2017 bullpen

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Monty,

 

Good writeup. I like your perspective. Its easy forget that a full season for a RP can be considered a small sample. 1/3 of a season is really a small sample.

 

So, the question remains, when do you pull the trigger to replace a RP? I think this is where you need to use all the data available: Scouting, secondary / advanced statistics, Manager feedback to evaluate the RP. Its probably why the Brewers have not made rash decisions in the Bullpen.

 

I'm not sure I totally agree with how patient the Brewers have been. The risk is low in losing a player. I'd have to say Torres, Scahill, Drake, Peralta, Hughes are all interchangeable with Blazek, Cravy, Ramsey, Wilkerson, Espino. If you lose a couple due to waivers, so be it. Plus we have prospects that we will need to start making room for.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Even the "bad" players in the majors are extremely good, and are capable of putting together strings of great baseball. Most relievers are in the 'pen because they couldn't cut it as starters, so they have some flaws. So, like a lot of #4/5 starters, they'll have times where they look good and times that they don't. It's not that it doesn't matter who you put there, but we could dump one of our guys and they could be lights out for the rest of the season for someone else, and we could grab someone who has been lights out for another team only to have them look like garbage for us.

 

Amen, which is why I am glad the Brewers are giving their in-house options (Hader, Espino) a chance before deciding to trade off some assets to another club for the inherent unpredictability of any bullpen arm.

 

If we are still contending and our guys still aren't cutting it then I'm not against a trade, but would hope we make every effort to give the guys already in the organization a shot first.

[SomewhereInTime]

Drake and Torres can be sent packing any day now.

[SomewhereInTime]

Hader and Espino called up, Counsel sticks with Drake and Torres, awesome.

[trwi7]

I think Espino sucks but yeah, Counsell has an option besides just Barnes and Kneel bit seems afraid to use him.

 

Counsell is showing himself to not be much of a young player's manager.

[adambr2]

The way in which Hader is being used is just really unfortunate, and he belongs back on the farm if it's going to continue. Presumably we did not bring him up to pitch from the pen for his development or so he could shoot the breeze in the pen with MLB relievers, we brought him up to help a terrible pen win games.

 

3rd straight day of relief work is typically reserved for shutdown closers or other elite relievers which Drake is obviously not. How Counsell could make that decision with at least 3 fresh options in a tie 11th inning game is beyond me.

[adambr2]

While I do like Counsell and think he is a good manager for this club, I personally do not think that managing a bullpen is one of his strengths at all. It's true that he doesn't have great personnel to work with, but you don't get to 18 bullpen losses in June without pulling some wrong strings along the way. Too many times there have been some tactical mistakes -- trying to use Peralta for multiple innings, pulling a reliever quickly for an inferior option only to have it blow up, ignoring the young pitchers in favor of overworked journeyman options.

 

I still do not understand why Drake was used a 3rd day in a row with other fresh options available. It's one thing to use him -- you're going to have to use everyone at some point. But a 3rd straight day? We brought in guys like Hader to give us better options to use than the ones that have proven multiple times to be very poor options. If your trust in Hader and Espino is so low that you would prefer to use one of your worst relievers for a 3rd consecutive game in a tie extra inning game, then we have done nothing to fix the problem no matter what additional relievers we've added to the roster.

[trwi7]

If your trust in Hader and Espino is so low that you would prefer to use one of your worst relievers for a 3rd consecutive game in a tie extra inning game, then we have done nothing to fix the problem no matter what additional relievers we've added to the roster.

 

That's because the problem at that point is Counsell. Like I said, I think Espino is a terrible pitcher but I would use him before I would use another terrible pitcher for a third straight day.

 

Hader is baffling. He's obviously not a finished product and struggles to throw strikes sometimes but he has the stuff to get hitters out and Counsell seems afraid to use him. That's 100% on Counsell and it's infuriating.

[SomewhereInTime]

While I do like Counsell and think he is a good manager for this club, I personally do not think that managing a bullpen is one of his strengths at all. It's true that he doesn't have great personnel to work with, but you don't get to 18 bullpen losses in June without pulling some wrong strings along the way. Too many times there have been some tactical mistakes -- trying to use Peralta for multiple innings, pulling a reliever quickly for an inferior option only to have it blow up, ignoring the young pitchers in favor of overworked journeyman options.

 

I still do not understand why Drake was used a 3rd day in a row with other fresh options available. It's one thing to use him -- you're going to have to use everyone at some point. But a 3rd straight day? We brought in guys like Hader to give us better options to use than the ones that have proven multiple times to be very poor options. If your trust in Hader and Espino is so low that you would prefer to use one of your worst relievers for a 3rd consecutive game in a tie extra inning game, then we have done nothing to fix the problem no matter what additional relievers we've added to the roster.

 

Agreed, and the real problem is we haven't even seen the full effects yet of the criminal level of overuse of some of our bullpen arms. Wait till Knebal inevitably breaks down. If he survives this season, it'll probably happen next year with a lengthy DL stint. It's not only the ineffectiveness that has me calling for five new bullpen arms, its the level of use. You have to be shuffling new arms in all season long if use a bullpen like this.

 

There's also too many one inning only guys in the pen right now. Knebal, Barnes, Torres, Drake, Hughes, Peralta (I list him because due to ineffectiveness he usually has to be pulled before he can get through more than an inning) The common five inning start means at least half the pen has to be used to cover the rest of the game.

[JohnBriggs12]

What will be the answer to the latest failures of Torres and Drake? Peralta will likely join Feliz and Scahill as ex-Brewers. That's how they roll. Drake and Torres are immune from any repercussions.

