2017 bullpen

[newrivervalley]

Peralta could really solidify the BP. Woodruff is a starter or nothing.

[BrewCrewForever]

I think bringing up Hader to the pen in late August makes some sense. Keeps his innings down, gets him experience on a playoff team (assuming Brewers are still contending). Teams have done it before (Rays did it with Price back in the day)

 

Was going to say this same thing. A perfect way for Hader to get his first taste of the big leagues in August. Pen could really use a guy like him.

[NYChez]

Cravy up. Espino down.

[Never Outhustled]

I think bringing up Hader to the pen in late August makes some sense. Keeps his innings down, gets him experience on a playoff team (assuming Brewers are still contending). Teams have done it before (Rays did it with Price back in the day)

 

Hader needs to build up his innings, not limit them.

 

Huge difference between him and Price. Price was dominating the minors, Hader has struggled at AAA.

[adambr2]

I think bringing up Hader to the pen in late August makes some sense. Keeps his innings down, gets him experience on a playoff team (assuming Brewers are still contending). Teams have done it before (Rays did it with Price back in the day)

 

Hader needs to build up his innings, not limit them.

 

Huge difference between him and Price. Price was dominating the minors, Hader has struggled at AAA.

 

Hader is already only 80 innings from hitting his total last year, we can only build them up so much in a year. If he continues to start regularly in AAA til August and then joins our pen the rest of the year there's no reason he can't finish around 150 innings which would be about right where we want him.

 

Not sure what Price dominating the minors has to do with Hader. Just because Hader hasn't excelled in the Colorado Springs rotation doesn't mean he can't pitch effectively out of the Brewer bullpen with his stuff, where many scouts think he will have far greater success anyway.

[ebmackenzie]

Hader has been told not to worry about numbers but to concentrate on using secondary pitches more often and anywhere in the count so he will not be as impressive on paper. Hader is going to be a late year call up if we are still in it.

 

Getting to "still in it" will be up to our hitters and the collection of Counsell's castoffs in the pen (JHughes, ODrake, now Peralta) and the fun part of the field player rosters.

 

Junior comes back as the Ace, Garza simply holds form, JNelson, Davies, and Chase will be the rotation unless one bottoms out then maybe Woodruff. I can't see a major trade for Cole or Quintana NOR can we deadline trade Garza, move JNelson to the 'pen and expect to "still be in it" with what is left...

[rickh150]

Hader has been told not to worry about numbers but to concentrate on using secondary pitches more often and anywhere in the count so he will not be as impressive on paper. Hader is going to be a late year call up if we are still in it.

 

Getting to "still in it" will be up to our hitters and the collection of Counsell's castoffs in the pen (JHughes, ODrake, now Peralta) and the fun part of the field player rosters.

 

Junior comes back as the Ace, Garza simply holds form, JNelson, Davies, and Chase will be the rotation unless one bottoms out then maybe Woodruff. I can't see a major trade for Cole or Quintana NOR can we deadline trade Garza, move JNelson to the 'pen and expect to "still be in it" with what is left...

 

Hader and Woodruff are going to be up here this year at some point.... regardless.

"Still in it" will be up to our starting pitching more than anything.

Agree that a major trade for a SP is not coming. Woodruff and Hader are the hope and prayer if we are in it late. A trade of a good not great OF prospect from our heap for a lefty bullpen arm with years of control would not shock me. Actually, I expect that sooner rather than later.

[adambr2]

Hader has been told not to worry about numbers but to concentrate on using secondary pitches more often and anywhere in the count so he will not be as impressive on paper. Hader is going to be a late year call up if we are still in it.

 

Getting to "still in it" will be up to our hitters and the collection of Counsell's castoffs in the pen (JHughes, ODrake, now Peralta) and the fun part of the field player rosters.

 

Junior comes back as the Ace, Garza simply holds form, JNelson, Davies, and Chase will be the rotation unless one bottoms out then maybe Woodruff. I can't see a major trade for Cole or Quintana NOR can we deadline trade Garza, move JNelson to the 'pen and expect to "still be in it" with what is left...

 

Hader and Woodruff are going to be up here this year at some point.... regardless.

"Still in it" will be up to our starting pitching more than anything.

