Diaz looks like the real deal.

 

Didn't the Brewers just try to extend Villar? Maybe they just thought that the contract would make him more valuable in trade in a couple of years, but usually offering a player an extension means you view them as more than a "placeholder."

 

I'm not sure why it needs to be either or... What if its both?

 

Villar has risk on repeating next year. He has upside too. Diaz and Dubon are both in the minors with no guarantee of hitting MLB level.

 

Extending Villar to a good contract and buying out the first couple years of arby (or maybe FA) is just good business. If he flops, you eat the contract and replace him. If he plays to his contract, but Diaz/Dubon outplay him, you trade Villar. If he outplays Diaz/Dubon, you keep him.

 

Its just good asset management as long as the contracts aren't massively favoring the player.

[LaprilOne]

Poking around today, and clicked on the "Power 50" link. It has not been updated since 2011, but it was very interesting to see some very familiar names discussed in their early years with the Brewers. Also timely was this post on Scooter:

 

"A nice June and July after a truly unsightly May can have Scooter feeling OK about his high-A season. But when you're only walking once every 20 AB's, you're only 8-for-15 on the basepaths, you're filling the error column, and you don't play shortstop, you're not a dynamic middle infield prospect. And that drops you out of the P50 Top 10, even if just barely. Prove us wrong, Scooter."

[jerichoholicninja]

Not sure how long he lived in Cincinnati but he was born there so he may be a bigger fan favorite there than in Milwaukee. Also, according to Wikipedia he is "an avid potter." Would never have guessed that.

[JimH5]

More than once, the Brewers Community Foundation has auctioned off sessions of making pottery with Scooter. Winning bidders got to experience that along with some other stuff.

[logan82]

More than once, the Brewers Community Foundation has auctioned off sessions of making pottery with Scooter. Winning bidders got to experience that along with some other stuff.

Got to or had to?

[JimH5]

My family (wife and daughter) were really hoping to win that at auction.

 

Scooter has a boyish charm.

[Bombers]

This one could come back to haunt them. Red's weren't the only team that would have claimed him. They had first shot. Stearns drove his value down by announcing Villar move. Villar was bad defensively at both SS and 3B so I get it but I'm not sure Villar will hit anywhere close to his 2016 numbers.

Bump - good call Briggs, considering most on here were applauding him being let go. I never got it and was always a scooter fan. Maybe next time they will think twice about straight up cutting a career .280 hitter. I mean who honestly does that? For all the good moves Stearns has done, this is one that could have easily been avoided.

[adambr2]

[sarcasm]First I've heard that Briggs thought this was a bad move.[/sarcasm]

 

Seriously, this has been beaten to death more than anything this year.

 

We (the Brewers) thought it was a good move at the time, both because of what we expected from Villar and the fact that we obviously weren't able to get anything for Scooter.

 

It obviously turned out to be a bad move. I'm sure if Stearns knew what he knew now, he would not have waived him. It was a mistake. Briggs was right. It happens. I'd still take Stearns' and his success rate over the theoretical roster that Briggs would have assembled over the years (no offense, Briggs).

 

I'm sure the Blue Jays regret trading Syndergaard, the Dbacks regret trading Scherzer and the Orioles regret trading Arrieta.

[OnTheBlack]

This one could come back to haunt them. Red's weren't the only team that would have claimed him. They had first shot. Stearns drove his value down by announcing Villar move. Villar was bad defensively at both SS and 3B so I get it but I'm not sure Villar will hit anywhere close to his 2016 numbers.

Bump - good call Briggs, considering most on here were applauding him being let go. I never got it and was always a scooter fan. Maybe next time they will think twice about straight up cutting a career .280 hitter. I mean who honestly does that? For all the good moves Stearns has done, this is one that could have easily been avoided.

 

One who in the previous nearly 1000 PA's had a slash line of .263/.307/.399, couldn't hit lefties, was starting to get more expensive and didn't fit in with the teams future plans. There's also the fact that he's playing in Cincy(a sandbox) and has more than doubled his HR/FB ratio.

 

It'd be nice to have had his production at 2nd base this year, a year in which we ended up contending when nobody thought we had a chance. So using hindsight.... I absolutely agree, it'd be great to have had a 2nd basemen who's OPS jumped 200 points from his previous 2 seasons to .900 this year. But when you had Villar coming off the type of year he had, plus an abundance of MIF'ers coming up(or already up) and Arcia cemented as your SS of the future, it made plenty of sense to move on from him.

 

This is really getting ridiculous....repeatedly bringing up this Gennett move. He's gone. It looked like the right move at the time, and I'm guessing after his comes back down to Earth after his career year and posts a .750 OPS next year while playing poor defense and even hitting .280 walking at a 6 pct clip, it'll look like the right move again. And if Villar bounces back to the player HE was in '16 and a truncated '15 season, it'll look that much better.

 

Also, hasn't just cited a players batting average as an argument that said player is good player become as outdated an argument as arguing how good a pitcher is by using W/L record?

[Brewer Fever]

So a guy says hundreds of ridiculous things and now we're bumping topics to give him a pat on the back for being against a move 90% of us still agree was the right move at the time?

 

All this does is prove that being "loud" has it's benefits. Let's not forget that many of this guy's posts have been downright trollish lately. Don't feed it

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If there was any argument here, it's that the Brewers straight up cut Gennett, rather than trade him. But that's also a indicator that the Brewers had his value pegged pretty close to right on the money. No one would even give up a low-level lottery ticket for get him. That says a lot, career year aside. Sometimes a change of scenery just works wonders.

[JohnBriggs12]

So a guy says hundreds of ridiculous things and now we're bumping topics to give him a pat on the back for being against a move 90% of us still agree was the right move at the time?

