2017 bullpen

[Jaylyn]

As a 9-5er, I take no offense to what Cravy said, we do treat each other like humans in our jobs. We, as a society promote performance as the measurement of how a well a person does in their chosen profession and a good performance is rewarded with a promotion. Cravy and Scahill did just that, instead they get the boot due to politics. Jungmann, I can understand, former 1st round pick, want to give him quite a few chances before you part ways. However, Barnes and Millone? Barnes has options and does have a future with this club, going to CS to do some more work after his spring would not have been viewed as a slap in face. Millone, I just don't get it. If you wanted a lefty, what was wrong with Suter, who again, performed better!

Cravy called them out on what he felt was a breach of performance based societal norms. There are times to let things slide, but in this situation he has the facts to back up his assertion and so does Scahill. Sorry guys, but America has become a country where principles are only applied when its convenient. Poorly handled by management, if this had been handled right, this would not be a story.

[markedman5]

[adambr2]

 

He and his wife had a baby in February and he thinks he earned major league money, but will make much less in AAA.

 

He'll make $86,500 this year at the least as a 40 man roster member with MLB experience. It's not like they'll be living in poverty.

 

If he just goes to AAA and does his job, he'll be back up soon. It's not like we are going to use only 8 relievers all year.

[brewmann04]

Jungmann pitched well and craved will get a chance

[brewmann04]

Jungmann pitched well and cravey will get a chance

[JohnBriggs12]

Jungmann pitched well and cravey will get a chance

 

It's not Jungmann making the team ahead of him that has him and Scahill upset. It's Milone and Barnes. Both Cravy and Scahill not only performed well in Arizona, but last year with Brewers.

 

I'm glad he popped off. It's time to take some shine off the Theo Epstein wannabe Stearns.

[JimH5]

 

He and his wife had a baby in February and he thinks he earned major league money, but will make much less in AAA.

 

He'll make $86,500 this year at the least as a 40 man roster member with MLB experience. It's not like they'll be living in poverty.

 

If he just goes to AAA and does his job, he'll be back up soon. It's not like we are going to use only 8 relievers all year.

 

And every single payday in the minors he'll get tens of thousands less than he thinks he deserved, based on what he thinks was dishonesty from the front office. With a new baby at home, he's got responsibilities beyond just being a good company soldier.

 

His goal isn't to avoid poverty, it's to be a major league pitcher, which he thinks he has earned.

 

This is the first time Stearns' awesomeness is questioned, and I'm fine with it.

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

Welcome to the St. Paul Saints, Mr. Cravy. If you had better than under average pitches you might have made the roster. By the way, no one works 9 to 5 jobs unless you work in sales. Oh well, as long as Walmart respects you.

[homer]

If he thinks all 9 - 5ers are treated better than that then I hope he never gets laid off unexpectedly.

[adambr2]

 

He and his wife had a baby in February and he thinks he earned major league money, but will make much less in AAA.

 

He'll make $86,500 this year at the least as a 40 man roster member with MLB experience. It's not like they'll be living in poverty.

 

If he just goes to AAA and does his job, he'll be back up soon. It's not like we are going to use only 8 relievers all year.

 

And every single payday in the minors he'll get tens of thousands less than he thinks he deserved, based on what he thinks was dishonesty from the front office. With a new baby at home, he's got responsibilities beyond just being a good company soldier.

 

His goal isn't to avoid poverty, it's to be a major league pitcher, which he thinks he has earned.

 

This is the first time Stearns' awesomeness is questioned, and I'm fine with it.

 

That's life. Could the initial Spring Training conversations been handled better, probably. I can't really say having not knowing exactly what was said. I can't also say what Counsell wants as far as his bullpen structure either. I really do think players and agents should be familiar enough with the MLB game by now to know that all MLB roster plans are subject to change based on your team direction, keeping depth in the system, and a million other factors and constantly moving parts.

 

What I do know is that Cravy is a marginal MLB caliber talent, like a million others out there, good enough to carve out a successful career as an AAAA type player, not good enough to ever really be missed if he was gone.

 

Cravy has responsibilities now that go beyond being a good company soldier? Yeah, he definitely does, but as a marginal MLB talent, he better be a good company soldier if he wants to carve out a career as a MLB reliever to support his family.

[JimH5]

He doesn't think he's marginal. He thinks he is better than at least one of the guys who made the team and who will make 6 times more in salary than he will.

 

And he thought it was an open competition that he won. He thought he was lied to.