Agree that a major trade for a SP is not coming. Woodruff and Hader are the hope and prayer if we are in it late. A trade of a good not great OF prospect from our heap for a lefty bullpen arm with years of control would not shock me. Actually, I expect that sooner rather than later.

 

That sounds like a Will Smith type, and after seeing what the Giants gave up for a Will Smith type last year I hope we don't do that.

 

I don't know who would be available but I still think Hader will be in the pen at some point this year and Wang is also a lefty option in AAA pitching very well.

 

Any cheaply available lefties will be the Tommy Milones of the world. Anyone worth acquiring will likely be expensive.

[ebmackenzie]

AAA LHB have a .418 OPS vs Hader; all hitters vs Hader have a .793 OPS in May after a .792 OPS in April.

I think we have our LOOGY for free if this keeps up. Hader is working on specific pitches and Brewers mgmt isn't too worried about his overall numbers, but that OPS vs LHB is impressive.

 

Oddly enough LHB have a .444 OPS vs Woodruff (RHB have a .762 OPS), but all hitters have a .742 OPS in May after a .540 OPS in April. Although this is Colorado, he is going to have to keep that OPS from going further north whether he replaces a starter or a reliever.

 

Knebel, Barnes, Feliz, Wily P, CTorres > Hader > (choose 1 or 2 of) Scahill, Hughes, ODrake, Cravy, Suter, Espino

Barring a trade (that may not be necessary).

[pacopete4]

Cravy comes up for an off day, back down the next. Can't imagine he's too pleased.

[Sixto]

Refresh my memory guys. Wasn't it not too long ago that we damn near had a 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th inning guy ? And it actually worked ok ?

I'm not saying it's a good way to go, but it kind of goes back to my idea to add middle relief guys and try a little more smoke and mirrors magic. It's certainly cheaper and less risky than trying to add starters.

Granted, we are a ways off from pulling that off too

[rickh150]

Cravy comes up for an off day, back down the next. Can't imagine he's too pleased.

 

Have to believe he was told that he would only be up for a day....

[adambr2]

Cravy comes up for an off day, back down the next. Can't imagine he's too pleased.

 

Have to believe he was told that he would only be up for a day....

 

I don't think they knew for sure. It was still kind of iffy on whether or not Braun would be able to return for sure or not when they called up Cravy.

[Outlander]

I have seen about enough of Scahill. His ERA looks okay with the Brewers but his secondary numbers are not very good. Really don't know how he has gotten so many opportunities in the majors as his AAA numbers for his career are pretty bad., lifetime WHIP of nearly 1.5 and AAA ERA of nearly 5. If they don't see a future with Espino in the rotation wouldn't mind him getting a look in the bullpen after the 10 days are up, would even prefer Cravy over Scahill.

[monty57]

Arcia wasn't even a good AAA hitter, if they send him there, it wouldn't be a bad move at all. It's for his development. They're not cutting him

 

Agree. I just did a quick scan of SS with a minimum 75 PA, and Arcia ranks:

 

26th in OPS at .637

28th in OBP at .277

 

His defense is helping his overall value, but his hitting is pathetic. I think we have a number of options at SS who could provide as much or more value to the team right now than Arcia, and by having him on the team now (and half of last year) we are going to lose out on some of his prime years when he will be tremendously valuable.

 

It won't happen, but I see no problem with sending Arcia to AAA to work on things.

[danzig6767]

Arcia wasn't even a good AAA hitter, if they send him there, it wouldn't be a bad move at all. It's for his development. They're not cutting him

 

Agree. I just did a quick scan of SS with a minimum 75 PA, and Arcia ranks:

 

26th in OPS at .637

28th in OBP at .277

 

His defense is helping his overall value, but his hitting is pathetic. I think we have a number of options at SS who could provide as much or more value to the team right now than Arcia, and by having him on the team now (and half of last year) we are going to lose out on some of his prime years when he will be tremendously valuable.

 

It won't happen, but I see no problem with sending Arcia to AAA to work on things.

If they did send Arcia down, they could just play Perez at SS.

[pacopete4]

Sometimes I am a little shocked at the impatience I see on here. Sometimes when you have young guys you need to ride it out with them and allow them to get the experience and grow.

[adambr2]

Sometimes I am a little shocked at the impatience I see on here. Sometimes when you have young guys you need to ride it out with them and allow them to get the experience and grow.