 

All this does is prove that being "loud" has it's benefits. Let's not forget that many of this guy's posts have been downright trollish lately. Don't feed it

 

This is a forum for opinions. Because mine don't agree with yours shouldn't make me an object for personal ridicule. I argue facts and use my experience watching baseball since 1958. I don't degrade those who disagree. Gennett has been great. I saw his value. Stearns and 90% of the posters on here didn't. They were proven wrong. I haven't posted anything on it in months. Others brought it up apparently upset because I was right. Have I been wrong at times? Sure. But in this case I was right on the money. Gennett > Villar. It's pretty simple. Deal with it.

 

Notice I didn't stoop to a "snowflake" reference?

[JohnBriggs12]

If there was any argument here, it's that the Brewers straight up cut Gennett, rather than trade him. But that's also a indicator that the Brewers had his value pegged pretty close to right on the money. No one would even give up a low-level lottery ticket for get him. That says a lot, career year aside. Sometimes a change of scenery just works wonders.

 

Gennett's career numbers: .283/.324/.447. He wasn't a bum as a Brewer. They fell in love with Villar based on one year.

 

Neil Walker's career numbers: .273/.340/.437

 

They are essentially the same player only Scooter is 4 years younger. Walker has trouble vs. LHP too by the way (.694 career OPS vs LH). Walker's making $17 million this year.

 

As to the argument he had zero trade value, that's on the Brewers who annointed Villar the everyday 2B. Nevertheless, the first team with a shot at claiming him off waivers did just that. The Reds were that team. No doubt at least 5 or more other teams would have put in a claim too.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

So a guy says hundreds of ridiculous things and now we're bumping topics to give him a pat on the back for being against a move 90% of us still agree was the right move at the time?

 

All this does is prove that being "loud" has it's benefits. Let's not forget that many of this guy's posts have been downright trollish lately. Don't feed it

 

This is a forum for opinions. Because mine don't agree with yours shouldn't make me an object for personal ridicule. I argue facts and use my experience watching baseball since 1958. I don't degrade those who disagree. Gennett has been great. I saw his value. Stearns and 90% of the posters on here didn't. They were proven wrong. I haven't posted anything on it in months. Others brought it up apparently upset because I was right. Have I been wrong at times? Sure. But in this case I was right on the money. Gennett > Villar. It's pretty simple. Deal with it.

 

Notice I didn't stoop to a "snowflake" reference?

 

Lies! Pure and simple. You've brought it up in several other unrelated threads over the last month. I am willing to admit that you hit on this one, but don't paint yourself as the innocent victim here. You've been rubbing other posters' noses in Gennett's success for quite a while now.

[Bombers]

My original intent was to note how many thought it was a no brainer to anoint Villar the everyday 2B and noticed Brigg's comment so I pointed it out. I can't say I really disagreed with handing the rains to Villar, although history begs us to consider that 1 year isn't a large enough sample. Many of us will jump to sample size but for some reason we quickly forget it (me included) when a guy has 1-2 good years. (Bill Hall, Casey McGehee, etc) Then we are surprised when he falls off a cliff.

 

I am glad Stearns didn't trade away major pieces this summer to this exact reason. I am still not all that positive to what we have in Shaw, Pina, to some extent our 1B situation screams of a similar situation. There is no guarantee those guys come back and keep the same production. Maybe Villar turns it around next year, maybe he never does. Maybe another guys falls off the cliff. One just never knows. Anyhow, I think we can close this chapter - sorry to those who were offended for bringing it back up

[gregmag]

The whole "my god, how could we give up on Scooter" narrative is a joke. He's having a nice little year -- 2.5 fWAR, 2.4 bWAR. Really it was a great first half; in the second half he's reverted to being Scooter Gennett. He's still a mediocre defender. He still needs a platoon partner. He's had your basic age-27 breakout (half) year, and as breakouts go it's nothing special. Teams throw away more valuable assets than Gennett every day. Nothing to see here.

 

BTW, while it's true that Villar has stunk up the joint this year, Sogard has been good for 1 fWAR / 1.6 bWAR in less than a half season's worth of playing time. If an honest person were inclined to vilify Stearns for giving Gennett away, such a person would have to offset the criticism by noting how Stearns ameliorated his mistake by picking up good free talent when Villar faltered.

[pacopete4]

The whole "my god, how could we give up on Scooter" narrative is a joke. He's having a nice little year -- 2.5 fWAR, 2.4 bWAR. Really it was a great first half; in the second half he's reverted to being Scooter Gennett. He's still a mediocre defender. He still needs a platoon partner. He's had your basic age-27 breakout (half) year, and as breakouts go it's nothing special. Teams throw away more valuable assets than Gennett every day. Nothing to see here.

 

BTW, while it's true that Villar has stunk up the joint this year, Sogard has been good for 1 fWAR / 1.6 bWAR in less than a half season's worth of playing time. If an honest person were inclined to vilify Stearns for giving Gennett away, such a person would have to offset the criticism by noting how Stearns ameliorated his mistake by picking up good free talent when Villar faltered.

 

This was written perfectly for me. Scooter is having a nice season. He still is a liability in the field and only plays one position. Those are two big knocks against him that he probably will never overcome. He has been a fine hitter, average wise, for his career so it is interesting to see the offensive output but I wouldn't put much into it going forward. Even if he does, so what? The smart move was to see what Villar could do (and we still should) at second base. People keep getting blinded (myself included) because we happen to be a couple games away from a playoff spot. This team, this year, was supposed to figure out who are the pieces moving forward into years after this one. Stearns has continued to do that while bringing in pieces to help us compete. If anyone has any gripes it should be that guys like Drake and Torres somehow have been on this team from start to finish. Not this.