 

Our default position is that Stearns and the front office are good, honest and capable. And they probably are. But please keep open the possibility that they're not. Or at least that they dropped it on this roster decision--otherwise we get into circular sycophantic thinking that the GM is right because he's the GM.

 

What I really don't get is the "keep your mouth shut and do as you're told" kind of thinking from other posters that none of us would comply with in our own lives. Cravy should be no different.

 

He'll report to AAA. But I think it's good that he opened up about his treatment. And I also think Stearns reacted well to Cravy's comments.

[adambr2]

What I really don't get is the "keep your mouth shut and do as you're told" kind of thinking from other posters that none of us would comply with in our own lives. Cravy should be no different.

 

Sure they would. Guys get passed over for promotion for people they felt are less deserving all the time in the real world. Happened to me about 12 years ago, actually. Was I pissed, of course. I complained privately to family and friends, but certainly not to superiors, and I most definitely did not question their integrity publicly, because to do so would have threatened my career, as it would in many walks of life. Unless things have really changed that much, it is still not acceptable to do that as far as I know.

 

Now Cravy will likely get the benefit of the doubt for his frustrations by the organization, and I understand and respect that. But he doesn't have a leg to stand on no matter how frustrated he is. He can report to Colorado Springs and collect his $86,500 a year for now and be called up soon and make an MLB salary. Or he can quit like he says and start over at 27 making nothing.

[Outlander]

He doesn't have to keep his mouth shut, be mad he didn't make the team. He played the victim card as the everyday man that should grind it out in a 9-5 job when he made over 200k last year and likely to make more than that this year when all is said and done.

[dacbrewers]

One of the best posts, I've ever read on this forum. I was looked over for a promotion one time and I wasn't afraid to ask why and vent my frustration. At the same time, I was also given some legitimate reasons as to why.

[JimH5]

I've also been in a job where I was told I would have to accept less money than I had been earning, and less than I thought I deserved. I gave my notice and quit, and ended up in a different job earning even less-- but I never regretted standing up for myself.

 

The shelf life of a pro athlete is very short. So if Cravy is denied $400+K in salary at age 27 (the difference between AAA and the MLB minimum), he's not going to be able to make that up. The time is now for fringe guys.

 

That he ripped the organization in public just a matter of there being reporters in the room. None of us have to deal with that in our lives.

 

Stearns filled the roster based on things other than spring training performance. That's fine, he can do that, and it's probably prudent.

 

But if he lied to players about their chances of making the team, that's either a one time mistake, or a character flaw, and I applaud Cravy for airing his grievances.

[Thurston Fluff]

I've also been in a job where I was told I would have to accept less money than I had been earning, and less than I thought I deserved. I gave my notice and quit, and ended up in a different job earning even less-- but I never regretted standing up for myself.

 

The shelf life of a pro athlete is very short. So if Cravy is denied $400+K in salary at age 27 (the difference between AAA and the MLB minimum), he's not going to be able to make that up. The time is now for fringe guys.

 

That he ripped the organization in public just a matter of there being reporters in the room. None of us have to deal with that in our lives.

 

Stearns filled the roster based on things other than spring training performance. That's fine, he can do that, and it's probably prudent.

 

But if he lied to players about their chances of making the team, that's either a one time mistake, or a character flaw, and I applaud Cravy for airing his grievances.

 

This is what I worry about. I hope it was just a mistake made by a relatively inexperienced, young GM and manager. IF they learn from it fine. I expected some growing pains from both of them. But if they do this again it's a pattern that worries me.

[rickh150]

He doesn't think he's marginal. He thinks he is better than at least one of the guys who made the team and who will make 6 times more in salary than he will.

 

And he thought it was an open competition that he won. He thought he was lied to.

 

Our default position is that Stearns and the front office are good, honest and capable. And they probably are. But please keep open the possibility that they're not. Or at least that they dropped it on this roster decision--otherwise we get into circular sycophantic thinking that the GM is right because he's the GM.

 

What I really don't get is the "keep your mouth shut and do as you're told" kind of thinking from other posters that none of us would comply with in our own lives. Cravy should be no different.

 

He'll report to AAA. But I think it's good that he opened up about his treatment. And I also think Stearns reacted well to Cravy's comments.

 

 

Agree with all of this....

He won the job by pitching better than about everyone on staff.

He obviously knew that some guys were on the team regardless of ST stats because of contract or out of options, no doubt.

He did not know that his performance mattered so little when guys in the same boat as he

(Jungmann, Barnes), unproven with options, performed worse or much worse and are on the roster.