 

Who did the Padres rather see in extra innings? An overworked career minor leaguer like Drake or one of the top lefty prospects in baseball?

 

Why on earth isn't Wang being brought up? Of course Counsell wouldn't use him either.

[MrTPlush]

#FreeTheWang

[Never Outhustled]

Wang had a good ERA, but his supporting numbers suggest he's just another guy. I'd still give him a shot though. Torres was trash in spring training and continues to be trash now.

[jerichoholicninja]

Stearns has given Craig crap to work with in the bullpen so I can't be surprised that crap results are happening. However, the fact that Craig continues to use that crap the same way is on him. I don't get to watch all that many games but when I look at the box score and see at least 2 out of 3 days Torres pitches and gives up runs, it baffles me that he still has a job, let alone pitching that often.

[SomewhereInTime]

No bullpen issues to report today. Quality day.

[superfly]

If your trust in Hader and Espino is so low that you would prefer to use one of your worst relievers for a 3rd consecutive game in a tie extra inning game, then we have done nothing to fix the problem no matter what additional relievers we've added to the roster.

 

Like I said, I think Espino is a terrible pitcher but I would use him before I would use another terrible pitcher for a third straight day.

 

Trying to ride the hot hand most likely. Considering how bad the pen has been, he can't really go right whichever way he goes, so not sure I can blame him in this instance.

[danzig6767]

Stearns has given Craig crap to work with in the bullpen so I can't be surprised that crap results are happening. However, the fact that Craig continues to use that crap the same way is on him. I don't get to watch all that many games but when I look at the box score and see at least 2 out of 3 days Torres pitches and gives up runs, it baffles me that he still has a job, let alone pitching that often.

Yea

 

Torres-- 4.95 ERA/1.651 WHIP

 

Drake-- 5.26 ERA/1.481 WHIP

 

Peralta-- 6.66 ERA/1.633 WHIP

 

These guys have to eat innings and given we seem to almost always be in close games, they will pitch in close games and to often it's lead to or contributed to losses.

 

I'd rather Stearns cut his losses with at least one or two of these guys and try seeing if someone from the minors can do better. Would have to work hard at being worse.

[reillymcshane]

As a note, per Adam McCalvy, Tyler Cravy is said to be 'not close to returning' from his DL stint in Colorado Springs. So don't expect him anytime soon. And once he's back, he'll likely need a few appearances to get back into shape.

 

http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/237241722/when-will-injured-ryan-braun-return-to-brewers/

[adambr2]

After the last stink fest by the pen I'm starting to lean more toward the DFA crowd on a few of these guys.

 

I had hope for Drake, but he can go. He's terrible against righties, and the one thing he does sort of well, get lefties out, is something we have no reason to think Wang wouldn't be better at, who should be his direct replacement.

 

Torres can join Drake, that's about all I have to say about him.

 

I'm OK with just waiting another outing or two on Peralta, but he's on wafer thin ice. And for God's sake stop having him try to throw multiple innings if you want to try to make this work. Otherwise, you might as well go ahead and DFA him.

 

At least some good has come out of patience with these guys as Hughes has been pitching much better as of late and should be pretty safe for now.

 

The minors options are still there -- Lopez, Blazek, perhaps even Archer or Wilkerson. Espino in the pen doesn't make a lot of sense to me. He seems like your classic AAAA emergency 6th starter. There are better options for pen help, not that Counsell will be wilung to use them. Which, on that note with a guy like Hader, I'd be a little ticked if I was Stearns. Not only is Hader not being used to help, but he's not being developed.

[adambr2]

And I do want to reiterate that I do generally like Counsell as a manager, I just disagree with much of his bullpen management.

 

I know it's not just him. Many managers if the game is hanging in the balance tend to gravitate toward the proven option over the unknown option, even if the proven option is just proven to suck. I have no idea why that is.

[NYChez]

As of June 18, the Brewers had already played 15 games in June where the game was tied or the Brewers had a lead of 3 runs or fewer in the 8th inning or later. That stretch of close, winnable games would take a toll on any bullpen. I don't remember a stretch like this since 1988-90 (when the Brewers consistently overused Dan Plesac).

[Roderick]

No bullpen issues to report today. Quality day.

 

Well.... if Counsell won't use Hader now for a day or two because he had him warming up for two innings, I can still take a little negative out of the pen for today (halfblue?).

[JohnBriggs12]

No matter how many guys they have in the pen, Counsell ignores 2 of them using them only when they are hopelessly behind which this year is not all that often. For some reason he trusts Drake and Torres will come around as Hughes has lately but they simply cannot afford to wait on guys to get it together who are being used in high leverage situations. Believe it or not but this is a playoff caliber team who if they don't make it, it will largely because of a short bullpen.

 

If they went out and picked up a veteran with the chops to handle the pressure of big time games, it could be the difference between wasting a magical offensive year or making a postseason, something that's happened just twice in 35 years. With the payroll as low as it is, they can afford to take on a salary especially one without a long term commitment. That's why Robertson makes the most sense to me. Acquiring him won't cost top line prospects, just some money which they have plenty of as fans start showing up in droves.

[ZBTMP]

He's terrible against righties, and the one thing he does sort of well, get lefties out, is something we have no reason to think Wang wouldn't be better at, who should be his direct replacement.

 

K% Vs LHB

Drake 25.3% vs. MLB hitters

Wang 12.5% vs. AAA hitters

Im going to speculate that David Stearns disagrees with your conclusion.

[colbyjack]

I've been told there could be another familiar face/name added to the bullpen soon.

[ZBTMP]

I've been told there could be another familiar face/name added to the bullpen soon.

 

Re-acquire K-Rod?