 

There was a pretty common sentiment when we called up Arcia last year among some, not everyone, that they called him up too soon.

 

I can see this one from both sides. I can appreciate the value of getting the MLB experience, and I do expect him to improve. With that said, while his glove is definitely MLB ready, even his Colorado Springs numbers were a pretty good indicator that his bat wasn't and probably still isn't. It wouldn't have been difficult to justify keeping him down.

 

They could have waited until this summer and had SS covered with Villar last year and still had it covered this spring with Perez and Sogard. Then called Arcia up this summer and had an extra year of control in Arcia's prime rather than right now when he's really no better than other internal options.

 

So for me, it's not about being patient or impatient, it's about whether it's a wise use of our assets to sacrifice that service year down the road for the MLB experience now. I don't know the answer to that but obviously the club felt it was.

[JohnBriggs12]

I have seen about enough of Scahill. His ERA looks okay with the Brewers but his secondary numbers are not very good. Really don't know how he has gotten so many opportunities in the majors as his AAA numbers for his career are pretty bad., lifetime WHIP of nearly 1.5 and AAA ERA of nearly 5. If they don't see a future with Espino in the rotation wouldn't mind him getting a look in the bullpen after the 10 days are up, would even prefer Cravy over Scahill.

 

Really, Scahill? Hughes has a WHIP of 1.773, and Drake also has a higher WHIP than Scahill. So does Torres. Scahill's WHIP as a Brewer is 1.186. Forget Scahill's career numbers which aren't horrific by any means. Almost half his major league innings were as a Colorado Rockie.

[FVBrewerFan]

Arcia wasn't even a good AAA hitter, if they send him there, it wouldn't be a bad move at all. It's for his development. They're not cutting him

 

Agree. I just did a quick scan of SS with a minimum 75 PA, and Arcia ranks:

 

26th in OPS at .637

28th in OBP at .277

 

His defense is helping his overall value, but his hitting is pathetic. I think we have a number of options at SS who could provide as much or more value to the team right now than Arcia, and by having him on the team now (and half of last year) we are going to lose out on some of his prime years when he will be tremendously valuable.

 

It won't happen, but I see no problem with sending Arcia to AAA to work on things.

 

Off the top of my head, Yount, Hardy, Escobar, and Segura were all SS that struggled early on. Point being, sometimes the development needs to take place at the MLB level. A case could be made that hitting in CS could actually hurt him more than help at this point.

[brewcrewdue80]

Just by putting Wily in the pen the bullpen has been adjusted for a move toimprove not only it, but the SP. Great job. Let the month of May finish and 12games in to June finish to see the results and need for next adjustment. Using that 25th man to rotate through the Scahills and Cravy types.

[dacbrewers]

I prefer Scahill over Hughes or Drake...High Whips, low era usually mean they are getting out of trouble that they created fairly consistently.

[MrTPlush]

Arcia wasn't even a good AAA hitter, if they send him there, it wouldn't be a bad move at all. It's for his development. They're not cutting him

 

Agree. I just did a quick scan of SS with a minimum 75 PA, and Arcia ranks:

 

26th in OPS at .637

28th in OBP at .277

 

His defense is helping his overall value, but his hitting is pathetic. I think we have a number of options at SS who could provide as much or more value to the team right now than Arcia, and by having him on the team now (and half of last year) we are going to lose out on some of his prime years when he will be tremendously valuable.

 

It won't happen, but I see no problem with sending Arcia to AAA to work on things.

 

Off the top of my head, Yount, Hardy, Escobar, and Segura were all SS that struggled early on. Point being, sometimes the development needs to take place at the MLB level. A case could be made that hitting in CS could actually hurt him more than help at this point.

 

Alcides Escobar is still terrible. Actually one of his Top 3 years was his first extended stint. I find it interesting people assume Arcia will become this uber valuable SS down the road. He very well may just be a terrible hitter much like Escobar.

 

Also Hardy wasn't that bad early on either and his career offensively wasn't ever that good. Arcia is terrible...TERRIBLE. He is like a second pitcher most ABs.

[Greenleaf1]

Did I miss something? Is Arcia a member of our bullpen?

[pacopete4]

Did I miss something? Is Arcia a member of our bullpen?

 

I'll take him over a couple of them.