Stearns should have made it known that these players were not on equal playing fields, that performance was just a factor in evaluation. That is where it starts and ends with me. For all that Melvin was or wasn't, he was a pretty straight shooter with players; I don't remember such attitude from multiple cut players during the last part of ST.

[adambr2]

[attachment=0]C8X1jyVXcAEkmLe.jpg[/attachment]

[RobertR]

I expect Zach Davies had a sympathetic ear in regards to Cravy. It's not the first time that I think Stearns sometimes forgets he's managing people.

[bork]

It probably was a mistake to say there was an open competition. It would appear that very little was decided based on spring training, except Aguilar.

[ZBTMP]

He did not know that his performance mattered so little when guys in the same boat as he

(Jungmann, Barnes), unproven with options, performed worse or much worse and are on the roster.

 

Barnes isnt even close to the same boat as Cravy. His ZIPs ERA projection is a full run better and the best on our team.

 

Im not sure you can objectively say he pitched better than Jungmann. Jungmann walks a lot of guys but still had a lower FIP.

 

I have no idea what was said to Cravy, but I would presume the Brewers told him they expected him to compete for a spot. And the fact that he made it to the final weekend of spring training means he was, in fact, competing for a spot. They had other options they liked better.

 

I don't have a problem with calling out the management if they are wrong or unethical, but unless they gave Cravy definitive metrics he needed to reach to make the team Stearns wasnt wrong and Cravy should be handling it better.

[LouisEly]

JimH5, your two posts on this page are spot-on.

 

For those who are playing the "go get a 9-5 job and see how hard it is" card:

 

1) I guarantee that you (complain) about your job and your boss out loud at work

B) but you don't have reporters sitting at your desk listening to every word you say, especially after you've been told that you've been passed over for a promotion by other people, some of whom you've outperformed,

3) the difference between you getting promoted and not promoted isn't $2500/day,

4) and remember that until he had major league experience he was probably making a lot less money that you were. Minor league baseball - for players with no major league experience - isn't exactly known for exorbitant salaries.

[LouisEly]

Barnes isnt even close to the same boat as Cravy. His ZIPs ERA projection is a full run better and the best on our team.

 

Im not sure you can objectively say he pitched better than Jungmann. Jungmann walks a lot of guys but still had a lower FIP.

 

I have no idea what was said to Cravy, but I would presume the Brewers told him they expected him to compete for a spot. And the fact that he made it to the final weekend of spring training means he was, in fact, competing for a spot. They had other options they liked better.

 

I don't have a problem with calling out the management if they are wrong or unethical, but unless they gave Cravy definitive metrics he needed to reach to make the team Stearns wasnt wrong and Cravy should be handling it better.

Games aren't won or lost based on projections; they are won and lost based on performance. Cravy not only performed better in spring training, he performed (arguably) better (out of the bullpen) than Barnes last season.

 

FIP, IMO, irrationally overvalues home runs. Cravy last year gave up three home runs; two were in the Great American Bandbox to Joey Votto and Brandon Phillips, the other was at Colorado to Charlie Blackmon (who hit 35 last year). (Barnes gave up one HR, at home to Jose Lobaton.) That, IMO, is going to irrationally inflate Cravy's ZIPs projections.

[MrTPlush]

I don't openly complain about my boss so my boss can hear me. Cravy was making stupid comments that were irrational. He has every right to be upset, but he is assuming he had no chance to make the team and acted like he far outperformed everyone(also assuming that was how everything was decided...probably wasn't).

 

I guess it just seems weird for him to be so upset. It isn't like he was a veteran spring training invite and they dumped him last second leaving him scrambling to find an MLB job. He was stuck with the Brewers regardless. He came in, worked hard, did well, and didn't do enough to make the team. Now go to AAA, perform, and wait for your turn just like dozens of other players.

 

Calling out your organization and claiming they aren't treating you like a human because you thought you should have made the team and they didn't is just wrong. Is he out of options now? If so I can't wait till next spring. Then if he makes the team over someone who performed better we can see what he thinks of that.

[And That]

1) I guarantee that you (complain) about your job and your boss out loud at work

I don't. I like my job. And my boss.

 

The whole thing with comparing promotions between the baseball world and the office world is that there is no AAA for office work. It's an apples and oranges situation that Cravy is experiencing from someone who just got passed over for a mid management position.

 

If he wants to quit, that's unfortunate, but it is his decision. I just hope he realizes that there almost certainly won't be a $550,000 job a phone call away in his next career.